White Oak trunk split....

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It would certainly be prudent to put a temporary rope in place of a cable about 16 feet up, until it can be cabled n rodded professionally, IMO.

It most certainly needs attention asap if targets are within range of it?

jomoco
 
Pictures can be deceiving but I think it is one tree (just 2 stem from very young) and appears to be an excellent candidate for cabling and bracing. Definitely something that needs to be addressed. As the two stems have grown over the years they just push bark against bark so they do not get any wood union in the center (called included bark). Qualified arborist should be contacted to do an evaluation. Cables get installed about 2/3rds of the way from the crotch to the top of the canopy so if the arborist starts talking about doing the work off of a ladder, send him packing. Of course, it all depends whether you want to have a tree there.
 
Regardless of whether it's one tree or two trees....it still looks like it's been that was for a long time, even if you never noticed it before and I'd bet that both halves are each still pretty solid wood. The arborist you have coming will give you the best advice since he will be there in person. It could have been two trees or it could have been two leads from the same tree that have just grown together. The result is the same. They grow together and push against each other. It doesn't look to me like it was ever one solid tree from the crotch down that just split. The bark would be different.
 
.....possible that nothing needs to be done as ATH mentioned? Or because the tree is so large it is likely that in the least pruning needs to be done, and at most pruning and cabling?........
First, I like the reply you received. I agree with their assessment the best next step is an on-site evaluation. Get a price to have them come do that for you. Check qualifications and go with them if all checks out (again, just because they don't have that TRAQ I mentioned doesn't mean that aren't "qualified"...just means that haven't taken the course/passed the test...that is a 3 day course, so they really have to see added value to do that.).

Secondly, a point of clarification: I am not saying nothing needs to be done - just that likelihood of failure might not be so imminent. I did say those other practices are beneficial (and I'll add to that an echo of oldmaple's statement about the cable being properly installed at 2/3 up the tree...lower that that does very little good).

The first step in assessing risk is determining likelihood of failure. ISA's system breaks that into 4 categories: "improbable, possible, probable and imminent" (there are other valid systems out there too, so if the arborist you hire doesn't use those exact terms, I wouldn't get too excited...as long as they communicate clearly with you).
BASED ON THESE 4 PICTURES (reserving the right to change my mind with more information), I'd put that into the "possible" category. From there, you look at likelihood of impacting a target (will it hit your house, the pool, patio furniture, a person, etc...). Look at direction it is likely to fall, prevailing winds, etc... Then you look at the consequence of that failure: Will it break your patio furniture vs. kill somebody, for example. Combine all of those to assign a "risk rating". The arborist job is NOT to tell you "this is too risky" or "this is nothing to worry about". The arborist's job is to give you that information so YOU can make a decision based on the level of risk YOU are willing to tolerate. (FYI: Based on a "possible" likelihood of failure, the worst risk rating any tree would receive is "moderate" - and that only if the likelihood of impacting the target is "high" and the consequence of impacting that specific target is "severe" (both the highest risk ratings in those respective categories).

The next step is to offer practices to reduce the risk to a level you are willing to tolerate. Sometimes the only way to do that is remove a tree. Sometimes pruning away some limbs will change the targets the tree will impact if it fails. Some practices reduce the likelihood of failure. Maybe it is as simple as "move the kids' sing set". Part of this step is to give you an "after action risk rating". If you have those things done, what is your new risk rating?

Write a check...that service is all done now.

The final step is to have work done based on balancing cost vs. your risk tolerance.

Often, it makes sense to have the arborist who evaluated your tree complete the work because they know what needs to be done. However, you don't want to make that a given when you hire them for the evaluation. The evaluation service should stand alone and should not be just an excuse for them to "bid work". You may want to seek other bids for the work (and the evaluation/prescriptions should adequately describe that work). There may even be circumstances where it makes sense to hire the evaluating company to oversee the work be completed by a 3rd party...be open-minded.

(sorry to be long-winded)
 
Your Oak may look like one single tree due to it's size & age, however it is a twin. I'm not surprised being an Oak that their is no inosculation between the two. If you flush cut the stump one would find two star shaped piths indicating a twin tree. ATH's words above are wise, walk away from someone selling you on fear. This Oak can be mitigated & enjoyed for many years to come.
 
I'm with ATH too. Have it evaluated but...even when I'm bidding work...I always tell my potential customers to get other bids and input. It's your tree, your risk and your money. I'm a "no pressure" salesman. Take your time. There is nothing imminent here (from what we can tell). Go with the person that YOU feel most comfortable with. But make sure the company you hire is fully insured. Look into whatever local or state laws apply. I've recently learned from this site that some states don't require work comp insurance for having 5 or less employees and it may leave the customer liable in the event of an accident (surprising to me). Educate yourself. Your tree probably isn't going anywhere any time soon.
 
I also agree, it does not matter if it was 6 trees grown together or 1 tree, don't care. Most know what happens when it opens up like this. Whether it be a crotch or a union juncture (pretty sure they are the same?), same end result, now that it's split wide open.
I would try saving the tree myself, and I believe it can be saved with no problems. I do not think it is in any immediate eminent danger, as I said several on my property just like this for many years.
I thought we were offering advice, not arguing over twins or one single tree, seems to me they've taken the advice? Now they have to weigh the cost of fixing/repairing or a take down, then it's done.
An arborist would actually NEVER know until they've seen it in person, as someone earlier said "pictures can be deceptive," We don't know the stress on the tree or the possible potential "collateral damage" to just leave alone, hopefully she'll post again after the meeting with the arborist and let us know?
 
I guess where the confusion lay for me was not whether or not it was one or two trees. I wanted to know if it was coming down within hours. Some on here seemed to be saying basically that the split was always there, though covered by bark. So I wasn't sure if that meant that just because some ice had formed where the two trees (if it is two, which I never thought it was until I posted on here) and pushed the trees apart 1/2 an inch, if that made much difference, from say Monday, when I didn't know about the split. I was pretty frantically calling people to come look at it, when I had finally released my hands from the fistfulls of hair that I had grabbed on either side of my head, after my husband had pointed it out. I've had two tree service guys come up today. One said it was one tree, the other said it was two. Neither seemed too concerned about the safety of it. One was fine with taking it down if that's what we wanted. The other said he'd do whatever, cable it, pune it or take it all down. So I'm pretty much in the same place I was yesterday. There is supposed to be an arborist coming up tomorrow. Of course I will post with an update.
 
Yes, we have a wood stove. My husband and I also discussed cabling and both felt that if that is necessary to keep the tree, we likely will not be keeping it. If it can't stand on it's own then it shouldn't be standing. It's a beautiful tree and white oak are scarce around here but we wouldn't want to take a chance of it crashing down on the neighbours. But that said, I'll still wait to see what the guy has to say tomorrow.
 
I will disagree on the importance of whether it's one tree or two. In a two tree scenario you simply have two structurally sound trees naturally growing away from each other, causing one set of potential problems down the road. In that case we are looking at a cracked bark callous.

In a single stem scenario we are looking at a syructural defect atthe base of the tree, a much different scenario with much more immediate consequences.

I'm glad to see the OP getting a good arborist out to make an on site assesssment, but to say one tree or two doesn't matter just isn't so.
 
I have had three people come up and look at the tree. Two of them said it was one tree. One said it was two trees. Regrdeless, no one seemed to worried about it coming down any time soon as two mentioned they would be able to do the work in the spring. All three said that in order to keep the tree, a cable would be necessary. That made the decision for us. We don't want to have a tree that needs a cable to be safe. It is a large, beautiful tree, but we can't justify cabling and trimming it and still feeling we need to keep an eye on it for basically the same price as taking it down and never having to worry about it again. Also, by taking it down we are almost breaking even as far as not having to buy firewood for next year.
Thank you for all the input guys! The group was so divided I almost wish I could have taken bets but it seems like even now I can't be sure if it is one tree or two. We will record the tree coming down. Can post here if you would like? I guess then we will know for sure if it is one or two trees. Thanks again.
 
I have had three people come up and look at the tree. Two of them said it was one tree. One said it was two trees. Regrdeless, no one seemed to worried about it coming down any time soon as two mentioned they would be able to do the work in the spring. All three said that in order to keep the tree, a cable would be necessary. That made the decision for us. We don't want to have a tree that needs a cable to be safe. It is a large, beautiful tree, but we can't justify cabling and trimming it and still feeling we need to keep an eye on it for basically the same price as taking it down and never having to worry about it again. Also, by taking it down we are almost breaking even as far as not having to buy firewood for next year.
Thank you for all the input guys! The group was so divided I almost wish I could have taken bets but it seems like even now I can't be sure if it is one tree or two. We will record the tree coming down. Can post here if you would like? I guess then we will know for sure if it is one or two trees. Thanks again.
Well if it makes you feel any better I cant for the life of me figure out why a tree with a crack in the base is Ok with anyone. Common sense. The fact that they said do it in the spring tells me in no uncertain terms that it is a problem for them. Also how can anyone say it is two trees? It is one tree with a double trunk .
 
For what it's worth, I just had a similar tree removed from my yard a week and a half ago. Very similar split on one side, but solid (but bulging/built-up) on the other side. The split appeared to run nearly down to the ground, and once removed, this was confirmed; you can see the bottom of the trunk piece in the third picture from the earlier thread, as well as the one with the chainsaws, below. You can see the tree poking up from behind the garage, pre-removal.

I have yet to dissect the bottom 6-7' or so of the tree, since the crane guy set it in the middle of the yard and my dog thinks it is the best play structure ever, so I don't have a cross-section showing the extent of the split further up the trunk, but the consensus on this tree per the arborists before and after removal was that cabling would have been advisable and sufficient, had the tree not died off on me first due to issues unrelated to the split.



Cut and paste from the earlier thread in the Chainsaw forum.

****************************************

Earlier this week, I had a large two-trunk white oak removed. Today, it was blocked up, halved/quartered, and furnished two dump trailer loads of firewood for another AS member's home heating needs. I ended up keeping a cord and a half or so for myself, and I'm guessing he ended up with 3.75 cords for his share.











I ran 14.5 tanks though this rebuilt no-base-gasket 10mm 044 today, so I guess it's finally broken in now. My hands are still tingling, four hours later. Running side-by-side with a 441c, the differences were more than obvious. Between the fuel consumption and the vibes, I can see why that 441c is as popular as it seems to be. Sure, you can certainly lean on the 044 a lot more, and this one would be fine with an 8t and a 20" bar, but man do I feel beat!

Went and got Ethiopian for dinner with my wife, got a book and a beverage lined up, so now it's fireplace time!

 
I am still fairly amazed that we are still having this two versus one debate. Look at the pics, and if you aren't an arborist shut up and learn a little. To the OP, stay away from the two "arborists" that thinkthat is one tree. Probably the same guys reccomending removal.This is a classic case of uneducated tree hacks feeding a homeowner's fears and removing TWO perfectly viable trees. Jeff
 
I am still fairly amazed that we are still having this two versus one debate. Look at the pics, and if you aren't an arborist shut up and learn a little. To the OP, stay away from the two "arborists" that thinkthat is one tree. Probably the same guys reccomending removal.This is a classic case of uneducated tree hacks feeding a homeowner's fears and removing TWO perfectly viable trees. Jeff

Good point but ultimately, it's up to the OP and her husband. Obviously, they don't want to pay to get it cabled and pruned. If it were my tree(s), I'd go ahead and have it taken down as well. It's all about piece of mind.

Other than the tree I had in my yard that was dead at the base, the other two would probably had grown fine. However, knowing that my neighbor's otherwise two healthy oaks falling down during Hurricane IRENE and missing my house by 10 feet (branches hit the deck) and the fact my backyard became a pool during big rain storms, I didn't want to take the chance. I would never had been able to live with myself if my children (or neighbors) got injured or killed.
 
JollyLogger, question from a nobody here - if the OP is concerned enough to have the tree(s) removed, why not leave the stem she likes the best and cut the other? If it turns out to be one tree then finish the task, or take whatever action that requires. If it is two trees, then generally, won't the remaining tree deal with the stump of the other over time, or no? In the woods, I have cut one and left the other a few times with decent size trees that are touching and have always wondered if I was fooling myself thinking the saved tree could deal with the stump. I am not going to live long enough to know specifically, but I still wonder. Ron
 
Install cable orange line. Prune left trunk more, as it is sprawling more. The right trunk is more symmetrical. Cuts at yellow lines.

~4 hours to prune, ~$250 for the cable. Materials are guaranteed >30 years. I've seen cables in >38 years that looked new, with NO followup mtc.
This should cost ~$1000 USD (hubby cleans up/cuts firewood from brush), and buy years or decades of safe useful life. No reason for fear if this is done.
A non-cable alternative would be to reduce the left trunk a lot more. Either way, I would not postpone the work for long.
split white oak qc paint.jpg

When you do cost/benefit analysis, consider landscape value of the tree. I've appraised smaller oaks at >$20,000 USD. Plenty of firewood available from trees with no value (dead, forest thinning, etc.)
mknox, does this make sense?
You've had some good advice from arborists, some fearmongering, and some limited advice from firewood harvesters. Easy to tell the difference.
 
Ron, that is absolutely another option, with a caveat. These two trees have formed a symbiant relationship. Their root syThere iststems are intertwind mutually supportive. Both trees are healthy from all appearances and no where near the end if their life cycle.
There is inly one way to 100% protect your property from tree damage, and that is to remove all of your trees. Not an environment I care to live in. A re§ponsible arborist uses his knowledge and experience to mitigate risks, not eliminate them.Given the right storm, or the wrong storm as it were, any tree can fail.
That being said,
 

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