Winter money

[logan]

Hey guys, im 22years old and im kinda new on this forum. I have got alot of useful info off here so far!! Ok here is the deal i have a custom fencing buisness i do in the Spring, Summer and Fall and cut and sell firewood in the mean time. But when the snow is flying i cant build. So i have got a place to log that has some Walnut, Oak, and Maple all in the bottoms by a creek. So i was wondering if it would play to go ahead to cut the logs out and sell them or not. I have a Chevy 2500HD and a 25ft gooseneck trailer and a Caterpillar 216B to get the logs out. i was just kinda wondering on the log prices and what not and how to figure up how many board feet is in a log. i have cut hedge post in the past and made money off of that but there is limited hedge in my part of the country. Keep in mind im in Northern Missouri.

thanks for the held!

 

[Circle B MN]

Hey guys, im 22years old and im kinda new on this forum. I have got alot of useful info off here so far!! Ok here is the deal i have a custom fencing buisness i do in the Spring, Summer and Fall and cut and sell firewood in the mean time. But when the snow is flying i cant build. So i have got a place to log that has some Walnut, Oak, and Maple all in the bottoms by a creek. So i was wondering if it would play to go ahead to cut the logs out and sell them or not. I have a Chevy 2500HD and a 25ft gooseneck trailer and a Caterpillar 216B to get the logs out. i was just kinda wondering on the log prices and what not and how to figure up how many board feet is in a log. i have cut hedge post in the past and made money off of that but there is limited hedge in my part of the country. Keep in mind im in Northern Missouri.

thanks for the held!

I think on a small scale setup such as yours ( and mine ) you will get your arse handed to you trying to cut saw logs. Personally I would cut for firewood and market it to a high end niche.

 

[lone wolf]

I think on a small scale setup such as yours ( and mine ) you will get your arse handed to you trying to cut saw logs. Personally I would cut for firewood and market it to a high end niche.

I agree just dont make firewood out of Walnut keep it and mill it.

 

[bitzer]

Just ####in log it! Why not?! Call your local mills for pricing and ask about specs and trim. You may want to talk to someone about maximizing your boardfootage per tree. The mill will scale it when it gets there. You'd better be proficient with a saw and critical thinking if you do it alone. Situations will present themselves daily. If you've got the time anyway, get after it. You'll have some fun one way or another.

 

[madhatte]

I got roped into selling a walnut here a year or so ago. They're not native to this region, and the mills don't know anything about them, so there's no market at all. I spent a long time trying to find a buyer, all the while being pushed from behind by the seller. It was a tricky ##### to fall, and bucking was a hassle too (yard tree covered 6" deep with ivy), and the car trailer I had to haul with was overloaded with the first 16'. I ended up not making a cent, burning an assload of calories, and learning heaps about moving small quantities of wood around. It was a good experience, if not a profitable one. My opinion is that the worst that can happen if you try to sell these logs is that you will learn a trick or two, and make mistakes now that you won't have to make later. I say give it a shot.

 

[serial feller]

You can make money on walnut in Missouri, especially up north, if the trees are straight, have few branches or other defects, and have some decent diameter. To calculate board feet on walnut requires an extra step. The mills are only interested in the dark heart wood, not the light colored sap ring inside of the bark. Southern Mo walnut trees tend to have a larger sap ring than northern Mo trees, so this is in your favor. To calculate your board feet measure the average diameter of the heart wood and add 1 1/2 inches. The walnut buyers I deal with use the Doyle Log Rule. Doyle Log Scale - Courtesy of TinyTIMBERS Some walnut buyers will send out a semi for free if you have 3000 BF and are within a reasonable distance of the mill. You will have to have all of the logs skidded to a truck-accessible place and lined up like ducks in a row to be graded by the buyer.

Establish a buyer before you cut anything. Find out what length logs they want, how much trim allowance they require, and what is the minimum diameter they will accept. Also remember the importance of diameter. You will kill yourself cutting small diameter trees and trying to make money, the volume just isn't there and the price per board foot is lower with smaller trees. If you have the equipment to deliver to the mills, don't forget to figure fuel cost, wear and tear and extra time into the bid. I would recommend you not deliver if you can avoid it. Even if the mill charges 10c per BF to come get it, that's not a bad deal, and eliminates risk for you.

Good luck!

 

[Wagnerwerks]

You can make money on walnut in Missouri, especially up north, if the trees are straight, have few branches or other defects, and have some decent diameter. To calculate board feet on walnut requires an extra step. The mills are only interested in the dark heart wood, not the light colored sap ring inside of the bark. Southern Mo walnut trees tend to have a larger sap ring than northern Mo trees, so this is in your favor. To calculate your board feet measure the average diameter of the heart wood and add 1 1/2 inches. The walnut buyers I deal with use the Doyle Log Rule. Doyle Log Scale - Courtesy of TinyTIMBERS Some walnut buyers will send out a semi for free if you have 3000 BF and are within a reasonable distance of the mill. You will have to have all of the logs skidded to a truck-accessible place and lined up like ducks in a row to be graded by the buyer.

Establish a buyer before you cut anything. Find out what length logs they want, how much trim allowance they require, and what is the minimum diameter they will accept. Also remember the importance of diameter. You will kill yourself cutting small diameter trees and trying to make money, the volume just isn't there and the price per board foot is lower with smaller trees. If you have the equipment to deliver to the mills, don't forget to figure fuel cost, wear and tear and extra time into the bid. I would recommend you not deliver if you can avoid it. Even if the mill charges 10c per BF to come get it, that's not a bad deal, and eliminates risk for you.

Good luck!

This is Great advice. I live on a farmette with approx 80 wooded acres. We sell logs on a small scale to a local band saw mill. We haul or he comes and gets them. Either way, we make out very well in a similar scale to the OP's question.

 

[serial feller]

One other thing to remember when cutting walnut, or any logs for that matter...... Clean up your hinges. By this I mean take a few seconds and cut off the hinge and make the butt log pretty, not all nasty looking and jagged where the hinge broke. Some of the higher end butt logs are exported and the foreign buyers like pretty logs. The local sawmill can see past the hinge but they will have to clean it up later if it is to be exported. Your local buyer will respect you for the extra effort, and it is important to be in good standing with your buyer.

 

[asdf4240]

After reading this everyone keeps referring to the value of Walnut and since I just cut up a black walnut tree for firewood I'm now wondering if I didn't make a big mistake by keeping the trunk intact. So my question is what was the value of this tree trunk had I kept it whole?

Here's the deal: I was getting some free firewood for myself which was Pennsylvania Black Walnut. The trunk of the tree was about 18" in diameter and pretty straight for 8 feet. I was told by the owner that several people came and looked at the tree and wanted it but no one ever came back for it. So I didn't think it was worth much as timber. Because I was by myself, I cut the trunk into large piece which I could handle, roughly 20" in length. I was able to get 5 large pieces. After I got home, I decide to try and sell the 5 large pieces just to help recover some cost. So far I've sold 3 for $40/each and have 2 people interested in the remaining 2. But again, I keep wondering what the value of the whole trunk was?

Thanks in advance and sorry for using black walnut for firewood.

 

[serial feller]

asdf4240, Walnut can be tricky when determining the value. The 1st thing to consider is how far away the buyer is. When dealing with a single tree it might not be worth the time and fuel to deliver it, but then again, it might be very worth it. Lets say you could have had one 8 foot log out of your tree and the grain of the wood was not disturbed by the 1st branch. You said it was 18" so the small end of that log would have been about 16-17". Subtract for the bark and the sap ring and you might have a 14" log. On the Doyle scale that comes out to 50 board feet. It is to small to be a veneer log so it would grade as a saw log. Just to throw out a high average number for walnut saw logs we'll say it brings $1.50 per BF or $75.00. If it measured 15" that comes to 60 BF or $90.00.

Disclaimer: without seeing the tree or knowing your local market, the price I came up with might be off by a considerable amount. To put it another way I might be talking out of my... :fart:

 

[Dalmatian90]

I was told by the owner that several people came and looked at the tree and wanted it but no one ever came back for it.

I you answered your own question. 18" dbh I'm guessing those folks wanted the tree in another 25 to 30 years...might be real valuable someday, but that day was not today.

 

[asdf4240]

I you answered your own question. 18" dbh I'm guessing those folks wanted the tree in another 25 to 30 years...might be real valuable someday, but that day was not today.

The tree was downed by Hurricane Irene in September. I'm not ruthless enough to cut down a healthy tree.

asdf4240, Walnut can be tricky when determining the value. The 1st thing to consider is how far away the buyer is. When dealing with a single tree it might not be worth the time and fuel to deliver it, but then again, it might be very worth it. Lets say you could have had one 8 foot log out of your tree and the grain of the wood was not disturbed by the 1st branch. You said it was 18" so the small end of that log would have been about 16-17". Subtract for the bark and the sap ring and you might have a 14" log. On the Doyle scale that comes out to 50 board feet. It is to small to be a veneer log so it would grade as a saw log. Just to throw out a high average number for walnut saw logs we'll say it brings $1.50 per BF or $75.00. If it measured 15" that comes to 60 BF or $90.00.

Disclaimer: without seeing the tree or knowing your local market, the price I came up with might be off by a considerable amount. To put it another way I might be talking out of my... :fart:

Serial Feller thanks for your response. I'm just trying to figure out if I made a huge mistake or not by cutting it up. Even if I didn't cut it up I don't know how I would have gotten the log in my truck. I'm guessing the log would have weighed between 400lbs plus. And I went prepared for firewood not lumber. I'm just confused because as previously stated so far I've made $120 off of 3 log chucks and have more interested in the rest. I just posted them on craigslist. I didn't have a buyer.

 

[serial feller]

Sounds like you made a smart move selling the small lengths as specialty pieces. I imagine it would harder to move 30 trees in that manner, but I've never tried. Good work, you got a good price.

 

[bitzer]

walnut is severly over-rated.

 

[serial feller]

If by "severely over rated" you mean "most people who have walnut trees are delusional when it comes to their actual value" then I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[bitzer]

If by "severely over rated" you mean "most people who have walnut trees are delusional when it comes to their actual value" then I wholeheartedly agree.

Thats what I mean. Money really grows on that tree. I had a guy trying to sell me and anyone else he could find, one log out of his backyard that was probably full of nails and all kinds of other bull#### acting like it was made out of gold. "But its walnut," he said. I told him its going to be awfully hard finding someone to buy one log. He never did. He ended up burning it in the same backyard.


Now #######it, will the ####in OP show his puss around here again and let us know what the hell he is going to do for a change?! There have been so many of these "What should I do," type of threads over the years that have been given boatloads of great advice and the orginal bastard who posted it never comes back to even wink his ####### at us. WTF is going to happen next?

 

[serial feller]

:agree2:

What the hell Logan? Where are you?

Maybe we should start red reppin people who don't have the manners to be a part of the conversation they started. Take back the freebie rep someone gave him. There's another point. Maybe giving free rep to newbs isn't such a good idea. Make 'em earn it. The good ones will earn rep fast enough.

 

[paccity]

Thats what I mean. Money really grows on that tree. I had a guy trying to sell me and anyone else he could find, one log out of his backyard that was probably full of nails and all kinds of other bull#### acting like it was made out of gold. "But its walnut," he said. I told him its going to be awfully hard finding someone to buy one log. He never did. He ended up burning it in the same backyard.


Now #######it, will the ####in OP show his puss around here again and let us know what the hell he is going to do for a change?! There have been so many of these "What should I do," type of threads over the years that have been given boatloads of great advice and the orginal bastard who posted it never comes back to even wink his ####### at us. WTF is going to happen next?

yup over rated, 95+% of the stuff we remove go's to firewood. some have been nice log's. it usualy takes an exceptional tree and the ocational burl. good rant bitzer. lol.