Yet Another Wood ID Question

[Wood Doctor]

I'll have Pics shortly, but I'd like to have an opinion based on my verbal description below. The tree removal company had little to offer and neither did the homeowner. The homeowner loved the tree, but it was too close to his house, planted about 40 years before he moved in last year, and threatening the foundation. Here's my written description:

1) The wood is almost white throughout, even in a heavy branch, and the rings are very close together.
2) The bark is very thin almost down to the trunk and rather smooth, similar to pin oak.
3) The leaves are like over sized locust leaves, a stem with a dozen or so leaves, six or more on a side, but about twice the size of locust leaves, smaller than ash leaves, and more the size of elm leaves.
4) Wood density is heavy, similar to oak, locust, ash, or hard maple.
5) The tree was at least 70 feet tall and had very few dead branches, if any, and growing straight up.
6) I doubt this is either a fruit or a nut tree of any sort and no thorns exist.
7) The wood grain appears very straight and it should be easy to split, green or dry.

I'll take and post pics shortly, but this has everyone here stumped, including me. So, WDYT? Any ideas?

 

[CaseyForrest]

Beech?

 

[crowbuster]

do you have hackberry there ?

 

[buzz sawyer]

Boxelder?

 

[Jed1124]

Tree of Heaven (Alianthus) or black or white walnut

 

[Jed1124]

Beech?

I was thinking beech too until he started talking about compound leaves

 

[Streblerm]

Butternut/white walnut? The leaves sound right but the bark description and lack of nuts point to something else.

 

[bitzer]

My vote is for hackberry. He said white wood so that cancels any walnut/butternut. Hackberry can grow pretty tall and strait. It's leaves are similar to elm and it's bark can be similar to young ash or young walnut. Typically greenish bark sometimes corky looking sometimes very smooth. Sometimes will have a dark heart but often white wood in younger trees.

 

[abbott295]

it seems as though the original poster, Wood doctor is familiar with his local ash, locust and elm, and the tree is not believed to be a nut tree, and appears to have compound leaves. That information makes a lot of the usual suspects less likely. Being that it is next to a house, a non-native tree is a distinct possibility; tree of heaven ( Alianthus ) is a possibility. Others? Straight and tall, growing in a yard? How high up was it to branches? Heavily branched, like a pin oak? Can you get a twig and split it lengthways to see the pith? Has it got opposite or alternate branching? He didn't actually say compound leaves, but the description sounds like it. If they aren't, and it is kind of vase-shaped, an elm is a possibility yet. I don't have much experience with alianthus.

Looking forward to seeing pictures. And hearing more guesses.

 

[buzz sawyer]

I had ruled out Ailanthus because it has a 13 - 25 or more leaflets. The OP said "six or more on a side" so it could be but the leaf shape didn't sound right either.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Tree of Heaven (Alianthus) or black or white walnut

I think that's it: Alianthus. I'll take the pics tomorrow morning. Here's the scoop:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...wer2.jpg/1280px-AilanthusAltissimaFlower2.jpg

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...D02DA4CF3A3D92B5917ED02DA4CF3A3D92B&FORM=VIRE

Mine has no odor as they talk about here. Some say it's only the male leaves that stink. The end grain of a cut branch on my mystery tree has no odor at all. In only 24 hours and in sun exposure, the end grain is turning color from satin to about the same as a silver maple or an ash. Looks like it will be easy to split green, but I can verify that tomorrow.

Density is high and it's almost knot free because it was pruned so high up by the homeowner. Growing too close to the home's foundation, it had to go. The climber worked from the top down and believe me, he was about 70 feet up. Branches had to be carefully lowered to protect both the house and a nearby fence. I'm still amazed at how thin the bark is.

 

[johnnyballs]

i would agree with casey that it's beech, but then again... ???... or mountain ash... ??

 

[cus_deluxe]

Sounds like ailanthus to me as well. Looks like an overgrown sumac. Never seen one 70 feet tall, but ive seen em get to 40 feet or so pretty quick.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Well, I split a whole truckload of my Tree of Heaven today. It splits very easily. I ran into a few ants, but that's to be expected. There are some twigs with 12 or more leaves on each side, so that's my error. Buzz Sawyer caught that mistake in post #10. I imagine it has lots of water on board this time of year, so its density will likely drop considerably as it dries out, but regardless, the annular rings are packed very tight.

If it burns well when dry, I think it will make good firewood. Sorry I have no Pics, so you will have to live with the Wikipedia shots in post #11. One thing for sure, I encountered no stench that is discussed elsewhere. The thin bark is a pleasant surprise. By comparison, walnut, soft maple, cottonwood, etc. have thick bark that becomes a nuisance when you collect lots of it because it falls off if you split it dry.

This tree was so big at the trunk that I had to noodle cut several rounds in half in order to load them onto the truck's tailgate. A full load gave my truck an excuse to groan and moan. In all, I carried three truckloads away from the drop site. Thanks to all for the help in the ID. This is my first encounter with a Tree of Heaven, although I have processed some Ginkgo that has a completely different leaf.

 

[Jed1124]

Well, I split a whole truckload of my Tree of Heaven today. It splits very easily. I ran into a few ants, but that's to be expected. There are some twigs with 12 or more leaves on each side, so that's my error. Buzz Sawyer caught that mistake in post #10. I imagine it has lots of water on board this time of year, so its density will likely drop considerably as it dries out, but regardless, the annular rings are packed very tight.

If it burns well when dry, I think it will make good firewood. Sorry I have no Pics, so you will have to live with the Wikipedia shots in post #11. One thing for sure, I encountered no stench that is discussed elsewhere. The thin bark is a pleasant surprise. By comparison, walnut, soft maple, cottonwood, etc. have thick bark that becomes a nuisance when you collect lots of it because it falls off if you split it dry.

This tree was so big at the trunk that I had to noodle cut several rounds in half in order to load them onto the truck's tailgate. A full load gave my truck an excuse to groan and moan. In all, I carried three truckloads away from the drop site. Thanks to all for the help in the ID. This is my first encounter with a Tree of Heaven, although I have processed some Ginkgo that has a completely different leaf.

I've seen them that big by me. Free wood is free wood, but once it looses it's water it's going to be light. Worse yet is the smell. It stinks god awful when it burns. Your neighbors might not be to happy with you. But like I said, free wood is free wood, and your neighbors ain't heating your house for ya.

 

[Wood Doctor]

I've seen them that big by me. Free wood is free wood, but once it looses it's water it's going to be light. Worse yet is the smell. It stinks god awful when it burns. Your neighbors might not be to happy with you. But like I said, free wood is free wood, and your neighbors ain't heating your house for ya.

I can't imagine it could smell worse than box elder, but I suppose it's possible. As soon as it dries in a few months, I'll check that out with some samples. Unfortunately, this tree had no dead limbs on it.

We are getting some very good drying conditions this year compared to last year. Heck, last year I thought I was living in Louisiana. We grew more lichens, toadstools, and mushrooms on the logs than I had ever seen before.

 

[rarefish383]

I've seen a few that big. If I ever see another big one I'll mill it. The wood is beautiful. Since we have all the Oak we could ever hope to use, I always threw it on the burn pile. Last year I split a couple small ones, 10"-12" or so, and stacked it in my wood shed. To my surprise, it actually burn well, but fast. Was good for starting the fire. The only reason I kept it was my tractor was down and I had to get the yard cleaned up, and the trees were growing right next to my wood shed. Even being "OK" wood I won't bother keeping it, unless for some reason that's less work than dragging it to the burn pile, Joe.

 

[Wood Doctor]

I am proposing an interesting experiment here. I salvaged some wood from a rather healthy hard maple at the same time that this tree of heaven was dropped. Several of the logs are abut the same size and diameter from each tree. At this point, they seem to be about the same density, and they will be dried in the same location with the same sun and wind exposure.

In the fall, I will compare the two for density once again when both are drier. One thing for sure, the large tree of heaven rounds split rather heavenly -- even easier than the hard maple and some of my soft silver maple that also was green. My 24-ton Brave didn't even know the log was there as it started to split it. I could have split the whole tree with a maul, even in my over-the-hill physical state.