Would you allow access to small skidder to pull loads across your property?

[zogger]

a hundred bucks?

Bet some of the people in here have "POSTED: NO TRESSPASSING!!" signs every 10' around their property.
I personally would never say no right up front as a matter of course.
I'd walk the part of the lot he has already cut and then decide- if I was as anal as all that.

But I'm not. I'd walk the route he wants to use, designate the rub trees and the trees to be avoided like quality growing timber, then let the guy earn a living.
If the guy was as bad as all that, he wouldn't STILL be cutting. He'd have been shut down already.

In this economy we need every man who is willing to work TO work, and more to the point, to earn a PROFIT so he can then spend the money.

I would have thought a forum full of wood nuts would be far more inclined to help a logger than this. Typical "NOT IN MY BACK YARD" thinking. People want things to happen, for things to change and evolve, just not within 50 miles of where THEY are.

Bugs me.

I don't care how careful or how small this skidder is, he is talking giving the property owner only a hundred dollars after making some big ruts and damage through a REAL SMALL acreage. He'll be destroying a significant part of the original posters future wood. He indicated he didn't just reject it out of hand, he said he bought wood from the guy before and he seems nice and all, it is just the reality on the ground. To me, a hundred dollars wouldn't be enough to replace what would get ruined. Now if the guy had a hundred acres and not just ten, then maybe, sure, plenty left over.

OR, if the timber guy would agree on delivery at some future date of a lot of similar wood, something that would compensate, then...go ahead.

Hundred bucks, nope, and I think you are off base a little thinking the guys here are anti woods work or work in general. They are just looking at it as small property owners.

But, then again, maybe the poster wouldn't mind an eventual access jeep road there. If the skidder guy can use a blade and back out and flatten it when he is done, so it isn't two foot deep ruts.

 

[Oldtimer]

Not replying directly @ the OP. Just a "general" post directed towards the super concerned.
Seems silly to be so worried when a tornado, micro-burst, fire, bugs, or snow & ice could destroy the entire lot in the next few months.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

another potential issue that's not be brought up, is the legal side of things

if 80 acre lot is land locked (if it wasn't they wouldn't need access across your land?) and you offer an access to it, esp. if you SELL an access across your land, you may very well have the start of an access road that becomes a permanent feature on your small lot.

I'd check with a lawyer if it was even a remote possibility.

If it's not land locked, why aren't they using the current access?

 

[Art Vandelay]

Bet some of the people in here have "POSTED: NO TRESSPASSING!!" signs every 10' around their property.
I personally would never say no right up front as a matter of course.
I'd walk the part of the lot he has already cut and then decide- if I was as anal as all that.

But I'm not. I'd walk the route he wants to use, designate the rub trees and the trees to be avoided like quality growing timber, then let the guy earn a living.
If the guy was as bad as all that, he wouldn't STILL be cutting. He'd have been shut down already.

In this economy we need every man who is willing to work TO work, and more to the point, to earn a PROFIT so he can then spend the money.

I would have thought a forum full of wood nuts would be far more inclined to help a logger than this. Typical "NOT IN MY BACK YARD" thinking. People want things to happen, for things to change and evolve, just not within 50 miles of where THEY are.

Bugs me.

You still ain't making a lick of sense. Nobody is trying to prevent the man from working. The job can obviously be done without crossing this guys property, it will only be more profitable(and if it's only worth a hundred bucks to the guy it must not be a major cost effective route anyway). Do you have any idea how big a ten acre plot of land is? It ain't exactly 50 miles across. It's basically right it the guys back yard. Get a grip on life, jeez.


Why would a guy bid a job beforehand without getting permission from the homeowner to cross anyway? Last I checked, you need all your ducks in a row to turn in a competitive bid. Sounds like amateur hour to me. :msp_rolleyes:

 

[zogger]

That could happen as well

Not replying directly @ the OP. Just a "general" post directed towards the super concerned.
Seems silly to be so worried when a tornado, micro-burst, fire, bugs, or snow & ice could destroy the entire lot in the next few months.

You are correct, you never know. But it is still a fact that heavy steel mechanized equipment ruts out property. The only semi left in good shape logging I have seen, that didn't leave much damage, was done with some big horses.

And yes, I have worked both logging and large scale firewood, and up in your neck of the woods so to speak, new england (back when I was a young phart). Not even close to what you do as per scale, but have been around it and seen it, back then, and today. The property right across the street gets logged every year with harvesters and all sorts of big equipment. The owner went way out of his way and insisted they build proper roads and clean up afterwards. And by proper roads, I mean they bring in a lot of dumptruck loads of crushed chert to maintain the roads after they get torn up, they don't just reflatten it and stick slash in the ruts. It's clay here so ruts left turn into equipment killers later on when they dry out, it gets rock hard.

And the logging company comes back every year, so even with that expense, they must still be making money. They are just doing it the proper way, for real long term access and work.

I think the controversy here is because of the scale of potential damage versus that low ball offer. The guy offered a hundred bucks to have his land torn up..well. he only has ten acres! Ya, stuff will grow back and so on, but that is a serious lowball offer right into the insulting range. If the logger had offered say "I'll deliver you a coupla cords of decent tops you can buck up a year for the next five years" or something like that, that's more like it.

Really man, we are all wood harvesting and making a buck friendly here, that logger guy is out to lunch on his offer, *in this particular case*, that's all.

 

[camr]

Not replying directly @ the OP. Just a "general" post directed towards the super concerned.
Seems silly to be so worried when a tornado, micro-burst, fire, bugs, or snow & ice could destroy the entire lot in the next few months.

Your logic is highly flawed. The events you reference are unplanned, spontaneous "acts of God" that no man can control. Allowing someone to cut a skid path across your 10 acres of land is the planned "DESTRUCTION" of the property. I emphasize the word destruction based on your own use of the word "destroy" in your post.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

I've generally found that people that think all land should be open or available to any person does not own any themselves.

I used to let people hunt on my property with permission. I had a few basic, what I thought would be common courtesy rules.

1: Leave it as you found it. Meaning, if you pack it in, pack it out. I don't need trash and shells laying around. Bottom line, I don't want to know you were here.

2: Don't block the driveways

3: Don't damage stuff.

After having our barns shot up for target practice, trash everywhere and several trying to run us off because their buddy said they could hunt here we said no more. If that is being unreasonable, so be it.

To say the guy would be out of business if he wasn't legit is just laughable. It sad that you have to be skeptical so much anymore but it IS reality.

I know from past experience if you do a good job you don't have to advertise it, word gets around. Case in point? When I was a kid we didn't have property to cut on. We heard of a local farmer who wanted fencerows cleaned. We LISTENED to what he wanted and cut the wood and drug the brush in the fields in windrows. On wet days we'd walk in so as not to rut up his field. We hauled when it was frozen and helped on brush burn day. After people saw and heard what we did the phone rang off the wall from the coffee shop talk. My Dad had the best line. "Some people say work is a four letter word, but so is lazy."

 

[hamish]

I allowed a small operation access accross my land to get to adjacent property just once, and will never have a skidder near my property ever again. Cant ride my atv anywhere near the skidder travelled, let alone walk. All winter everything was going good, hell even let him set up his landing/yard in one of my field right by the road. Then came spring real fast and the push was on to get everything out before the thaw..........well then I had ruts and damage beyond belief................just so a man could make a living, and mess with mine.

 

[forestryworks]

A good road lies easy on the land. Always. A bad road is a never-ending problem.

 

[H-Ranch]

If the OP built a 20' reinforced concrete wall all the way around his property it STILL doesn't prevent the other guy from working - there is not one single post on this thread that indicates any thought of stopping the work.

By the way, I don't have a single "No Tresspassing" sign on my property.

 

[komatsuvarna]

I probably let him AS LONG AS he fixed it back to as good or better condition as it is now. I understand the guy has to make a living, but I wouldnt want him coming on my place and making a mess of everything and then leaving.

If it was me, Id tell him he could as long as he fixed it back and cleaned up any mess he left or loss along the way, and seed and straw on the way out. If its not worth that to him, then I guess he'd have to find another way in.

If you do end up letting him use it, take pictures of the property before he moves in. That way if it goes sour later on, you have proof of what it looked like before he started. Write a contract too.

 

[komatsuvarna]

A bad road is a never-ending problem.

Thats exactly right.

 

[komatsuvarna]

People want things to happen, for things to change and evolve, just not within 50 miles of where THEY are.

I have to say I agree mostly with old timer.

May be a slight derail, but that quote is exactly right. We install underground utilities, mostly water and sewer. Some people get so pissed when you start digging up their yard, which there is an utility right of way there,,, but 90% of homeowners think they own all the way to the white line in the road. Anyways, people like running water, being able to take a #### in the house, but they dont want 5 feet of there yard tore up to replace 60 year old pipes.

Just last week we were tieing over all the water meters from the old line, to the new line. The very last one on the road, here she comes out raising hell. ''You aint digging up my yard, what are youns doing anyway.'' I listened to her for a few minutes, and said '' fine, you wont have any water after tomorrow because were killing the old line that your still hooked too.'' She stood there for a minute with a stupid look on her face and said, '' ok, you guys just do what you were gonna do.'' So we changed it out and hooked her up to the new line, put fresh rock down in her drive( which is where the meter was we had to dig up) and she was tickled to death. Some people.

 

[lfnh]

A good road lies easy on the land. Always. A bad road is a never-ending problem.

To the OP:

Consulting a state Forester, is an option and usually low cost (maybe free) service.
That might provide you with more complete information on which to base your decision.

Just a thought.

 

[slowp]

A skidder does not ALWAYS rut up the ground. Geesh. You guys must only be around bad loggers. You don't allow skidding when the soils are wet or when they will rut. You stress to the operator that you and others will be watching...mention references in the future. And you have some sort of a written agreement, with specs that can be measured. You walk the little road and mark the right of way. Use paint if you are worried about it getting moved. Discuss any potential problems, and make sure both of you understand what is acceptable and what is not.
Show up and check things. Make sure he's got that front end of the log lifted while moving.

For me, bribing them with cookies worked too.

Just an example of making things work. It is none of my business whether you let the guy use it or not. The negativity and incorrect statements about not being able to skid without rutting needs to be addressed.

An anecdote.
My friend kinda sorta wanted to log the family property, but she was not happy with the two previous jobs. Another friend mentioned an outfit that was logging in the valley. I had worked with them and I also gave a glowing reference. She nervously hired the outfit. They did such a lovely job--with ground machinery, that she said she wished she had more for them to log.

 

[saginaw22]

Well I walked the property yesterday to look at where he was talking about. Well its in the very back of the ten, I think what he wants to do is use and old skidding trail on the north part of the property and reopen it back up. But I'm not sure where he is going pull the wood out from the property owner of the (cut land) or mine. If he wants to pull along the ten the long ways no Way....
but if he what to use the old skidder trail and reopen then I might let him.

Not too sure about using it though, lots of good points about insurance and liability reasons too.......since its just vacant land
i haven't talked to the insurance company about getting it covered....I think i might have to look into that too....

The guy said he was going to call me today, because i wanted to see what was what, and ask a few more questions.

thanks guys

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Another just crossed my mind, if you accept payment for "letting" him use the property does that open one up for more liability? I know it works that way with trailers. Had a buddy "rent" a horse trailer to a girl and while SHE was pulling it it horse got hurt. She sued him for the vet bills and won. Attorney said if he wouldn't have accepted the cash she wouldn't have won. I think I'd ask about that when you talk to your insurance company.

Is he bonded/insured as well? I know this seems crazy to most but you never know how a "favor" can end up being a nightmare. Just ask my friend with the trailer.

 

[JimmyT]

A lot of commercial timber cutters will leave the site looking like a war zone.
If you do decide to say yes make him put a $500 deposit for the damage. He will forfeit the deposit and just move on to the next site. Then you can grade the ruts out and clean up the mess.

 

[mimilkman1]

Not replying directly @ the OP. Just a "general" post directed towards the super concerned.
Seems silly to be so worried when a tornado, micro-burst, fire, bugs, or snow & ice could destroy the entire lot in the next few months.

And my car could get damage from hail. Doesn't mean I am going to let the neighbor kids throw rocks at it either.

Kyle

 

[TreeClimber57]

Not for $100.. I wouldn't.

Now if he is willing to pay the lawyer fees to get a contract written up; stating that all soil/terrain will be returned to original condition and any tree damaged outside of workzone (which would be specified) will be compensated for at $x.xx (you figure out).. and any waterways (if any) which are crossed are returned to original. Maybe have him post a bond of some sort in trust with lawyer to cover any potential work not completed in cleanup ($10,000 might cover it)..

Then.. if he is still willing to go for it.. the $100 may be ok. Otherwise now.