Winches--Best models??

[bushinspector]

I was thinking about mounting a winch on a reciever hitch and have connections on the rest of our equipment. The idea was to move it to the equipment as needed. What size, type, and speed would be needed? Most of the trees that we cut is not over 20" dbh and would be pulling them on a 14 foot trailer.

 

[Patrick62]

If you are pulling them onto a trailer, then do what everyone else does. Put the winch on the trailer! Usually you put a battery there and it works like a charm. Would be lots-o-better than what I did last year:

had to load some long heavy logs on flatbed trailer. Used the jeep as I figured that the winch would come in handy. With the trailer hitched I had to use a winch block on a tree to reverse the direction and then jack knife the trailer to get a reasonable shot at it. It worked, but lots of setting up.

-Pat

 

[bushinspector]

But being the (not) so bright guy that I think I am. Was thinking about also be able to use the same winch to be able to switch it over to our 1 ton and use it to pull logs on that unit as well. Then it could be put it into the reciever hitch and use it on the pickup to pull the two wheel drive pickup when it got stuck!!!

What would be better worm drive or plantary? How large (ton) would it need to be?

 

[GRAYSTONE]

Check the "hauling in wood my style" thread for pictures of my jeep and trailer.
I have a Warn 6000 lb.winch mounted on the rear of my Jeep. It has lots of pulling power. The trick is to pull from an elevated point so you are tending to lift the log to keep it from snaging. You can also double the line with a snatch block which doubles the pulling power to 12,000 lbs. I have attached an up close picture of my setup. Note winch control box is mounted under the hood where it stays dry. I have a 50' extension lead as well for the control so I can get into the bush where the logs are with the cable.

 

[infomet]

Receiver hitches are not desogned for much side loading, be careful.
Note the diagonal braces on the Graystone rig.

 

[bushinspector]

All of our reciever hitches are not aftermarket and are built with much heaver steel than what you would buy out of a box. I like the set up Graystone has and what type of drive does it need? I am not sharp enough to tell from his pictures.

 

[bushinspector]

I really likes Graystone's set up. Just looking at it make my back feels much better!!

 

[infomet]

My concern about side loading , even if the receiver is strong, is that all the bending moment imposed by a pull from the side is trying to bend the carrier bar between the winch baseplate and the receiver. Pulling on a heavy log off to the side could generate some mean bending load, especially if the carrier bar is a little long to get out from under a vehicle.

I'll also remind everyone that getting thousands of pounds pull at any reasonable line speed from a 12V winch, for any significant time is a dicey operation. I have used a Ramsey 5000 lb unit on my 16' flatbed for several years. It works, but is brutal on the battery. If you pull 5500 lb at 1 ft/sec, you are using 10hp! If you pull 1100 pounds at 1 ft/sec, that's 2hp. 2hp (1500Watts) at 12V draws 125Amps!! And that's assuming 100% efficiency!
Real life efficiency would be closer to 60%!

Your car battery just can't do this very long at all!

I've not measured pulling loads or current in my rig, but even 1HP requires 750/12=62A! And at these currents, the effective voltage will be lower, maybe 10V or less, because of battery internal resistance, so the real current will be even higher!

Bottom line is to not expect production service from a ilike this. I take a generator and charger to keep my battery up while I load 6-8 logs on my trailer, but it's not something one would want to do all the time. For this kind of power, a PTO or hydraulic winch is far superior, and more expensive.

I think the best way to deal with the little electric rig is to put a large deep cycle battery at the winch AND set up some HEAVY cables (welding cable) to the vehicle battery. Then you can idle the vehicle and get a reasonable charge between pulls. One could tie the winch cables to the vehicle frame and make a reasonably convenient way to connect to the winch when necessary.

If anyone is interested in more numbers, let me know.

 

[GRAYSTONE]

12 Volt Winches

I always keep the truck running when winching to be sure the battery does not go dead. I also carry an emergency battery power pack with me just in case.

If you use a pulley on the winch line for 2 to 1 advantage you will reduce the amperage draw on the battery by at least half. I am using 1 gauge cable from the battery to the winch. The bigger the wire the better when using high DC loads.

 

[bushinspector]

I do understand your concerns for side loading and is a very good point. I was thinking about straight on pulling. After pulling the logs on, I could have a set up under the trailer with guides on it to unload the trailer as well. My plan was to put a rolling bar at the back of the trailer to help out with the logs getting them up on the trailer from the ground. When I was unloading the trailer the cable would go underneath, around the rolling bar and back to the load. It is amazing what one will think about when its two o'clock in the morning and you can't sleep.

 

[Adkpk]

I use a Warn, works fine for me.

 

[kennertree]

http://www.winchesplus.com/winchmenu.html
check out one of these gas powered dudes. Hope the link works, if it soesnt just copy and paste it in your browser.

 

[bushinspector]

Link works, I never even heard of this type. Looks like a great idea. Would be much, much better than electric. The cost don't look to bad as well.

 

[Adkpk]

You have heard of a Lewis winch? Might work in your case. Then you can go around it.

 

[bushinspector]

No I have not heard of a Lewis wench. I will do a search and see what comes up.

 

[burlman]

lewis winch

a definate can't go wrong purchase. I have had my lewis winch for 15 years now, I couldn't tell you how many places or uses we have put that rig through. actually had it out today for the first removal of the season. works great for pulling over leaners, and retrieving logs from gullies. use a big cc. saw I have mine on an old stihl 44. the beauty is that you can take it anywhere, you are not battery dependent. like a truck mount. last fall it saved us from a miserable stuggle, when we dropped a 1000 pound moose in a muddy lake, spooled out a 100ft. of cable, wrapped it around the horns and fired up the ol' saw and hauled that critter right up on shore. I see they are advertised in the Bailie's catalog

 

[bushinspector]

After seeing the pics I have seen them. Has anyone had any safety issues with them?

 

[burlman]

lewis safety

so far I haven't had any death defyiny expiriances with mine. They tend to wind the cable uneven when under heavy loads, so it mangles the cable, and kinks it. I have broke the cable on several occasions either from pinching it between log and rock, or usually from pulling with a compromised cable, as in to lazy to change cable it will do for this job. I usually change cables at least 2 times a year depending on what happens to it. It has never really flown back wildly when it broke. I only spool on a 100 ft length. they say you can put 150ft on there but it would have to roll on perfectly, which is impossible under load. you have to pay attention to this or it can jamb between the spool and the housing if so then you got a big'of a mess to pull it out. releasing a load under tension is a little tricky too. there is a manual brake to hold the drum while you unscrew the bolt that drives the sprocket wheel to the drum.

 

[Positrack]

I don't know much about using winches to load timber (I just yank what needs to be yanked with the truck), but I've been an offroad nut for years and have a lot of experience with winches in that arena. I would recommend running dual batts if you plan on doing lots of regular, extended winching. Even with relatively little load on the line, elec. winches still draw a lot of juice. If you are planning on running one on the trailer or rear end of the truck, I'd use the heaviest cables I could get to reduce voltage drop (which will burn up winch motors) which will occur over the long distance. I use 0 gauge to my 12K Warn, and it's front mounted. Another handy trick I picked up is the use of a choke cable connected to the carb/TB that can be used to set the motor at a nice high idle (about 1500-2000 RPM) while winching to get the alt. cranking and the voltage up. Standard alternators actually put out very little at idle speed, and if the engine is at normal idle, most of the amperage will come straight out of the battery(ies).

For the purposes of pulling logs, I would imagine a 6 or 8K planetary would be plenty and would be the fastest (line speed) simple option. A PTO winch would be really sweet since you would have all the power you'd ever need, any speed you want, and no electrical hassles, but that would be complex, expensive, and certainly not portable.

I am not a fan of receiver mounted winches having seen their mounts tweak and twist as a result of shock loading (which you may well encounter if a big log takes an unexpected roll or something) or even just a decent side-pull. Plus, if you're talking about a class III hitch, the receiver is probably rated at no more than 6K at best (straight pull) and is not designed for side loading. I know a lot of people run 'em, but that is MHO.

Edit: If you do decide on an electric and you really want the Caddy winch for your application, go with a Warn 8274. They are the fastest standard winch Warn sells, they are indestructible, and they hold something like 150' of 5/16" cable (wire rope). However, they are $$$. Otherwise I'd go with a plain old M6000. They're cheap, compact, relatively fast, and probably more than strong enough for your purposes.

 

[avalancher]

here is what I use, a Warn 3700 portable winch with one deep cycle battery. You can move the winch where you want it, to the side of your trailer to pull logs to the truck, to the front of your truck if you are stuck, what ever you have in mind. With a snatch block you double your pulling power, and I have used the winch for hours on one charge. Its been rare that I have run out of juice before I dragged the wood to the trailer and into the back, and then only because I was dragging through brush or the wood was some big stuff.