Who Took My Freedom???

[PB]

+1 Absolutely right Phil,

Maybe Plant Bio or someone can say why this happens? It may be human impact or just certain weather conditions, that allow a bug infestation too get out of control, but that's what happens and they are only trying to slow it down by limiting the movement of wood in infected areas.

Here's in Maine we have/had Tameracks (hatmatack) Eastern Larch that was once the king of ship building lumber. The stuff lasted forever underwater and even exposed was pretty good. The Larch Beetle put an end too the commercial viability of that tree. Still too this day their greying skeletons can still be seen standing in boggy areas, as a testiment too the durability of the species. They are starting to make a comeback and I for one hope they do. It's an excellent tree with a long history of medicinal, and commercial uses.

I am not an entomologist, but I will take a stab at it. You can think of it as population control. If you were confined to a small area with limited resources and unable to move freely about, would you have 10 kids? Kind of the same with the EAB. If it is localized it controls itself in a way, albeit not good by any means but it spreads much slower. If you take these insects to fresh wood, they multiply like rabbits until they are saturated again. This goes on and on. If I remember correctly the EAB is not native and has been introduced from a different continent from infected wood. The same principle that Mantis was complaining about, freedom. Some country didn't want to take away someone's "freedom" and stop the spread of the bug now we have it here.

The weather does also help with insect control in general. A cold winter will usually kill off a large portion of the insects, but with global warming this is having less of an effect each year. Look at the pine forests of Alaska for an example of this.

Again, i am not an entomolgist, just general ecology.

 

[computeruser]

You don't get it do you? It's being done for a reason and a damn good one.

If you haven't seen the impact of EAB, maybe you should come to Michigan for a little while. How would YOU like it if 30 to 40% of the trees in YOUR woods were dying and there is nothing you can do about it.

Ed

Ed is right. The damage that EAB has done has been incredible, and has to be seen to be believed.

The secondary consequences of EAB are what worry me the most. The spread of invasive trees and understory shrubs filling in where ash stands once were found is already becoming evident. Entire forest ecosystems have been turned upside-down. And what are the odds that a hardwood forest that gets overrun with honeysuckle and ailanthus will suddenly repair itself? Heck, I can hardly kill that stuff with Garlon and a chainsaw!

I dislike government intervention into personal decision-making at least as much as anyone else, but there are certain areas where the externalities of a personal choice are just too great (and oftentimes too far removed from the person making the personal choice) to be left unregulated. EAB, poisoning the groundwater, filling wetlands, stuff like this needs to be addressed in a way that balances personal freedom and considers the objective wisdom gained through past experience.

 

[secureland]

Ed is right. The damage that EAB has done has been incredible, and has to be seen to be believed.

The secondary consequences of EAB are what worry me the most. The spread of invasive trees and understory shrubs filling in where ash stands once were found is already becoming evident. Entire forest ecosystems have been turned upside-down. And what are the odds that a hardwood forest that gets overrun with honeysuckle and ailanthus will suddenly repair itself? Heck, I can hardly kill that stuff with Garlon and a chainsaw!

I dislike government intervention into personal decision-making at least as much as anyone else, but there are certain areas where the externalities of a personal choice are just too great (and oftentimes too far removed from the person making the personal choice) to be left unregulated. EAB, poisoning the groundwater, filling wetlands, stuff like this needs to be addressed in a way that balances personal freedom and considers the objective wisdom gained through past experience.

The future will bring on many more legal issues like this
For example, to what extent will people be criminalized if they are hurting the environment that their neighbor uses? Second-hand smoke has been targeted and is consistent with this concept. In the future the regulations for the individual (not solely the corporation) will increase the personal responsibility for maintaining good water tables. Water is becoming a precious commodity and that makes it a good example. Be prepared to be nice, in a way you didn't knoiw you could.

Bill

 

[Fuzly]

I believe Wisconsin has a similar law. My brother was coming over to get some wood for camping, we had to get out a map to see if he was legal.

Yep-50 miles

DNR pushed for the state rule and U.S. Forest Service adopted a similar emergency rule for the National Forests here.

I thought it was a little over the top too-until I saw the photos from Michigan.

Personally, I think we should fill the St. Lawrence in with dirt and use our own wood. Look at all the invasive species that come in through the Great Lakes and end up in and around them-sea lamprey, zebra mussell, EAB, and countless more. Just one man's opinion, I may be wrong.

 

[treemandan]

I guess you are all blind to close to the tree that you cant see the forest.I understand that there is a problem with insects.but there is also a movement to stop us from burning wood.How the hell by stoping me from cutting wood.and bringing it over 50 miles and then burning it going to stop the spread of these insects?

Do you really think they are trying to stop wood burning? I don't think that is quite possible but...

 

[mantis]

I am not an entomologist, but I will take a stab at it. You can think of it as population control. If you were confined to a small area with limited resources and unable to move freely about, would you have 10 kids? Kind of the same with the EAB. If it is localized it controls itself in a way, albeit not good by any means but it spreads much slower. If you take these insects to fresh wood, they multiply like rabbits until they are saturated again. This goes on and on. If I remember correctly the EAB is not native and has been introduced from a different continent from infected wood. The same principle that Mantis was complaining about, freedom. Some country didn't want to take away someone's "freedom" and stop the spread of the bug now we have it here.

The weather does also help with insect control in general. A cold winter will usually kill off a large portion of the insects, but with global warming this is having less of an effect each year. Look at the pine forests of Alaska for an example of this.

Again, i am not an entomolgist, just general ecology.

Global warming? You by that one? No wonder why you would be for this.
The government has never solved a problem only created them.It is up to us to fix this and this is not it.This is not something that just happened.It has been a problem for years.and now with heating oil at $4.37 a gallon NOW they want to fix it.Just like those who are against outside wood boilers.All the same

 

[PB]

Global warming? You by that one? No wonder why you would be for this.
The government has never solved a problem only created them.It is up to us to fix this and this is not it.This is not something that just happened.It has been a problem for years.and now with heating oil at $4.37 a gallon NOW they want to fix it.Just like those who are against outside wood boilers.All the same

Look at the documented, scientific studies of the pine decline in Alaska if you doubt me.

So you say we should fix it? How does spreading the EAB around fix it? You are the problem, not the solution.

I could talk until I am blue in the face, but you are convinced that the government is out to get you. Who is that over your shoulder, big brother?

 

[mantis]

Look at the documented, scientific studies of the pine decline in Alaska if you doubt me.

So you say we should fix it? How does spreading the EAB around fix it? You are the problem, not the solution.

I could talk until I am blue in the face, but you are convinced that the government is out to get you. Who is that over your shoulder, big brother?

I got your documents right here buddy Do me a favor and hold your breath until I get back to ya.Tree hugger. Mark my words and you will see.

 

[ropensaddle]

Freedom is not an excuse to ruin things for everyone. I would
think I would comply out of concern for the health of the woods.
We could say, who took my freedom to play with radioactive isotopes
so my garden gets enough rain! I hate losing freedoms as much as anyone
and don't understand some of the seemingly stupid laws however, usually
there is some kinda reason for them.

 

[PB]

I got your documents right here buddy Do me a favor and hold your breath until I get back to ya.Tree hugger. Mark my words and you will see.

Waiting patiently. Prove me wrong. I will need citations though.

Do you even know what you are proving me wrong on? I get the feeling that you feel you are right and find anything/anyone that will agree with you. A treehugger I may be, but I know when I am wrong and in this case I am not.

An angry person is seldom reasonable, a reasonable person is seldom angry.

 

[ray benson]

If you can locate a copy of regulation it might be more informative than the newspaper article. In one sentence they state that there's a ban on all non treated firewood; whatever that means. In another it says that they're banning importing firewood from other states. That seems like it may be a sound practice considering what the ash borer has done in Michigan and here in Ohio. Hardly a rape of your individual rights. It would be interesting to know more.
Phil

Here is that regulation.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/regulations/2359.html

 

[J.Walker]

There are billboards on I-86 warning of fines. I am not sure where you are near, but these types of boards are all over the PA/NY border from both states.

PlantBiologist; The town of Bristol, NY where I live has no billboards at all.... well maybe on the ski lift towers at Bristol Mountain.
I was thinking about this restriction today while removing some dead wood from a customers yard. If the DEC checked the bed of my pickup truck they would lock-it-up and quarantine it, it's full of debris!
We do try to clean our tools inbetween jobs, but the truck beds always seem forgotten. We need to be more carefull.
I wonder if their is some type of economic relief offered by my state for this hardship?

 

[secureland]

I wonder if their is some type of economic relief offered by my state for this hardship?

There easily could be, they just have to find some folks to pay and the money will gladly be redistributed.

The Empire State and the management at Albany Inc. thank you for your business.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

With freedom comes responsibility, and when the masses aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, regulations are born to force them to be responsible.

Ian

 

[Gologit]

With freedom comes responsibility, and when the masses aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, regulations are born to force them to be responsible.

Ian

True. Unfortunate...but true.

 

[2dogs]

With freedom comes responsibility, and when the masses aren't responsible enough to do the right thing, regulations are born to force them to be responsible.

Ian

Well spoken. Err typed, processed...whatever.

Here in Cali we have major problems with pitch canker and pine bark beetles. Preventing the transport of trees or firewood where pitch canker is suspected helps stop the spread of this incureable didease. Common tools like chainsaws need to be disinfected after use on a cankered tree.

Here is a link re pitch canker.
http://ceres.ca.gov/foreststeward/html/PPC.html

 

[2dogs]

Mantis your profile says you are a LEO. Kinda strange talk for that type of job.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

No No, LEO is his sign... I'm a Sagittarius.

Ian

 

[2dogs]

No No, LEO is his sign... I'm a Sagittarius.

Ian

You lookin for trouble mister?

 

[SRT-Tech]

no big deal really, get all the permits, set up a portable kiln (really easy to build, kerosene or propane heater inside a canvas tent, stack your wood, heat up for two hours, done - take it home)

we have a major portion of our forests in BC killed by pine beetles....i sure dont want some firewood hack cutting wood and transporting it around the province.....