Yet Another Figure 8 question

[WolfpactVI]

Hello,

First time posting in the climbing section, though I've been lurking around AS for a few years. I climb DRT, using a blake's hitch on either the end of my rope or on a split tail (thinking about switching over to an eye-to-eye french prusik, but that's a different subject). I've been reading up on the benefits of using a figure 8 for decent to save wear and tear on split tails and the climbing rope. What I have NOT been able to figure out is if it's possible to use a figure 8 for decent using DRT. And if possible, how exactly to do it.

Also, I keep reading about using a friction hitch as a back-up for the figure 8. While I understand this in principle (let go of the figure 8 and you're going to drop - let go of a friction hitch and you'll stop), doesnt this defeat the purpose of saving wear on the split tail if you're using it right above a figure 8?

Help me sort all of this out. Thanks!


- J

 

[climb4fun]

you can use a fig 8 for drt no problem. just make sure its a full sized fig 8 and not a micro 8. you run the ropes through the 8 the same drt as you would on a single line, they just go side by side. as far as using a friction hitch to back it up... why bother? if you need to be able to stop mid line and lock in, just get a rescue 8 and learn to set a good lock loop (or get a pirona). as always when trying new gear, start low and slow. oh and another thing, using an 8 creates quite a bit more heat than a split tail or eye to eye tail. repelling fast is fun but its easier to burn up your lines with an 8 if you'r in a hurry. be safe out there bud.

 

[Zale]

Yes, you can descend on DRT using a figure 8. It just clips into your saddle and runs through where you're friction hitch would run on the rope. You'll need to look up exact configuration but its easy.

Unless you plan on burning out of a tree, if you descend in a controlled manner the wear on your hitch is negligible. I found by the time I untied and set up the figure 8 with a back up, I could usually be on the ground already.

 

[Iustinian]

Yes, you can descend on DRT using a figure 8. It just clips into your saddle and runs through where you're friction hitch would run on the rope. You'll need to look up exact configuration but its easy.

Unless you plan on burning out of a tree, if you descend in a controlled manner the wear on your hitch is negligible. I found by the time I untied and set up the figure 8 with a back up, I could usually be on the ground already.

I agree completely. I do enjoy burning out of a tree sometimes though, so I switch up. A gri gri is especially fun if you really want to sail out of a tree -- I do that once in a while for fun.

Even if you're buying your eye 2 eyes instead of splicing up your own, they're only $30, and I replace mine often so it really doesn't matter that much to me.

It sure looks cool having all that extra gear on your belt though hahahahaha.

 

[hero323]

havent tried think it would work though

just a thought i think with a bit of cordage or webbing you could installl the 8 above your hitch attach it to your tie in loosen your blakes a bit then on decent tend your blakes with one hand rappel with your other hand if you need to stop simply let go of your blakes... i think this would reduce wear on the split tail and allow a pretty fast decent out of the tree... anyone see why this wouldn't work?

 

[2treeornot2tree]

using a figure 8 on drt, the 8 is gonna be slow, maybe even to the point of having to push slack into the figure 8. Only time i would use a figure 8 to rappel out of the tree would be if i coming down srt.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

just a thought i think with a bit of cordage or webbing you could installl the 8 above your hitch attach it to your tie in loosen your blakes a bit then on decent tend your blakes with one hand rappel with your other hand if you need to stop simply let go of your blakes... i think this would reduce wear on the split tail and allow a pretty fast decent out of the tree... anyone see why this wouldn't work?

If you want a safety while decending on a figure 8, use a hip prusik.

 

[hero323]

If you want a safety while decending on a figure 8, use a hip prusik.

that works to but i think keeping your blakes in place works to without transfering to a hip prusik

 

[2treeornot2tree]

that works to but i think keeping your blakes in place works to without transfering to a hip prusik

Unless you run a super long tail, i dont beleive you will have the room for a 8 under your blakes. Plus I would think that you could be on the ground before you could rig your figure 8 unless your up a 200' tree.

 

[treemandan]

That's why I biner my 8 into a leg strap. It's got to be lower than the hitch.

Doing so doesn't pull you off center?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I always carry my big fat rescue 8 on my saddle, if I'm done with the trim I can bomb on down, always have the option of locking off on the ears if I missed a cut on the way down. Mine's big enough to come down the bullrope if we're dropping the pole.

 

[WolfpactVI]

Thanks for all of the replies! From what I've gathered, the figure 8 goes on the running side of the climbing rope, the same side the hitch grabs, and simply takes the place of the hitch functionally. Makes sense to me. The 8 has to go below the hitch or replace the hitch. Some of you are saying just untie the hitch, some are saying the 8 takes all of the load so the hitch will loosen up enough to not get any wear from friction.

There seems to be some suggestions about running both ends of the climbing rope through the 8 (which I've seen pictures of), but I dont think that will work for my setup. Let's say my rope goes from the ground up over a limb from the right hand, then down to a carabiner on my saddle bridge on the left hand. When I'm close up under that limb, the left side of my rope is pretty short. If U understand correctly, in order to run both ends of the rope through the 8, both ends would have to reach all the way to the ground. That sound right?

I think I am going to get one and try it out, for fun if nothing else. Any suggestions on plain, one with ears on both sides, one with ears on only one side?


- J

 

[WolfpactVI]

I have a small deaf 8 I biner into my left leg strap and it runs below my climbing hitch. It's great for a rapid descent as all you do is grip the rope below the 8 with one hand and push down on the top of the climbing hitch with the other. The hitch loosens up and the 8 takes the whole load.

I also use this configuration as a backup to my lanyard when chunking down a spar srt with my climbing rope at waist level with a running bowline around the spar. I leave about eight feet of tail out of the bowline so I can srt down to my next cutting position and then pull my climbing rope back down to me with the eight foot tail. Some climbers use a second short piece of rope for the pull down line which is a good idea.

I cant quite picture the 8 in the leg strap, or figure out how you retrieve your rope after SRT down the bowline tail. Can you attach an 8 to any saddle's leg strap or only certain ones? Do you have any pictures or videos of either?


- J

 

[Pelorus]

Ears help to prevent accidental unwanted girth hitching, and two ears are better than one, imo,

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Correct. Get a larger 8, I like the rescue 8 with ears. Just untie your hitch and run the tail to the ground. Run both legs through the 8, and come on down. There's no need for a hitch. Def saves wear on the rope. And the ride is a nice reward at the end of a climb.

 

[beastmaster]

Using an 8 drt is going to be slow, might as well just use your hitch. I have never backed up my 8. Seems like that defeets the whole reason of using an 8. I carrie one on my belt always for emergencies. a ground person could lower you from the ground if you were incapacitated or a fellow climber. Nothing is funner then using an 8, after putting a tipping line on a tall limbed pine and trying to make it down in two or three jumps, or upside down. yeah huh

 

[WolfpactVI]

Using an 8 drt is going to be slow, might as well just use your hitch. I have never backed up my 8. Seems like that defeets the whole reason of using an 8. I carrie one on my belt always for emergencies. a ground person could lower you from the ground if you were incapacitated or a fellow climber. Nothing is funner then using an 8, after putting a tipping line on a tall limbed pine and trying to make it down in two or three jumps, or upside down. yeah huh

Does sound like fun!

 

[WolfpactVI]

Can't picture an 8 on a biner clipped into a leg strap?


Read my post again. I didn't say I srt down the bowline tail. In fact, if you srt down the bowline tail, you fall.

Sorry, no videos or photos. If a description is not enough it's best to leave the technique alone.

Sorry about that. I started phrasing things one way, then switched. What I meant was, is it ok to clip an 8 to the leg strap of ANY saddle, or just certain ones? I just have the basic weaver cougar saddle. Dont want to be hanging from some part of it I'm not suppose to.

Regarding the SRT on the chunk down, I see you werent referring to the bowline tail. Forgive my ignorance - you posted a description of a technique you use, and I merely want to have a correct picture and accurate understanding of it. I dont like to have half-formed or incorrect pictures of things stored away. Would you mind providing a little more detail about where your climbing rope goes and how you retrieve it? Just not enough in your post for me to figure it out. And I doubt I will ever use it - but like I said, I dont like having incorrect understandings of techniques tucked away in my head.

Thanks!


- J

 

[WolfpactVI]

Correct. Get a larger 8, I like the rescue 8 with ears. Just untie your hitch and run the tail to the ground. Run both legs through the 8, and come on down. There's no need for a hitch. Def saves wear on the rope. And the ride is a nice reward at the end of a climb.

I dont quite understand why I should run both legs through the 8. Wouldnt the leg of my climbing rope tied to a carabiner on my bridge not be moving at all relative to the 8 clipped to another carabiner on my bridge? Could you take a picture next time you've got your 8 set up like this? Thanks!

 

[Guran]

No there yet, but........

I have never backed up my 8. Seems like that defeets the whole reason of using an 8.

Well, when I'm as professional as you beast, maybe I'll stop using a back up prusik. :biggrin:
But until then I'll add a 6mm prusik on the climbing rope and clip in to the bridge. Just to be on the safe side if something should happen.....