short bar + big saw = danger?

[outofstepper]

Greets all. First time poser.. i mean poster. Great place
you have going here.

Had a question.. I've got two saws, my stihl farm boss (workhorse) and
the old poulan pro (295) i started out with long ago. It might be
no surprise that I prefer my stihl . . . the poulan hasn't seen the light
of day in quite some time.

So I got to thinking -- dangerous for me in itself -- could I put a real
short bar on this thing and use it for on-the-ground "pruning" (basically
dealing with the small stuff after the tree is down).

The poulan is about the same size (body) as the stihl.. its all plastic though,
and weighs nothing. . so it could be easier on the arms. And have to give
it credit: starts on two pulls tops, every time. I like to keep good care of
my stuff, but even I didn't expect this from the Plastic Pro.

I was just about to get a 192T when i tripped over my old poulan in the
garage.

The poulan has no bar tensioner. Its one of those in-bar things. So I'd
have to add a tensioning screw.

The point of this long-winded story: would I be crazy to put, say, a 12"
bar on this thing? I'm a machinist by trade so making the bar mods wouldn't
be a big deal.. but is there something I'm missing here? Am I going to kill
myself?

Thanks.

 

[roncoinc]

Greets all. First time poser.. i mean poster. Great place
you have going here.

Had a question.. I've got two saws, my stihl farm boss (workhorse) and
the old poulan pro (295) i started out with long ago. It might be
no surprise that I prefer my stihl . . . the poulan hasn't seen the light
of day in quite some time.

So I got to thinking -- dangerous for me in itself -- could I put a real
short bar on this thing and use it for on-the-ground "pruning" (basically
dealing with the small stuff after the tree is down).

The poulan is about the same size (body) as the stihl.. its all plastic though,
and weighs nothing. . so it could be easier on the arms. And have to give
it credit: starts on two pulls tops, every time. I like to keep good care of
my stuff, but even I didn't expect this from the Plastic Pro.

I was just about to get a 192T when i tripped over my old poulan in the
garage.

The poulan has no bar tensioner. Its one of those in-bar things. So I'd
have to add a tensioning screw.

The point of this long-winded story: would I be crazy to put, say, a 12"
bar on this thing? I'm a machinist by trade so making the bar mods wouldn't
be a big deal.. but is there something I'm missing here? Am I going to kill
myself?

Thanks.

A chainsaw can be dangerouse with any size bar on it.
i would think a short bar would be MORE work with bending down and all.

 

[Chris J.]

Welcome to ArboristSite!

I'll wait for the more experienced users to post answers, as I've been wondering about the same thing for a Stihl 025. About the best I have is I wouldn't go as short as a 12" bar, a 14" bar might balance out a little better.

And there have been a some folks around here who consider the PP295 to be a decent saw.

 

[dingeryote]

Why go so short?

Ya lose flexibility doing that.

If the thing runs and cuts reliably, it's not a bad saw even if it is a Pull-on cheapie.

Dust it off, and use it for all it can be used until it croaks.

Most guys run a 16-18" bar for reach and the occaisional light bucking with thier limb saw. Drop a shaggy silver maple, Elm,etc. and there's lots of 10"+ stuff to cut mixed in with the little stuff, and no point in running back for the other saw 3-4 times.

Agreed on ditching the freak show tensioner though.
Those things are crap.

Good ta have ya posting!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[Scooterbum]

Run a short bar if ya' want.They been running short bars on big saws in Europe for a long time.
It's not anymore dangerous.

 

[L.R.]

Hi!

Here in sweden, 16" is considered pretty long, most people run 12-15". In theory, a smaller bar is actually safer to work with - at least that's the philosophy over here.

I say go for it! If you can make the mods yourself, you'll soon find out if you feel comfortable with a shorter bar on it.

 

[blsnelling]

...could I put a real
short bar on this thing and use it for on-the-ground "pruning" (basically
dealing with the small stuff after the tree is down)...

Yes. Not a problem at all, if that's what you want.

 

[outofstepper]

Thanks for the quick responses!

I just realized one more thing.. the drive sprocket will stay unchanged
(don't want to buy a 'nother one!).. this means I'll have to get a local
shop to shorten my chain.

Its got a 20" bar on there now.. with, I think, a "standard" 3/8" chain?
Whatever it is, this means I'll be (trying to) go down to a 12" bar but
keeping the regular chain.

Is this game changing?

To answer some of the earlier questions.. most of trees around here are
white oak.. they're pretty dense (lots of small branches).. cleaning these
up is a pain swinging a heavy saw left right upside down etc. granted
on the really small stuff I just finish up with a brush axe.. but its those
branches that are 2-4" (and there are alot of them!) that made me look
at the 192T in the first place.

Thanks again! I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[blsnelling]

Honestly, I think you're making more work for yourself with a shorter bar. You're going to be doing more reaching, and not saving hardly any weight at all. The real weight is in the power head. Sell the saw and buy the 192, if that's what you want.

 

[MCW]

Welcome to AS
Firstly you'll struggle to find a 12" bar to take standard 3/8" chain. Shortest bars I've seen in that chain size were 14" and I sold them both to a fellow member here from Canada - by all accounts they are impossible to find and not made anymore. In 12" you're more likely to see 3/8" Low Profile chain which is what the 192T comes with - they are a good saw by the way.
If you tend to cut a lot of limbs at ground level then try to run a longer bar than 12". It'll be easier on your body and the saws you own are by no means heavy. Your "saw fitness" will adjust in no time and soon that 20" bar will be easy.

By the way, shorter bars "can" be more dangerous as they are easier to swing around and clip your legs although that is clutching at straws. Out of all the saws I own I'd have to say that if I ever cut my leg off it'll most likely happen with my Dolmar 5100-S and 18" bar! Can't say I run that risk with my Husky 3120 and 60" bar

 

[StihlyinEly]

Honestly, I think you're making more work for yourself with a shorter bar. You're going to be doing more reaching, and not saving hardly any weight at all.

I agree with Brad on that. I've dropped, limbed and cleaned up a lot of trees for firewood and doing arborist work, and a 45-50cc saw with a 16-inch bar is likely the perfect weight/power/reach combination for cleanup and limbing.

If I spent a day limbing dropped trees with a 12-inch bar, I'd be doing a lot of cussing. Aside from a little baby Tanaka (which I use to prune living trees), nothing I own wears a bar shorter than 16 inches, for the reasons already stated.

 

[outofstepper]

Thanks again.

I'd be modifying the bar I have to make this work. Still on the fence
(thats why I'm posting here).. but thats the plan.

I'll have to take a closer look at all the parts to be sure this is
feasible.. ie oil still goes where it needs to.

A stock shorter bar (12") wouldn't fit over the studs, I don't think.

 

[Gypo Logger]

The only way a short bar can be dangerous is when the operator has been used to cutting with say a 20" most of their life and changes to a 16".
It's not that the 16" is more dangerous, it's just that the operator must change his method and stance and can easily forget where the tip is.
It's just a small learning curve.
Example, I went from a 16" to a 14" on a modded 359 and forgot it wasn't a 16", so I ended up with a couple of KB's as a result. It wasn't the bar, it was me. I have since adapted well to the 14".

The only other way I can describe it is that the head of the penis is larger than the shaft , that way your hand doesn't fly off and hit you in the forehead. lol
John

 

[2dogs]

Well someone has to disagree with all the above posts and it may as well be me. With a small saw I don't think there is any problem at all. When you get into big saws, say 95cc's and above, a short bar can be more dangerous. The danger is in bucking big logs with a short bar. With a big saw, when the nose of the bar hits uncut wood on the off side it can cause a violent kickback. If the bar is way deep in the log then friction will slow the kickback down. If you are not in very deep, maybe less than a foot, then the bar can kickback up out of the cut.

Again in your situation I see no problem other than you may end up with a sore back.

 

[DEG305]

I cut only firewood from cleaning up tops from loggers. the best combo for prunning in my opinion is a lightweight 40 to 50cc saw and an 18 to 20inch bar. It's so much eaiser on the back and arms. The only way I can see using a 12" bar to make work easier is if you are only 4' tall. My lightweight limbing saw is my cs440 Echo(muffler modded) 45cc saw with an 18" bar .325 pitch full chisel chain. while my "big stuff" saw is my J-RED 630 or 670 with 3/8 pitch full chisel. best advice is to keep your limbing saw SHARP.

 

[Rustynutz]

I agree with the guy's on this, being a back pain sufferer, longer the better for me! and you will trash and balance the saw has.

I do have a 12" bar but its on my pole saw now that's a great tool for getting shot of the small stuff, I got my bar and chain from a burnt out electric saw from fleebay 99p + P&P

 

[Stihl-Pioneer]

Thanks again.

I'd be modifying the bar I have to make this work. Still on the fence
(thats why I'm posting here).. but thats the plan.

I'll have to take a closer look at all the parts to be sure this is
feasible.. ie oil still goes where it needs to.

A stock shorter bar (12") wouldn't fit over the studs, I don't think.

Bailey's has this 13" bar that fits your saw. It is close to the 12" you are looking for and you won't have to spend a lot of time modifying the one you have.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=ORF+130MLBK041&catID=

 

[gemniii]

Efco 3600 w/ 10" bar so I can swing it around when up in a tree,

Got tired of swinging a 16" bar to trim 10" limbs. Couldn't see spending $300 for a 192T versus $40 for a B&C for rare use.

 

[L.R.]

Efco 3600 w/ 10" bar so I can swing it around when up in a tree,

Good thinking. Love that saw, well worth the 40 bucks! Is the safety on the chainbrake or what is that plastic zipper?

 

[DSS]

I think you are doing the wrong thing...as was stated, you aren't going to lose much weight, that is mostly in the powerhead.

I shifted from a 16'' bar to a 20'' for limbing and trimming, and what a difference it made. You don't have to bend as much, you can reach farther without throwing yourself off balance.....it's all good.

Sometimes 4'' is a lot and sometimes it isn't, but I think that in this case ,as in life, smaller is not more better...