short bar + big saw = danger?

[outofstepper]

Well, although i'm usually the "why buy it for $2 when you can make it for $20"
guy, I left well enough alone this time. Fitted an old bar tensioner and dug out
a 16" bar (it had a 20 on it). Not the 12 I was looking for, but all in all this
will probably help get this saw back in rotation. I'll keep my eyes peeled for
a shorter one. Now I've got to find a chain. The chain for the 16 bar is
different pitch and I don't have another sprocket. Either that or I'll have my
current chain shortened.

I don't want to open up the 192 v 200 T can of worms, but I may just
pick one of those top handle saws up. There's a small husky in town for
$300.

I know I'm going to get alot of sh*t for this but in my neck of the woods
things are tight. I see some videos on line (eg stihl's videos) and it looks like
they dragged that wood into a lab to buck it. Trees are dense and theres
just no room to move around.. . so I've got to "get in there" with my saw.
This isn't meant to say I'm not safe when I work .. last thing I want is to
trade a good ear or finger for a piece of wood.

So thats why a short saw is handier (maybe -- like I said I've only ever
worked 20" saws +/-). Its just easier to get around. I start as close
to the tops as I can otherwise I'm chasing stuff down hill. Wood is then
carried out by hand most of the time.. at least 10-20 yards on a good
day when I can get the trailer in close.

I'd buy a pack mule if I could but we only got 1 spare room and I don't
think the missus would appreciate one in the house.

 

[ms290]

Personally id go for a longer bar. I recently swapped my 20 on my 441 for the 25 i had rusting. MUCH easier on the back. no bending over to buck small limbs is a great feeling at the end of the day.

 

[pgg]

Top handles having an increased kickback potential sounds plausible in theory. The shorter radius needs more force to control it blah blah blah.
Then you actually USE a top handled saw and realise it's all a load of theoretical crap. In reality the only danger I've seen with top handled saws is for guys that get carried away cutting with one hand and accidentally stick there other hand/arm in the way when pruning. Nothing to do with kickback at all.
Top handled saws are excellent at ground level and guys who say that they have no place but up in a tree have never seen the 10's of 1000's of 192T/200T's sold to ground based pruning contractors within the horticultural industry in Australia - or more likely they have ever used one.
By the way I own a 200T and have never felt theatened
Unfortunately a lot of guys see a top handled saw and think there is something mystical about their use. They are just the same as any other chainsaw and many people other than qualified arborists climbing a tree are able to use them safely.





Monstrous in fact...

Space disagrees that it's a whole bunch of crap, his expert opinions are always based on years of practical experience and masterful knowledge of the subject at hand, so those tens of thousands of forest and horticulture pruners using top handle saws must be doing it all wrong then... tsk tsk, what were we thinking..

 

[sawinredneck]

I disagree as well, I've had them "snap" back at me more than once. But what do I know.

 

[pgg]

LOL, Guess what, we're talking about chainsaws, not childrens toys

 

[sawinredneck]

WOW! Maybe some day I can save up and buy me one of them huh?

 

[pgg]

WOW! Maybe some day I can save up and buy me one of them huh?

Be careful though fella, they've got sharp teeth and they can cut things

 

[sawinredneck]

Yeah, I've heard that, sure would have been nice to have had one of them today when I took down and bucked up the 36" Hedge (that's Osage Orange for most of you) tree. I really gave the axe and bow saw a work out.
Next thing you know, they will come out with some new fangled machine that will make moving the brush and loading the wood easier!

 

[pgg]

LOL, the youngsters today are too spoiled, back in my day when we were logging 5 acres a day all we had were pocket-knives, wooden clubs and an old pack-mule rescued from the glue factory

 

[Gypo Logger]

I agree to a certain extent with you. Some people just should not be in the chainsaw running biz. I saw that in the fire service when skinny females who could run a marathon without breaking a sweat demanded their "rights" after they failed a physical agility test because they could not carry a hose pack or climb over a wall.

Still I like a longer bar so I don't have to bend over. I feel best, or maybe the most natural, with a MS460 or a 371 with a 28" bar. I can almost throw in a Humboldt without looking. I don't really even know why that length bar works so well for me. I prefer a 28" for trees from 20" to 3' in diameter.

But I switch to a smaller lighter saw like a 357 or a 361 at about 20" and smaller.

Lol. I hear ya. I was just mouthing off. Drank too much Fosters Lager last night. Everyone's findings are different, but I sure like the 14" GB Pro Top that MCW sold me from Australia. The max wood I'm cutting is 16" on the stump. I have no idea why I don't get sick of cutting wood. It's an honour though to be cutting wood so close to home, yet so far north. And why this 359 still makes those trees piss their roots, I have no idea.
John

 

[SawTroll]

Short bars never is a problem, if you know what you are doing!

 

[Gypo Logger]

Short bars and big motors rock. I cut alot of wood with an 066 and 16" bar. I remember blowing up a 3120 using a 16" bar, but I think I lean it out too much thinking I'd get more power out of it, but that was when I was young and stupid and had more wood than I knew what to do with. I went to Stihl after that, because Stihl's are fool proof.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Welcome to AS
Firstly you'll struggle to find a 12" bar to take standard 3/8" chain. Shortest bars I've seen in that chain size were 14" and I sold them both to a fellow member here from Canada - by all accounts they are impossible to find and not made anymore. In 12" you're more likely to see 3/8" Low Profile chain which is what the 192T comes with - they are a good saw by the way.
If you tend to cut a lot of limbs at ground level then try to run a longer bar than 12". It'll be easier on your body and the saws you own are by no means heavy. Your "saw fitness" will adjust in no time and soon that 20" bar will be easy.

By the way, shorter bars "can" be more dangerous as they are easier to swing around and clip your legs although that is clutching at straws. Out of all the saws I own I'd have to say that if I ever cut my leg off it'll most likely happen with my Dolmar 5100-S and 18" bar! Can't say I run that risk with my Husky 3120 and 60" bar

That 14" bar rocks MCW. I'm using A1 Carlton now,but can't wait to try Oregon full skip. Can you get me any more of those?
John

 

[Burvol]

Just say no to KB and long bars. Most Sawyers have the big tall Paul complex.
Short bars out cut any of those with a Paul Bunyan complex. So sit on a stump, pack my gas, limb my trees and I'll show you how it's done. Lol
John

Once again, thank God I was born and raised cutting logs on the WEST COAST lol.

 

[Gypo Logger]

I cut only firewood from cleaning up tops from loggers. the best combo for prunning in my opinion is a lightweight 40 to 50cc saw and an 18 to 20inch bar. It's so much eaiser on the back and arms. The only way I can see using a 12" bar to make work easier is if you are only 4' tall. My lightweight limbing saw is my cs440 Echo(muffler modded) 45cc saw with an 18" bar .325 pitch full chisel chain. while my "big stuff" saw is my J-RED 630 or 670 with 3/8 pitch full chisel. best advice is to keep your limbing saw SHARP.

Lol, I'm just a sawed off runt, so I still have to spread my feet when bucking, limbing and falling. I see no justification for a 24" bar unless you're falling 36" timber or have to limb big wood on a down slope. All else is just Paul Bunyan stuff. Lol
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Once again, thank God I was born and raised cutting logs on the WEST COAST lol.

You're a good man Paul. Lol
John

 

[dingeryote]

Short bars never is a problem, if you know what you are doing!

Then why are all those extender pills on the market making billions?

Stay safe!
Dingeeryote

 

[MCW]

Space disagrees that it's a whole bunch of crap, his expert opinions are always based on years of practical experience and masterful knowledge of the subject at hand, so those tens of thousands of forest and horticulture pruners using top handle saws must be doing it all wrong then... tsk tsk, what were we thinking..

We know nuttin...

I disagree as well, I've had them "snap" back at me more than once. But what do I know.

I've had top handles "snap" back at me as well, just like my other saws when you dig the tip in

That 14" bar rocks MCW. I'm using A1 Carlton now,but can't wait to try Oregon full skip. Can you get me any more of those?
John

Sorry John, I set you my last two and GB don't make 'em anymore I always wanted to put one of those 14" 3/8" .050" Pro Tops on my 5100-S but couldn't justify using one of them just to try it out! I'm just glad that somebody is getting good use out of them. Nobody out in Australia would have found a use for them.

 

[sawkiller]

I guess I am the paul bunyan type I am 6'7" and I prefer a longer bar. I am thinking about going to a 24" for my 288xp just so I don't have to bend over as much. Right now I got a 20" on the 288xp and a 18" on a solo 662 and there seems to be a huge difference even though it is only 2".

 

[SawTroll]

Well someone has to disagree with all the above posts and it may as well be me. With a small saw I don't think there is any problem at all. When you get into big saws, say 95cc's and above, a short bar can be more dangerous. The danger is in bucking big logs with a short bar. With a big saw, when the nose of the bar hits uncut wood on the off side it can cause a violent kickback. If the bar is way deep in the log then friction will slow the kickback down. If you are not in very deep, maybe less than a foot, then the bar can kickback up out of the cut.

Again in your situation I see no problem other than you may end up with a sore back.

:agree2:

I often use shorter bars than many on here does, but I am no fan of the really short ones.

On a Swedish forum I have attended lately, I get questions about the long bars that I use.....