Wraptor climbing- unusual feeling , but worth the extra $$$

[outonalimbts]

We bought the Wraptor this past summer- WOW is the shortest verb I can think of! This thing is great- It comes with 150' of rope, but most of the trees I climb are at least 100' tall, so I called Paul Cox- he sent me 220' more.

The great part is exactly what Paul mentioned to me, inevitably I will be climbing and need to get down for some reason, like I may need a tool that my groundies can't seem to find in the exact place I tell them it is in my truck, or I may need to utilize the facilities. In the old days when I manually climbed everything I would just wait out the day, cursing that I needed to get down just to get right back up in the top of the tree.

Now, I simply rig the ascension line, and repel down. Do what I need to on the ground and feed the wraptor the line, and ride back up to the top of the tree. Simple, fast and efficient.

The only thing that gets me is the feeling- it is strange to be lifted by this machine. I don't mind riding the ball on a crane job, you just sort of fly on up- it feels like you are weightless. If I am manually climbing it is in shorter strides, but the way you hang under this machine is different. Perhaps it is the way your right arm is extended over your head to grip the handle, or perhaps it is the single line ascent that I am not crazy about I'm not sure.

Actually, as I think about it, it's the security I miss- (climbing dynamic using body thrust I am being held up by my lifeline, but with this machine, my lifeline is hanging on it, and I am riding the single line up. ---Of course in a perfect world, this wouldn't be that bad, but in the trees I climb it seems I get to experience that one second heart attack fairly often, a limb breaks and down comes the machine, and I. Not that far usually, but a 7 foot drop a couple of weeks ago really didn't feel too good.

A couple of weeks ago, I climbed and worked on 11 trees in the back yard (in 3 hours, in the afternoon). Most didn't have any branches for the first 60', no problem, just ride on up do my thing and get down. No sweat, easy work.

Thanks Paul for inventing this machine- it sure helps.


:chainsawguy:

 

[treeseer]

" ...the way you hang under this machine is different. Perhaps it is the way your right arm is extended over your head to grip the handle..."

How are you tied into the ring? Any way to shorten that distance? Arm extended did not feel secure to me so I tied in differently.

" or perhaps it is the single line ascent that I am not crazy about I'm not sure. "

That you will get used to.

" in the trees I climb it seems I get to experience that one second heart attack fairly often, a limb breaks and down comes the machine, and I. Not that far usually, but a 7 foot drop a couple of weeks ago really didn't feel too good."

It didn't help the tree, either. This has not happened to me yet knock on trunk. Seeing your TIP and doing the bounce test should prevent this kind of damage to the tree, and potentially thee.

 

[outonalimbts]

Out of sight, tie in point- wraptor

" ... Seeing your TIP and doing the bounce test should prevent this kind of damage to the tree, and potentially thee.

Of course you are correct- the TIP is often out of sight- I have it rigged so my ground crew can lower the machine after I tie in, the rope is over the crotch that I am climbing on. I am fairly light weight- at only 175 lbs- the bounce test doesn't always work to dislodge small twigs.

I may switch rope that came with the machine as well, thinking of going to strictly Arbormaster, as this is what I climb with anyway. I am concerned that the rope that comes with the machine, flattens out over tree branches- Arbormaster doesn't lose shape and isn't so springy either.

But, ultimately with all that I am not so crazy about, this machine is awesome, it saves me anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour every day I use it. To climb up and work in 7 trees manually is a trick in a day, to climb up and work in 11 trees in 3 hours is fantastic.

When I was younger, I may have really soared with this machine, as I am a bit older now my caution is higher, and I am not taking the same kinds of risks- I do it slower, but head to head I am still faster getting up there than a manual climber.

:chainsawguy:

 

[treeseer]

"the TIP is often out of sight- I have it rigged so my ground crew can lower the machine after I tie in, the rope is over the crotch that I am climbing on. I am fairly light weight- at only 175 lbs- the bounce test doesn't always work to dislodge small twigs."

I'm 170 and i have dislodged most everything in the way so far with the bounce test. Don't understand how the wraptor TIP can be out of sight very often if you hit it with the throwbag.

"I may switch rope that came with the machine"

I did this mainly due to weight and bulk--11mm static line now

The springiness was not all bad--slightly rougher ride with the static line.

 

[Koa Man]

Wish there was some way to use it on a tall palm. Getting the rope through the head from the ground would be a problem.

 

[TreeClimber57]

Wish there was some way to use it on a tall palm. Getting the rope through the head from the ground would be a problem.

If you can rope it.. why would wraptor not work? Just wondering.

 

[treeseer]

If you can rope it.. why would wraptor not work? Just wondering.

If the rope rubs the bud the tree can die, for starters...If it misses the middle it might slip off...:tongue:

 

[Koa Man]

It is almost impossible to pull a climbing line through the head of a coconut palm using a throwball line. I have seen many attempts and not one worked. It would be like trying to pull a climbing line through an extremely tight V crotch times 10.

 

[TreeClimber57]

If the rope rubs the bud the tree can die, for starters...If it misses the middle it might slip off...:tongue:

Ok Well I have only ever seen a few palms in my life, let alone work on them.

 

[ropensaddle]

Anyone know the torture of seeing something you can't afford but can't afford not to have

 

[TreeClimber57]

Anyone know the torture of seeing something you can't afford but can't afford not to have

Hmm.. yep.. but I have a fix for that.. gotta figure out how to win lottery.. I figure I only need about maybe half a mil to get what I can't afford not to have.. and another half a mil would get the the things that I don't absoutely need but would love maybe another mil.. and that would round out wife and put a bit in bank Not asking too much am I..

 

[ropensaddle]

Hmm.. yep.. but I have a fix for that.. gotta figure out how to win lottery.. I figure I only need about maybe half a mil to get what I can't afford not to have.. and another half a mil would get the the things that I don't absoutely need but would love maybe another mil.. and that would round out wife and put a bit in bank Not asking too much am I..

Sounds like we have the same retirement strategy

 

[ropetek]

Google informed me that you guys were talking about the Wraptor, so I thought I post again.

I just wanted to add some insight to a couple of the points raised here about the unit we make. #1 Outonalimb states riding a Wraptor "feels weird". I totally agree, I too was raised using a double line and body thrusting up trees and even though I logically know that the rope is rated at 8600 and the Wraptor will support over 4000 it is still a weird feeling, especially as the rope moves through the unit so rapidly you feel "not connected to it". Us older climbers have a harder time getting used to this as we are set in our ways. I have a 24 year old who climbs some now and is 100% comfortable on it, as that is what he knows.

Now to the main point I wanted to address in regards to you falling 7' on your Wraptor. Interesting side note 7' drop tests conducted with toothed cam ascenders with a 225lbs weight severed the rope:excruciating. Now think about that folks, if you are on a sucker 3.5' above your target crotch you will fall 7' and don't think that your backup prussic above the ascender will grab on the 2" or so of rope.... We conducted numerous drop tests with the Wraptor and never had a failure as we were unable to generate the 4150lbs force that will cause rope failure. A large reason we could not attain this force is BECAUSE OF OUR STRETCHY ROPE. I don't claim to know everything there is to know about ascending trees but I have put a lot of thought and tests into this subject and KNOW if you set a line in a canopy daily you will one day get a surprise drop. I dont think the penalty for that should be death. When using the Wraptor Rope for ascending there is no downside to the 7% elongation as the Wraptor will pull the stretch out of the rope before you leave the ground and then as it is a completely consistent pull (very unlike the sit/stand motion of regular jugs) you will not notice the stretch again UNLESS you take a drop where it will minamize the impact. Outonalimb, did you even feel when the rope took up?? I doubt it, if you were using a static line you sure would have....
I have no way of controlling how you guys use these once you buy them but please make sure you understand why we advise you to use them as we do. The 3 main points for me are use a dynamic line to increase your chances of surviving a drop, have visual contact with you're TIP as this is what your life depends upon and always tie into them using your double rope system so WHEN you finally have occasion to need to retreat ( when you find that white faced hornets nest 1/2 way up) you are not forced to jump, Wraptors go up....

 

[lxt]

ropetek,

awesome lil invention, some may complain about price??? but dont we all? I was wondering....? why not show on your site how to emergency exit in case of that white face nest?

I dont know if you have video of such....but it would be a good idea, as Im sure it will take a little getting use to, bailing out using the wraptor!!!!

just a thought.


LXT.............

 

[lxt]

I see, I am assuming you must first dis-connect from the ssecondary ascender attachment?.......right?

So, in this case the wraptor is left hanging wherever you ran into the emergency?? boy would that suck!!! guess retrieval would depend on how you set the rope at the TIP?

I think I would want extra rope so I could do a ground tie off just in case of such an event, is that even possible?? last year hornets, stinkbugs, wasps, etc...were all bad, thought it was the end times!!! LOL


LXT................

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Anyone know the torture of seeing something you can't afford but can't afford not to have

Which is why I put it on the credit card After using it once I knew that it was a tool that I needed to have.

When I am on a contract job I add $20 to the bill for every day I use it, a couple of my clients actually came up with the idea and amount. One of them adds a few bucks to each of his invoices where it and the GRCS are used, his rational is that it makes the work cheaper, so the HO should pay something for the cost savings.

 

[lxt]

The rope the Wraptor climbs is suggested to be over the TIP and tied off at the ground.......so just untie and lower it.

thats what I was wondering, the one video it looked like they just put a running bowline in & cinched up to the TIP.

thats cool though.....seems like a nice investment!

LXT.........................

 

[ropensaddle]

Which is why I put it on the credit card After using it once I knew that it was a tool that I needed to have.

When I am on a contract job I add $20 to the bill for every day I use it, a couple of my clients actually came up with the idea and amount. One of them adds a few bucks to each of his invoices where it and the GRCS are used, his rational is that it makes the work cheaper, so the HO should pay something for the cost savings.

Yeah JPS I have to live within means as I had that idea one too many times. I will somehow come up with the extra and its on my list at the top just under cert fees. I do not feel the price is out of bounds at all , the work saved and wear on my old arse alone makes it sound investment. Maybe I can add a 20 dollar fee each job to purchase it soon lol

 

[treeseer]

" I have no way of controlling how you guys use these once you buy them but please make sure you understand why we advise you to use them as we do.

Also note ANSI recommends following mfr guidelines...

"The 3 main points for me are use a dynamic line to increase your chances of surviving a drop,

If TIP is sketchy, then yes. I will go back to the original rope for this reason and comfort also, unless weight is an issue, like putting it all in a suitcase and carrying it.

" have visual contact with you're TIP as this is what your life depends upon

Well this is the goal, but another goal often is to get as high as possible...

"and always tie into them using your double rope system so WHEN you finally have occasion to need to retreat ( when you find that white faced hornets nest 1/2 way up) you are not forced to jump,

For a while, in ascents into safe-looking areas, I hooked on with a double snap, to stay closer to the machine and to do less retying. But clipping out of that thing was a pain, and the whatifs--what Tom Dunlap calls the Oops Factor, are real, so I went back to tying into it, which works fine.

One side benefit of working off the machine is that it works as a rope/cambium saver. Any comments on that, Paul? O and are you going south again this weekend?

 

[ropetek]

"
One side benefit of working off the machine is that it works as a rope/cambium saver. Any comments on that, Paul? O and are you going south again this weekend?

As you know I would prefer you tie into the tree however you normally do, this is just to minimize Ropeteks exposure to risk, however doing this is as safe as being tied into say a forged ring that is tied to the rope. The Wraptor isnt going to move or care if you descend (other than the powder coat getting rubbed off of the TIP). However it all comes down to the fact that your TIP is suspended by a very vulnerable line that threads from the top of the tree to the ground where it is anchored. If at any point this line is struck or cut you fall. This is no different from using any other suspended TIP, accidents happen and IMO if you do this often then at some point that line is going to be cut. If you are tied into the tree with your dDrt system then the only person who can cut your rope is you and YOU know exactly where your line is.

Too easy to forget that Wraptor Rope is behind the trunk in some suckers, just reach around there and cut those suckers with my Silky, OOPS.

I am a production climber who specializes in large removals which we bid, so we are always in a hurry. I like to have systems in place that are fail proof time after time. Tying into a suspended TIP isnt one of those.