Woodworking question

[Haywire Haywood]

Hey guys I have a question about router bit size. My wife does stained glass and wants me to build her a box to store her glass in. It'll be made of the Cedar I milled earlier this summer. Basically just a open front box with vertical dividers so she can separate the different colors of glass.

I bought some 3/16 hardboard for dividers and will be using a router to cut slots in the top bottom and back of the box for them to fit into. I'll be gluing them in.

My question is this: Do I buy a 3/16 router bit or a 7/32 so I don't have to be spot on with my measurements for the hardboard to fit? I've found both online. Also, I have been looking at upcut spiral for this as opposed to a regular double flute straight bit. Whiteside also sells a "veining" bit that looks like a stubby spiral. I suppose the slots I will be cutting will be about 1/4" deep.

Any suggestions as for type and size for this project?

thanks,
Ian

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Spiral up cut bits tend to pull splinters up along the top edge. Spiral down cut bits will give you a much cleaner top edge but they are limited to how deep they can cut and still clear the chips. You may have to take two pases with a bit that small.

If you want the joints tight, I would get the 3/16" and use sandpaper wrapped around a blade of some sort to adjust the slot wider as needed. If you are less concerned about their appearance then get the 7/32".

Good luck.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Thanks Aggie, I think I'm going to get the 7/32 to give me a little room for error.

This box is going to be 18" front to back and my boards are 7-8" wide. I am going to be joining them with biscuits to make the 18". Should I just go with 2 wide boards and a narrow one or rip them down and do several narrow boards? I'm thinking about possible cupping.

thanks,
Ian

 

[Ford's Lawncare]

Glue smaller ones, not biscuits. Alternate the end grain as well, so if one is arched up, the next one will be arch down. Once it is dry you can scrape the access glue off and plane it with a hand plane if you don't have a power planer. I would also suggest getting a carbide tipped router bit for your dado's.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I ended up ordering a Freud 7/32 double flute carbide straight bit.

Ford, why not the biscuits? I got a plate jointer for my birthday a few days ago just for this project... LOL I haven't had much luck in previous projects just gluing it together. I suppose I could buy a finger joint bit for the router and glue it up that way but those things are pricey.

Ian

 

[Woodsurfer]

I was going to suggest that you put calipers on the hardboard to see what the thickness really is... Many sheet products are undersize, like 3/4" advertised may actually be 0.7", 1/8" may be 0.10", etc. If your board actually measured 0.175" for example, a 3/16" bit would give a sweet fit. On the other hand if the hardboard is actually 0.188", a 3/16" slot would be too tight.

I do stained glass, I know your wife will appreciate the organized storage.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I was going to suggest that you put calipers on the hardboard to see what the thickness really is...

I didn't think of that but I just mic'd it and it came out fat. 189-190

Ian

 

[Ford's Lawncare]

I've just never used biscuits in a situation like that before. I would think they would just add extra reinforcement, but at the same time just take longer to make, because it is all going to be glued together anyway. It also helps to put weight on it if it is not going to be used as soon as it dries. A couple cinder blocks help the warping quite a bit. Good luck!

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Ok, thanks. It'll be a new toy to use tho and a little extra reinforcement won't hurt and hopefully it'll help with alignment.

Ian

 

[stonykill]

I've just never used biscuits in a situation like that before. I would think they would just add extra reinforcement, but at the same time just take longer to make, because it is all going to be glued together anyway. It also helps to put weight on it if it is not going to be used as soon as it dries. A couple cinder blocks help the warping quite a bit. Good luck!

using biscuits takes literally seconds to do. It not only adds reinforcement, but it also aligns the boards so you shouldn't need to plane anything after glue ups. Just a light sanding. I build furniture for a living, and biscuit joint EVERY board. Not putting biscuits in is asking for the joint to break later on. The biscuits swell from the moisture in the glue, creating a very tight joint.

I've been biscuit jointing since biscuit jointers were introduced 15 to 20 years ago. Never had one fail.

 

[Husky137]

Too true, I've had the wood grain fail before the biscuit joint failed.

 

[tanker]

cutting slots

You should also be able to purchase a slot cutting bit from whitesides. this would also allow you to put the boards together with spines.

 

[Ford's Lawncare]

Biscuits are good in some situations, however glue is stronger then wood. If I am getting this right, the objective is to glue something like six 3 inch pieces to make something 18" wide. Ideally you would want to start with someting thicker then the finshed thickness and put it through a jointer then planer to the final thickness.

 

[Ford's Lawncare]

The only time I ever use biscuits in furniture is on face frames and corners if they are not mitered, and if they are, splines.(I don't mean face frame corners, more like cornerboards)

 

[stonykill]

Thanks Aggie, I think I'm going to get the 7/32 to give me a little room for error.

This box is going to be 18" front to back and my boards are 7-8" wide. I am going to be joining them with biscuits to make the 18". Should I just go with 2 wide boards and a narrow one or rip them down and do several narrow boards? I'm thinking about possible cupping.

thanks,
Ian

If your boards are good and dry, I'd glue up 2 wide boards, or possibly 3. If they aren't sufficiently dry, no matter what you do they will cup, warp , twist and crack.
Do you have a moisture meter? You meantioned you milled them this summer. If they have been indoors for a few months, after being out for a few, they are most likely dry, but a moisture meter is the only way to tell for sure. I dry my wood outside for a month or more depending on species, then this time of year they are in the basement where the forced hot air heat exchanger is from the owb. I get my softwoods and birch down to 6 % pretty quickly, then bring them to the workshop where they acclimate to the surrounding.
If oyu are going to mill, and don't have a moisture meter, its a good investment.

 

[dustytools]

using biscuits takes literally seconds to do. It not only adds reinforcement, but it also aligns the boards so you shouldn't need to plane anything after glue ups. Just a light sanding. I build furniture for a living, and biscuit joint EVERY board. Not putting biscuits in is asking for the joint to break later on. The biscuits swell from the moisture in the glue, creating a very tight joint.

I've been biscuit jointing since biscuit jointers were introduced 15 to 20 years ago. Never had one fail.

+1!! Biscuits are very quick and simple to use, butt joints are several times stronger when using them. Ian I have a small router table that is yours for the taking, Ill bring it to you next time we meet. Also I have a slew of router bits that you can use and experiment with incase you want to try some out before buying them.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

They've been milled since early summer and were stickered till maybe september. They've been stacked in the loft of my barn since. I think I'll rip them down to maybe 4 or 5 inches and alternate end grains like was suggested.

Terry, I already have a router table, but thanks for the offer. That was my Christmas present I think 2 years ago. I bought the router (Bosch 1617EVS) and the better half bought the Bosch table to go with it. The plan then was to make some molding for the house but that is one project that I let drop by the wayside. I got a set of bargain basement bits and a couple decent bits that I bought for specific projects. I have a Makita 12" planer that works pretty well but when it came to a table saw, space and money ran out.

Ian

 

[woodshop]

Spiral up cut bits tend to pull splinters up along the top edge. Spiral down cut bits will give you a much cleaner top edge but they are limited to how deep they can cut and still clear the chips. You may have to take two pases with a bit that small.

ditto on the spiral down cut bits... I use them all the time for very clean slots. But then Hayward you said you already bought a double fluted strait. That works too, and is usually less expensive.

I have a biscuit jointer and use it often... they do give you a very strong joint as was said... the moisture in the glue swells the biscuit before it sets. However, Fine Woodworking had an article about gluing up boards to make a wide table top or whatever, and after lots of trial and error and testing, they decided on most glue-ups they were just not necessary if you have two good jointed edges. The glue already dries harder than the wood... period. If you try and break the boards apart they will not separate at the glue line, they will break at weaker points in the wood. In those cases the biscuits were just not needed, kinda like overkill.

That said, I often use the biscuits even where they are overkill, just because I like using them.

 

[dustytools]

I have a very old (8" I think) table saw in the shop collecting dust. It has a small table and needs a new on/off switch but it could be incorporated into a bench or something similar to make the table bigger. Ill let you have it if you want it. Might come in handy till you get a bigger/better one.

 

[woodshop]

I have a very old (8" I think) table saw in the shop collecting dust. It has a small table and needs a new on/off switch but it could be incorporated into a bench or something similar to make the table bigger. Ill let you have it if you want it. Might come in handy till you get a bigger/better one.

...geeez dusty, you're given away tools left and right here... come on up here to PA with all that stuff