not much of a face cut

[Danger Cat]

I agree that there's always a lot of learning to be had in this job, and I've cut timber in every state west of the Miss., Alaska, and Canada. I'm still learning constantly and don't fool myself into thinking that I'm the be-all end-all of anything. However, when you post videos of yourself on the internet, in fun and for entertainment, you open yourself up for criticism. That's just the way of life, human nature, and the internet. I face the same thing every time I teach a saw handling and falling class or when I certify students as fallers (in both government and private industry.)

The reason I post the comments that I do here is because young guys see your videos and fall in love with what you're doing and how you conduct yourself. Then they want to be like you and do the things you're doing, as evidenced by the way they talk about it, the copycat videos I see, and people asking me if these techniques really work "well I saw hotsaws101 doing it", etc. etc. Part of keeping young log cutters healthy is teaching them patience, finesse, and not to be too aggressive for their skill level.

As far as posting randomly on this site or any other, you were always welcome to join the discussion here and it's good that you're here now. This is the biggest forum and open discussion on the internet (as far as I know) on forestry and tree service related issues. The comments here are seen by tens of thousands of people every day. It's important that a professional manner be maintained.

As far as head lean, back lean, and side lean go- How those and other terms are used in your area doesn't mean they're universal. Northern California is nice, but it's not the whole world.

I guess to me maintaining a professional atmosphere means you are dealing with or talking to that person directly, not about them. Especially when they are unaware it is even going on. I have seen a lot of interesting things on YouTube and have yet to make an unprovoked, snide comment about someone elses' style. If you are going to bag on my style then be decent enough to do it directly. I might be a little slow, but not stupid.
I have cut logs in Washington, Oregon, all over northern Cali., and in So. Cal. - Julian to be exact. Head lean has been when it is already listing the right direction. Kind of like driving a car, a boat, or whatever - ahead is the way you go. This came from my grandpa who hand fell old growth with a misery whip and a sharp axe. This is also like how you plumb a tree. 90 degrees from where you need it to go. If it leans that way it is head lean, if it does not the tree leans back. You then plumb it from 180 degrees of the desired falling direction, unless (and this is rare) the limbs prevent you from seeing the bole of the tree. At that point, you have to go to the front or way you need it to go. This reading tells you the side lean. You can NOT compensate for the lean (and limb weight) with the face cut unless you know what the actual lean characteristics are. Therefore, if you do not know how the tree leans you can not be that accurate with the it. If you are plumbing it from other places you will get false readings, that is simple geometry.
Why is this important? Because when you are felling big, tall timber, to hit the shot it is CRITICAL they take off the right direction (unless a swing is used). The taller they are the more critical it becomes! I am talking about non pulled trees here, of course.
You are right, I post some of the vids. for the fun of it, to show what is possible (if all goes right), and my way of doing it. And yes they really work, I am not a computer whiz... I have never said it is the only way any of the manuvers can be done. They are always well thought out and calculated, with the escape route ready. The nickname was given to me because I will try things that are on the edge - this does not make me foolish, I am well aware of the ramifications if something goes wrong. Just because I do it does not mean everyone should. Log cutters are an independent lot and most will try new things. My thought is now, if one way to do it is shown, then at least there is a basis for the starting point. It is up to the individual to realize if they are capable.
It is possible to show someone ways to do things and coversely, ways that will get you killed. However, you can not teach finesse, it is acquired. Just like timberfalling, they are learned things.
As far as influencing someone, that was never miy intention.
In regard to the Humboldt undercut, you guys only have it half right. Originally it was two paralell, flat cuts put in by the old drag saws that were nailed to the tree, around Humboldt Bay. You guys are talking about a "modified" Humboldt undercut where the bottom cut is put in at an angle toward the ground.
It is important to realize, a modified Humboldt is less accurate than the original (when done correctly) and the farmers face - top cut taken out of butt of the tree.
One more note in relating to that professionalism thing, some of the guys on this forum should take the time to ask a few questions of the guy doing the work > who knows, they might even learn something from this dumby.

___________________________________

If you are paying attention...there is still some learning to be had!

 

[Gologit]

I guess to me maintaining a professional atmosphere means you are dealing with or talking to that person directly, not about them. Especially when they are unaware it is even going on. I have seen a lot of interesting things on YouTube and have yet to make an unprovoked, snide comment about someone elses' style. If you are going to bag on my style then be decent enough to do it directly. I might be a little slow, but not stupid.
I have cut logs in Washington, Oregon, all over northern Cali., and in So. Cal. - Julian to be exact. Head lean has been when it is already listing the right direction. Kind of like driving a car, a boat, or whatever - ahead is the way you go. This came from my grandpa who hand fell old growth with a misery whip and a sharp axe. This is also like how you plumb a tree. 90 degrees from where you need it to go. If it leans that way it is head lean, if it does not the tree leans back. You then plumb it from 180 degrees of the desired falling direction, unless (and this is rare) the limbs prevent you from seeing the bole of the tree. At that point, you have to go to the front or way you need it to go. This reading tells you the side lean. You can NOT compensate for the lean (and limb weight) with the face cut unless you know what the actual lean characteristics are. Therefore, if you do not know how the tree leans you can not be that accurate with the it. If you are plumbing it from other places you will get false readings, that is simple geometry.
Why is this important? Because when you are felling big, tall timber, to hit the shot it is CRITICAL they take off the right direction (unless a swing is used). The taller they are the more critical it becomes! I am talking about non pulled trees here, of course.
You are right, I post some of the vids. for the fun of it, to show what is possible (if all goes right), and my way of doing it. And yes they really work, I am not a computer whiz... I have never said it is the only way any of the manuvers can be done. They are always well thought out and calculated, with the escape route ready. The nickname was given to me because I will try things that are on the edge - this does not make me foolish, I am well aware of the ramifications if something goes wrong. Just because I do it does not mean everyone should. Log cutters are an independent lot and most will try new things. My thought is now, if one way to do it is shown, then at least there is a basis for the starting point. It is up to the individual to realize if they are capable.
It is possible to show someone ways to do things and coversely, ways that will get you killed. However, you can not teach finesse, it is acquired. Just like timberfalling, they are learned things.
As far as influencing someone, that was never miy intention.
In regard to the Humboldt undercut, you guys only have it half right. Originally it was two paralell, flat cuts put in by the old drag saws that were nailed to the tree, around Humboldt Bay. You guys are talking about a "modified" Humboldt undercut where the bottom cut is put in at an angle toward the ground.
It is important to realize, a modified Humboldt is less accurate than the original (when done correctly) and the farmers face - top cut taken out of butt of the tree.
One more note in relating to that professionalism thing, some of the guys on this forum should take the time to ask a few questions of the guy doing the work > who knows, they might even learn something from this dumby.

___________________________________

If you are paying attention...there is still some learning to be had!

You're preaching to the choir. Don't tell us...show us.

 

[fmaglin]

I guess to me maintaining a professional atmosphere means you are dealing with or talking to that person directly, not about them. Especially when they are unaware it is even going on. I have seen a lot of interesting things on YouTube and have yet to make an unprovoked, snide comment about someone elses' style. If you are going to bag on my style then be decent enough to do it directly. I might be a little slow, but not stupid.
I have cut logs in Washington, Oregon, all over northern Cali., and in So. Cal. - Julian to be exact. Head lean has been when it is already listing the right direction. Kind of like driving a car, a boat, or whatever - ahead is the way you go. This came from my grandpa who hand fell old growth with a misery whip and a sharp axe. This is also like how you plumb a tree. 90 degrees from where you need it to go. If it leans that way it is head lean, if it does not the tree leans back. You then plumb it from 180 degrees of the desired falling direction, unless (and this is rare) the limbs prevent you from seeing the bole of the tree. At that point, you have to go to the front or way you need it to go. This reading tells you the side lean. You can NOT compensate for the lean (and limb weight) with the face cut unless you know what the actual lean characteristics are. Therefore, if you do not know how the tree leans you can not be that accurate with the it. If you are plumbing it from other places you will get false readings, that is simple geometry.
Why is this important? Because when you are felling big, tall timber, to hit the shot it is CRITICAL they take off the right direction (unless a swing is used). The taller they are the more critical it becomes! I am talking about non pulled trees here, of course.
You are right, I post some of the vids. for the fun of it, to show what is possible (if all goes right), and my way of doing it. And yes they really work, I am not a computer whiz... I have never said it is the only way any of the manuvers can be done. They are always well thought out and calculated, with the escape route ready. The nickname was given to me because I will try things that are on the edge - this does not make me foolish, I am well aware of the ramifications if something goes wrong. Just because I do it does not mean everyone should. Log cutters are an independent lot and most will try new things. My thought is now, if one way to do it is shown, then at least there is a basis for the starting point. It is up to the individual to realize if they are capable.
It is possible to show someone ways to do things and coversely, ways that will get you killed. However, you can not teach finesse, it is acquired. Just like timberfalling, they are learned things.
As far as influencing someone, that was never miy intention.
In regard to the Humboldt undercut, you guys only have it half right. Originally it was two paralell, flat cuts put in by the old drag saws that were nailed to the tree, around Humboldt Bay. You guys are talking about a "modified" Humboldt undercut where the bottom cut is put in at an angle toward the ground.
It is important to realize, a modified Humboldt is less accurate than the original (when done correctly) and the farmers face - top cut taken out of butt of the tree.
One more note in relating to that professionalism thing, some of the guys on this forum should take the time to ask a few questions of the guy doing the work > who knows, they might even learn something from this dumby.

___________________________________

If you are paying attention...there is still some learning to be had!

Well said.

 

[Jacob J.]

I guess to me maintaining a professional atmosphere means you are dealing with or talking to that person directly, not about them. Especially when they are unaware it is even going on. I have seen a lot of interesting things on YouTube and have yet to make an unprovoked, snide comment about someone elses' style. If you are going to bag on my style then be decent enough to do it directly. I might be a little slow, but not stupid.
I have cut logs in Washington, Oregon, all over northern Cali., and in So. Cal. - Julian to be exact. Head lean has been when it is already listing the right direction. Kind of like driving a car, a boat, or whatever - ahead is the way you go. This came from my grandpa who hand fell old growth with a misery whip and a sharp axe. This is also like how you plumb a tree. 90 degrees from where you need it to go. If it leans that way it is head lean, if it does not the tree leans back. You then plumb it from 180 degrees of the desired falling direction, unless (and this is rare) the limbs prevent you from seeing the bole of the tree. At that point, you have to go to the front or way you need it to go. This reading tells you the side lean. You can NOT compensate for the lean (and limb weight) with the face cut unless you know what the actual lean characteristics are. Therefore, if you do not know how the tree leans you can not be that accurate with the it. If you are plumbing it from other places you will get false readings, that is simple geometry.
Why is this important? Because when you are felling big, tall timber, to hit the shot it is CRITICAL they take off the right direction (unless a swing is used). The taller they are the more critical it becomes! I am talking about non pulled trees here, of course.
You are right, I post some of the vids. for the fun of it, to show what is possible (if all goes right), and my way of doing it. And yes they really work, I am not a computer whiz... I have never said it is the only way any of the manuvers can be done. They are always well thought out and calculated, with the escape route ready. The nickname was given to me because I will try things that are on the edge - this does not make me foolish, I am well aware of the ramifications if something goes wrong. Just because I do it does not mean everyone should. Log cutters are an independent lot and most will try new things. My thought is now, if one way to do it is shown, then at least there is a basis for the starting point. It is up to the individual to realize if they are capable.
It is possible to show someone ways to do things and coversely, ways that will get you killed. However, you can not teach finesse, it is acquired. Just like timberfalling, they are learned things.
As far as influencing someone, that was never miy intention.
In regard to the Humboldt undercut, you guys only have it half right. Originally it was two paralell, flat cuts put in by the old drag saws that were nailed to the tree, around Humboldt Bay. You guys are talking about a "modified" Humboldt undercut where the bottom cut is put in at an angle toward the ground.
It is important to realize, a modified Humboldt is less accurate than the original (when done correctly) and the farmers face - top cut taken out of butt of the tree.
One more note in relating to that professionalism thing, some of the guys on this forum should take the time to ask a few questions of the guy doing the work > who knows, they might even learn something from this dumby.

___________________________________

If you are paying attention...there is still some learning to be had!

This forum is much more open than making comments on youtube. 99% of what I see there is ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and blind praise. If you want talk on the phone, I'd be more than happy to do that...

Around here (southern Oregon), the "modified" Humboldt became the Humboldt undercut in the mid-late 40's, about the time when modern one-man chainsaws became reliable enough to use everyday. The style you're referring to became known as the "block-out" style Humboldt or old-growth Humboldt. I got my info first hand from guys that were there doing the work- my dad, uncles, grandpa, great-grandpa, great-great grandpa, and all their brothers. There's a lot of guys on this forum that know what the block-out style Humboldt, modified Humboldt, modified Conventional, and open face are. The block-out Humboldt isn't necessary in smaller timber or in most species, that's why the modified Humboldt became the standard. I have used the block-out cut in large Redwood, Western Red Cedar, and old, old Ponderosa Pine.

Finesse can be taught. If you have or ever teach someone how to run a saw and cut timber, you will see how easy it is to teach finesse. Showing someone how to keep their tip out of the dirt is one example.

I do respect the fact that you've posted some videos showing what can go wrong too. I went back and watched some of your older videos last night. There's good stuff in there.

I have actually talked to you before. I bought some stuff from your e-bay store and there were some problems. I still have parts in my spares box with the "hotsaws101" card attached to them because the saws I ordered them for were long gone by the time I finally got the parts.

 

[Metals406]

This forum is much more open than making comments on youtube. 99% of what I see there is ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and blind praise. If you want talk on the phone, I'd be more than happy to do that...

Around here (southern Oregon), the "modified" Humboldt became the Humboldt undercut in the mid-late 40's, about the time when modern one-man chainsaws became reliable enough to use everyday. The style you're referring to became known as the "block-out" style Humboldt or old-growth Humboldt. I got my info first hand from guys that were there doing the work- my dad, uncles, grandpa, great-grandpa, great-great grandpa, and all their brothers. There's a lot of guys on this forum that know what the block-out style Humboldt, modified Humboldt, modified Conventional, and open face are. The block-out Humboldt isn't necessary in smaller timber or in most species, that's why the modified Humboldt became the standard. I have used the block-out cut in large Redwood, Western Red Cedar, and old, old Ponderosa Pine.

Finesse can be taught. If you have or ever teach someone how to run a saw and cut timber, you will see how easy it is to teach finesse. Showing someone how to keep their tip out of the dirt is one example.

I do respect the fact that you've posted some videos showing what can go wrong too. I went back and watched some of your older videos last night. There's good stuff in there.

I have actually talked to you before. I bought some stuff from your e-bay store and there were some problems. I still have parts in my spares box with the "hotsaws101" card attached to them because the saws I ordered them for were long gone by the time I finally got the parts.

:sword:

opcorn:

 

[hammerlogging]

Finesse can be taught. If you have or ever teach someone how to run a saw and cut timber, you will see how easy it is to teach finesse. Showing someone how to keep their tip out of the dirt is one example.

thats not finesse, thats chainsaw 101, if I may. (if any feathers are ruffled it was only in a punny sort of way)

I do not believe that just anybody's got it, seen too many fallers that can get em on the ground, but dont have that fluid skillz. The flow. The spirit. And their production falters for it, and they wear out. Suckers.

 

[056kid]

nicely spoken

 

[Jacob J.]

thats not finesse, thats chainsaw 101, if I may. (if any feathers are ruffled it was only in a punny sort of way)

I do not believe that just anybody's got it, seen too many fallers that can get em on the ground, but dont have that fluid skillz. The flow. The spirit. And their production falters for it, and they wear out. Suckers.

My experience has been different. I was clumsy doofus when I first started and the old timers showed me how to 'get it'. Since then I've started a bunch of guys out who were also clumsy doofuses and showed them how to 'get it'. There will always be people who will never get it, but most people are trainable in all things...

 

[Danger Cat]

This forum is much more open than making comments on youtube. 99% of what I see there is ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and blind praise. If you want talk on the phone, I'd be more than happy to do that...

Around here (southern Oregon), the "modified" Humboldt became the Humboldt undercut in the mid-late 40's, about the time when modern one-man chainsaws became reliable enough to use everyday. The style you're referring to became known as the "block-out" style Humboldt or old-growth Humboldt. I got my info first hand from guys that were there doing the work- my dad, uncles, grandpa, great-grandpa, great-great grandpa, and all their brothers. There's a lot of guys on this forum that know what the block-out style Humboldt, modified Humboldt, modified Conventional, and open face are. The block-out Humboldt isn't necessary in smaller timber or in most species, that's why the modified Humboldt became the standard. I have used the block-out cut in large Redwood, Western Red Cedar, and old, old Ponderosa Pine.

Finesse can be taught. If you have or ever teach someone how to run a saw and cut timber, you will see how easy it is to teach finesse. Showing someone how to keep their tip out of the dirt is one example.

I do respect the fact that you've posted some videos showing what can go wrong too. I went back and watched some of your older videos last night. There's good stuff in there.

I have actually talked to you before. I bought some stuff from your e-bay store and there were some problems. I still have parts in my spares box with the "hotsaws101" card attached to them because the saws I ordered them for were long gone by the time I finally got the parts.

I had to laugh after reading the latest. So now you are bagging on the YouTubers that are "making 99% of the ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and blind praise" comments as if they are a bunch idiots. That they are unable to discern smooth workmen ship, and generally cannot tell where they might be with their skill set. This is just not true. There are quite a few fallers making comments that have just as much (maybe more) experience as the rest of us.
Unfortunately, you have it backward. The original Humboldt undercut (blocked out undercut) was first. Let’s review. The Humboldt undercut was two parallel cuts put in with a saw (most of the time a foot or two apart). Side note; if the mondo trees did not start off going the right direction, generally, the shot was missed which is one reason why most of the time the cuts were not that far apart, also the smaller blocks were easier to handle. Back on track now… It was then taken out in, a or several, blocks via a peeling bar or corner bit of a cat blade if handy, or what ever else worked. Later on, the fallers started taking the bottom cut out at a angle toward the ground. This is a variation of the original, hence MODIFIED Humboldt. It is easier to get out but not necessarily more acc-u-rat. I got my information from being there, doing the work, and trying variations of all, not second hand. Incidentally, I never heard anyone refer to the original as an old growth Humboldt. Just Humboldt. It does not really matter where you use it or what kind of tree. Side note, if there are special timing needs it is one of the better choices. What you are saying is like the race guys showing up with a 500cc Rotax sporting a bar and chain. Then saying it is a chainsaw because this is how we do it now > ???
My Dad had an adage : those who can’t, teach. Mine is; if you are going to teach, get it right.
Hammerlogger says it best, “thats not finesse, thats chainsaw 101, if I may. (if any feathers are ruffled it was only in a punny sort of way)

I do not believe that just anybody's got it, seen too many fallers that can get em on the ground, but dont have that fluid skillz. The flow. The spirit. And their production falters for it, and they wear out. Suckers.”

Who can argue with that? The HammerMan (if I may call you that?) nails it, except, maybe, for the suckers part. It is pain full to watch, pain full for the guy, and pain full for the trees when it is a "no flow" thing. Just like everone else, I am gulity of this on occasion. I kinda feel sorry for a guy that is always beating his brains out because he cannot seem to figure out the plumb operation. Additionally, you do not go from clumsy doofus saw in the dirt guy, and after someone shows you one time how to look for the color change between the bark and cambium layer, to Mr. Finesse Extraordinaire. That takes time, some never get it. I still hit the deck occasionally, usually the bark is gone though.
I show some things going wrong because it gives others that might try a heads up on what to possibility watch out for. But mostly, it is because I am far from perfect, and can admit it. Not really sure why you would waste the time checking out the videos of a “dumb fool” like me. Do me a favor, don’t bother any more. There is nothing for you to learn. You are obviously smarter, a better faller, and of course better looking than I. Nobody has to ask…
One more poke at the professionalism comment that you made first. In regard to the eBay problems, you make it sound like it was months and months before the parts arrived. You and I both know this is not true either. Unless the P.O. had problems delivering them? There was a time that I had to go out of state to attend to some family matters. Twice within a few days of one another. Everyone that bought parts was understanding , except one… You probably know him though. If there was a real issue, you should have made it known long, long ago. When you do not , it is not me that looks like the snake in the grass. Send them back, I would be happy to give full credit.
It is unfortunate that you feel the need to try and slander me (eBay comments) here on this forum. You must be a very bitter human being, and that is really to bad. I will be praying that you realize we all make mistakes, and that no one is immune from them.
In summation, we could talk on the phone but, it would not get us anywhere. I have never been able to help out the self righteous that are among us.
I wish you the best with your endeavors, though. Good Luck!
_________________________________________

If you are paying attention, there is still some learning to be had!

 

[056kid]

Guys around would argue with Sir Isaac Newton about gravity...

 

[Gologit]

Guys around would argue with Sir Isaac Newton about gravity...

LOL...Yup kinda like bar room or bunkhouse arguments...but without the fist fights. So far anyway.

But...look beyond the arguing and listen to the information both are providing. There's stuff to learn from in there. You just have to figure out which is good and which is bad and which you can use.

Arguments are another way to spread information...the decibel level just gets kinda high.

 

[hammerlogging]

What makes me think "STUPID" is all this crap about better not tell so and so how to do something because they might not be good enouth to handle it. Cause we do things every day that are risky, we constantly take calculated risks, that we dance on the edge and atleast for me, in addition to the great views, outside work, "national geographic moments" (seeing cool stuff), chance to use my body and get in the flow etc., is why I am a ####ing logger. If some dude wants to ask a ####ing logger is this or that possible, he can. If some dude wants to try this for himself, he can. And he can die. And I can die. And we are not responsible for ech other because nobody made nobody do nothing. Whats the point of this forum, not talking about advanced technique so no nobody tries something over their head? Its Darwin, he'll sort out the mess for us. If a non pro asks a pro something, he'll get (hopefully) a pro answer but PLEASE let each of us be accountable for our own actions. If some dude is stupid enough to cut a tree with 2 leaners in it because he heard it could be done, welll, it can be done, its not safe, but we can explain that it may be possible......DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

BTW, my new Wesco timber boots are SWEEEEET comapred to my old POS hoffman calks w/ block heels. Weathers good, leaves are turning, couldn't be happier than to be a logger.

 

[fmaglin]

What makes me think "STUPID" is all this crap about better not tell so and so how to do something because they might not be good enouth to handle it. Cause we do things every day that are risky, we constantly take calculated risks, that we dance on the edge and atleast for me, in addition to the great views, outside work, "national geographic moments" (seeing cool stuff), chance to use my body and get in the flow etc., is why I am a ####ing logger. If some dude wants to ask a ####ing logger is this or that possible, he can. If some dude wants to try this for himself, he can. And he can die. And I can die. And we are not responsible for ech other because nobody made nobody do nothing. Whats the point of this forum, not talking about advanced technique so no nobody tries something over their head? Its Darwin, he'll sort out the mess for us. If a non pro asks a pro something, he'll get (hopefully) a pro answer but PLEASE let each of us be accountable for our own actions. If some dude is stupid enough to cut a tree with 2 leaners in it because he heard it could be done, welll, it can be done, its not safe, but we can explain that it may be possible......DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

BTW, my new Wesco timber boots are SWEEEEET comapred to my old POS hoffman calks w/ block heels. Weathers good, leaves are turning, couldn't be happier than to be a logger.

I hear this all the time., both from bosses and other workers. "Why did you do it that way?" "That way is too dangerous." "Here's how I do it". My answer goes like this: Because that's the way I do it! It might be the right way or it might be the wrong way; however, it is the way I am comfortable with. Sometimes I may have to use extra caution sometimes not. I feel that I'm a mature enough individual to make sound decisions based on my experience. I'm always looking for a better way, and am willing to try different techniques that would improve my productivity, but as you said earlier, one must DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.
By the way, what size are your old POS Hoffmans? Maybe you'd be interested in workin a deal?

 

[056kid]

What makes me think "STUPID" is all this crap about better not tell so and so how to do something because they might not be good enouth to handle it. Cause we do things every day that are risky, we constantly take calculated risks, that we dance on the edge and atleast for me, in addition to the great views, outside work, "national geographic moments" (seeing cool stuff), chance to use my body and get in the flow etc., is why I am a ####ing logger. If some dude wants to ask a ####ing logger is this or that possible, he can. If some dude wants to try this for himself, he can. And he can die. And I can die. And we are not responsible for ech other because nobody made nobody do nothing. Whats the point of this forum, not talking about advanced technique so no nobody tries something over their head? Its Darwin, he'll sort out the mess for us. If a non pro asks a pro something, he'll get (hopefully) a pro answer but PLEASE let each of us be accountable for our own actions. If some dude is stupid enough to cut a tree with 2 leaners in it because he heard it could be done, welll, it can be done, its not safe, but we can explain that it may be possible......DECIDE FOR YOURSELF.

BTW, my new Wesco timber boots are SWEEEEET comapred to my old POS hoffman calks w/ block heels. Weathers good, leaves are turning, couldn't be happier than to be a logger.

Its the basic dumbing down of america,

Making sure people are ####ing retarded frome coast to coast.

Thats why I get so agrivated when smartasses tell me my way of doing things is wrong & dangerous and I am infact un-skilled and careless,

#### then the smartasses post up pics of there saw is binded UNDER a leaning tree cause they didnt notice the lack of sound wood on the upper side of the tree.

 

[Jacob J.]

I had to laugh after reading the latest. So now you are bagging on the YouTubers that are "making 99% of the ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and blind praise" comments as if they are a bunch idiots. That they are unable to discern smooth workmen ship, and generally cannot tell where they might be with their skill set. This is just not true. There are quite a few fallers making comments that have just as much (maybe more) experience as the rest of us.
Unfortunately, you have it backward. The original Humboldt undercut (blocked out undercut) was first. Let’s review. The Humboldt undercut was two parallel cuts put in with a saw (most of the time a foot or two apart). Side note; if the mondo trees did not start off going the right direction, generally, the shot was missed which is one reason why most of the time the cuts were not that far apart, also the smaller blocks were easier to handle. Back on track now… It was then taken out in, a or several, blocks via a peeling bar or corner bit of a cat blade if handy, or what ever else worked. Later on, the fallers started taking the bottom cut out at a angle toward the ground. This is a variation of the original, hence MODIFIED Humboldt. It is easier to get out but not necessarily more acc-u-rat. I got my information from being there, doing the work, and trying variations of all, not second hand. Incidentally, I never heard anyone refer to the original as an old growth Humboldt. Just Humboldt. It does not really matter where you use it or what kind of tree. Side note, if there are special timing needs it is one of the better choices. What you are saying is like the race guys showing up with a 500cc Rotax sporting a bar and chain. Then saying it is a chainsaw because this is how we do it now > ???
My Dad had an adage : those who can’t, teach. Mine is; if you are going to teach, get it right.
Hammerlogger says it best, “thats not finesse, thats chainsaw 101, if I may. (if any feathers are ruffled it was only in a punny sort of way)

I do not believe that just anybody's got it, seen too many fallers that can get em on the ground, but dont have that fluid skillz. The flow. The spirit. And their production falters for it, and they wear out. Suckers.”

Who can argue with that? The HammerMan (if I may call you that?) nails it, except, maybe, for the suckers part. It is pain full to watch, pain full for the guy, and pain full for the trees when it is a "no flow" thing. Just like everone else, I am gulity of this on occasion. I kinda feel sorry for a guy that is always beating his brains out because he cannot seem to figure out the plumb operation. Additionally, you do not go from clumsy doofus saw in the dirt guy, and after someone shows you one time how to look for the color change between the bark and cambium layer, to Mr. Finesse Extraordinaire. That takes time, some never get it. I still hit the deck occasionally, usually the bark is gone though.
I show some things going wrong because it gives others that might try a heads up on what to possibility watch out for. But mostly, it is because I am far from perfect, and can admit it. Not really sure why you would waste the time checking out the videos of a “dumb fool” like me. Do me a favor, don’t bother any more. There is nothing for you to learn. You are obviously smarter, a better faller, and of course better looking than I. Nobody has to ask…
One more poke at the professionalism comment that you made first. In regard to the eBay problems, you make it sound like it was months and months before the parts arrived. You and I both know this is not true either. Unless the P.O. had problems delivering them? There was a time that I had to go out of state to attend to some family matters. Twice within a few days of one another. Everyone that bought parts was understanding , except one… You probably know him though. If there was a real issue, you should have made it known long, long ago. When you do not , it is not me that looks like the snake in the grass. Send them back, I would be happy to give full credit.
It is unfortunate that you feel the need to try and slander me (eBay comments) here on this forum. You must be a very bitter human being, and that is really to bad. I will be praying that you realize we all make mistakes, and that no one is immune from them.
In summation, we could talk on the phone but, it would not get us anywhere. I have never been able to help out the self righteous that are among us.
I wish you the best with your endeavors, though. Good Luck!
_________________________________________

If you are paying attention, there is still some learning to be had!

You misunderstood my post about the "block-out" style Humboldt. I said the block-out style Humboldt came first and then the modified Humboldt (where the bottom cut is angled towards the ground) came along...it was easier to cut the block-out style with crosscuts, and then 'snipe' the front off...either top or bottom. The modified Humboldt was the standard when I went to work in the woods in '90, we just weren't cutting timber big enough to warrant a block-out style cut. Further directional control could be established by leaving a gap where the flat and angled cuts meet on the modern Humboldt...

Finesse does take time to acquire, regardless of the industry. It takes time to build skills and learn control. If we were to take you out of the woods and put you in a helicopter, you wouldn't be smooth or have much finesse right away. However, if you trained and worked with someone who was experienced and could show you the right moves, you'd get it eventually. Most new cutters are painful to watch...

The reason why I mentioned the e-bay deal is that I thought it was quite interesting that you were not willing to communicate with me when I was a customer with a problem, but you wanted to communicate when you though I was 'bagging' on your style. That's very telling of how you operate...
You never mentioned family problems or anything to me (if you had said something, anything- it wouldn't have been an issue.) And it did take two months to get the parts. What you finally told me was that you were busy with work and simply did not have time to ship the parts. I made it known to you immediately and was very easy-going about the situation. You created the acrimony and animosity. I was fixing up saws for log cutter buddies of mine that took a Superior contract down by Gold Beach and needed the extra saws. When I decided you weren't going to send the parts I simply bought new ones. No worries there. I'll gladly send your parts back though.

Your defensive reactions tell me everything I need to know...

 

[Meadow Beaver]

You misunderstood my post about the "block-out" style Humboldt. I said the block-out style Humboldt came first and then the modified Humboldt (where the bottom cut is angled towards the ground) came along...it was easier to cut the block-out style with crosscuts, and then 'snipe' the front off...either top or bottom. The modified Humboldt was the standard when I went to work in the woods in '90, we just weren't cutting timber big enough to warrant a block-out style cut. Further directional control could be established by leaving a gap where the flat and angled cuts meet on the modern Humboldt...

Finesse does take time to acquire, regardless of the industry. It takes time to build skills and learn control. If we were to take you out of the woods and put you in a helicopter, you wouldn't be smooth or have much finesse right away. However, if you trained and worked with someone who was experienced and could show you the right moves, you'd get it eventually. Most new cutters are painful to watch...

The reason why I mentioned the e-bay deal is that I thought it was quite interesting that you were not willing to communicate with me when I was a customer with a problem, but you wanted to communicate when you though I was 'bagging' on your style. That's very telling of how you operate...
You never mentioned family problems or anything to me (if you had said something, anything- it wouldn't have been an issue.) And it did take two months to get the parts. What you finally told me was that you were busy with work and simply did not have time to ship the parts. I made it known to you immediately and was very easy-going about the situation. You created the acrimony and animosity. I was fixing up saws for log cutter buddies of mine that took a Superior contract down by Gold Beach and needed the extra saws. When I decided you weren't going to send the parts I simply bought new ones. No worries there. I'll gladly send your parts back though.

Your defensive reactions tell me everything I need to know...

I'm smell bad blood between the two of you. :fart: :check: :sword: :sword:

 

[hammerlogging]

By the way, what size are your old POS Hoffmans? Maybe you'd be interested in workin a deal?

Not to my worst enemy. 13. Torture chambers, you can really tell once you get back on a pair of decent boots. I'll keep you posted.

 

[fmaglin]

Not to my worst enemy. 13. Torture chambers, you can really tell once you get back on a pair of decent boots. I'll keep you posted.

"Torture Chambers"?

 

[Jacob J.]

I'm smell bad blood between the two of you.

Not as far as I'm concerned. Mistakes happen, I've made plenty myself. It's time to move on...

 

[Tzed250]

Just finished reading this thread, it is just like the rest that came before it.....