Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I send you a copy anyhow Dennis - just to clog up your mailbox:biggrinbounce2:
056mag2 project underway... part one of many
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Some crankcase repairs.. part 1
These repairs aren't on my Mag2 - they are on a Super - but are typical of what happens on many 045/056 you buy.
1) The dog mounts break out. The mag2 has much beefier mounts so you'll find this damage mainly on the other versions of the 045 and 56.
2) The crankcases crack on the flywheel side up near the top left recoil cover mount screw. The crack progress around the housing (basically tracking the flywheel) until it fails completely.
Dennis will die laughing, but it is possible to make a repair using epoxy that will last forever, and look good..
There are many types of epoxy... I use JB weld because it is very strong, has a long pot life and an extended "putty" state (mold it with your finger after two hours). It's also rated at 500F continuous, and 600F intermittent. Most consumer epoxies are 250-300F, which is not enough when you are close to the muffler.. the 5-15 minute epoxies are NOT high temp or strong.
A couple of points about epoxy - It MUST be mixed in the exact proportions required. Any mis-match on the resins and the excess will remain uncured forever as honeycombed particles in a lattice of the hardened product. This is weaker, makes for poor adhesion and can cause problem when exposed to heat. I'm making structural parts, so this is is really important. Eyeballing the amounts isn't sufficient.
I use one of two methods - mix the entire two tubes, or, use a postage scale and mix half. In the case of JB weld, the proportions are 1:1, and the products both weigh the exact same amount (1 oz per tube). I occasionally mix a small amount using measuring spoons, but it's often less than satisfactory.
The second issue is mixing. Epoxy must be mixed completely. Mix, scrape, mix, scrape, mix, mix and mix... Clean off the mixing tool several times and mix again... There's plenty of time, so don't rush.. let it sit for 10-15 minutes, then mix again.
and.. expoy won't adhere to oil or grease... so degrease all parts several times and use a die grinder or whatever to prepare the surface to virgin metal.
So.. lets fix a few parts...
The case dog mounts:
Epoxy is strong, but not particularly good when it has movement or stress applied to it from a harder material - it will abrade rapidly. Dogs and the mounting bolts are a high stress point. I've seen many mounts "repaired" by simply epoxying in the bolts. Not good on an 056 as you now need to take the muffler off to take the dog off... I like to put things back as they were designed.
One solution is to sleeve the bolt, and use a stainless washer on the dog side. This give metal-on-metal for the dog bolts to mount though, and a metal surface for the dog to mount on. I used a small flanged brass sleeve cut down and drilled for the 6mm mount bolts. Mine were just from the junk drawer, and in this case they came from the MS200t vent kits. Most Stihl shops will have dozens of them as they aren't used once the kit is installed.
Here's the bad bottom mount (super 2):
What it's supposed to look like (mag 2) - note the extra strengthening ribs on the Mag2:
Sleeve pushed though top hole to figure depth. I've already ground back the case and cleaned out the junk. The sleeve depth required is about 5.5mm. Many cases are slogged out to the point where there is a lot less, so build it back up.
The parts ready to install:
In the bottom mount hole before epoxy. It's tricky to get the elevation correct when there is no reference section left, but with a little care and fiddling, it all come together. I'm using the 6mm hex bolt as a pattern. Note that the head is covered in food wrap...
Continues..
These repairs aren't on my Mag2 - they are on a Super - but are typical of what happens on many 045/056 you buy.
1) The dog mounts break out. The mag2 has much beefier mounts so you'll find this damage mainly on the other versions of the 045 and 56.
2) The crankcases crack on the flywheel side up near the top left recoil cover mount screw. The crack progress around the housing (basically tracking the flywheel) until it fails completely.
Dennis will die laughing, but it is possible to make a repair using epoxy that will last forever, and look good..
There are many types of epoxy... I use JB weld because it is very strong, has a long pot life and an extended "putty" state (mold it with your finger after two hours). It's also rated at 500F continuous, and 600F intermittent. Most consumer epoxies are 250-300F, which is not enough when you are close to the muffler.. the 5-15 minute epoxies are NOT high temp or strong.
A couple of points about epoxy - It MUST be mixed in the exact proportions required. Any mis-match on the resins and the excess will remain uncured forever as honeycombed particles in a lattice of the hardened product. This is weaker, makes for poor adhesion and can cause problem when exposed to heat. I'm making structural parts, so this is is really important. Eyeballing the amounts isn't sufficient.
I use one of two methods - mix the entire two tubes, or, use a postage scale and mix half. In the case of JB weld, the proportions are 1:1, and the products both weigh the exact same amount (1 oz per tube). I occasionally mix a small amount using measuring spoons, but it's often less than satisfactory.
The second issue is mixing. Epoxy must be mixed completely. Mix, scrape, mix, scrape, mix, mix and mix... Clean off the mixing tool several times and mix again... There's plenty of time, so don't rush.. let it sit for 10-15 minutes, then mix again.
and.. expoy won't adhere to oil or grease... so degrease all parts several times and use a die grinder or whatever to prepare the surface to virgin metal.
So.. lets fix a few parts...
The case dog mounts:
Epoxy is strong, but not particularly good when it has movement or stress applied to it from a harder material - it will abrade rapidly. Dogs and the mounting bolts are a high stress point. I've seen many mounts "repaired" by simply epoxying in the bolts. Not good on an 056 as you now need to take the muffler off to take the dog off... I like to put things back as they were designed.
One solution is to sleeve the bolt, and use a stainless washer on the dog side. This give metal-on-metal for the dog bolts to mount though, and a metal surface for the dog to mount on. I used a small flanged brass sleeve cut down and drilled for the 6mm mount bolts. Mine were just from the junk drawer, and in this case they came from the MS200t vent kits. Most Stihl shops will have dozens of them as they aren't used once the kit is installed.
Here's the bad bottom mount (super 2):
What it's supposed to look like (mag 2) - note the extra strengthening ribs on the Mag2:
Sleeve pushed though top hole to figure depth. I've already ground back the case and cleaned out the junk. The sleeve depth required is about 5.5mm. Many cases are slogged out to the point where there is a lot less, so build it back up.
The parts ready to install:
In the bottom mount hole before epoxy. It's tricky to get the elevation correct when there is no reference section left, but with a little care and fiddling, it all come together. I'm using the 6mm hex bolt as a pattern. Note that the head is covered in food wrap...
Continues..
Last edited:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
crankcase repairs continued
Here's both mounts setting up.. The white blocks near the top mount is a plastic eraser cut and jambed in to make an epoxy dam. Works great...
Epoxy cured... The sleeve in the top mount
Bottom mount:
All togther:
A tiny amount of filing/sanding, and some paint, and it would look even better, but for this saw I don't care. It will be covered in filth in no time..
Here's both mounts setting up.. The white blocks near the top mount is a plastic eraser cut and jambed in to make an epoxy dam. Works great...
Epoxy cured... The sleeve in the top mount
Bottom mount:
All togther:
A tiny amount of filing/sanding, and some paint, and it would look even better, but for this saw I don't care. It will be covered in filth in no time..
Last edited:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Crack repair
I found this crack when I was cleaning off the saw to repair the mounts.. It looks bad, but it is really hard to see. Tapping the case parts and listening for a 'tinny" sound is a good way to find cracks..
It's important to stop-drill (drill a small hole at the end of the crack) any crack. If you don't, it will just continue.
Just smearing epoxy over the crack isn't strong enough. I reinforce the epoxy with stainless steel screen. It bends easily so you can form it to the required curves. I do clean out the crack (open it slightly AFTER stop-drilling) and apply a small amount of epoxy into it.
I make the mesh parts first, apply a coat of epoxy, then press the mesh into it. More epoxy follows.
Done and set. A quick coat of paint and you'd barely be able to tell if it was repaired.
The JB Weld is thick, but it WILL move until it sets up. You need to monitor the movement every 10 minutes or so and re-orient the repair so it flows back. Once it's more putty-like, you can tap it back with your finger.
I found this crack when I was cleaning off the saw to repair the mounts.. It looks bad, but it is really hard to see. Tapping the case parts and listening for a 'tinny" sound is a good way to find cracks..
It's important to stop-drill (drill a small hole at the end of the crack) any crack. If you don't, it will just continue.
Just smearing epoxy over the crack isn't strong enough. I reinforce the epoxy with stainless steel screen. It bends easily so you can form it to the required curves. I do clean out the crack (open it slightly AFTER stop-drilling) and apply a small amount of epoxy into it.
I make the mesh parts first, apply a coat of epoxy, then press the mesh into it. More epoxy follows.
Done and set. A quick coat of paint and you'd barely be able to tell if it was repaired.
The JB Weld is thick, but it WILL move until it sets up. You need to monitor the movement every 10 minutes or so and re-orient the repair so it flows back. Once it's more putty-like, you can tap it back with your finger.
Last edited:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
And.. something a little more challenging
Remember this??? grrr... Well... time to fix it.
Rebuilding with epoxy can restore the shape, much of the strength, but for threads (in this particular case) it will just slog out. The 056 handle mounts are a high stress points that give out in the original mag, so we'll fix that with some decent backing material.
A quick grind with a carbide burr to remove all the old weld (attempt) junk, cut up some T6061 bar stock, and epoxy in an insert to take the top thread. The bottom thread has already been bored out to take a 3/8-16 insert which I made out of some rod stock.
Stainless mesh for strength - there's a couple more small pieces to add after this. The white blocks are a rubber dam siting on the fake handle insert made of nylon (you could use anything and cover it with plastic food wrap).
Epoxy set up..
A little file and sand work and it's ready for paint...
Remember this??? grrr... Well... time to fix it.
Rebuilding with epoxy can restore the shape, much of the strength, but for threads (in this particular case) it will just slog out. The 056 handle mounts are a high stress points that give out in the original mag, so we'll fix that with some decent backing material.
A quick grind with a carbide burr to remove all the old weld (attempt) junk, cut up some T6061 bar stock, and epoxy in an insert to take the top thread. The bottom thread has already been bored out to take a 3/8-16 insert which I made out of some rod stock.
Stainless mesh for strength - there's a couple more small pieces to add after this. The white blocks are a rubber dam siting on the fake handle insert made of nylon (you could use anything and cover it with plastic food wrap).
Epoxy set up..
A little file and sand work and it's ready for paint...
Last edited:
Tzed250
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nice methods and technique...
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Andy is that crack on a non fuel charge area and was heading that direction or merely on the dog support area,,, and on the bronze bushing did you make it on the lathe o did you buy it off the shelf??? would a cylinder shroud bushing been long enough????
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Not sure what you mean but "non-fuel charge area...".. The crack I showed was on the recoil side of the crankcase near the front top recoil cover mount hole.
The bushing is like is said in the post - just the spare part from the MS200T vent kit, cut off to 5.5mm and the drilled out a tad. No lathe work. You might be able to find a shroud bushing (hollow rivet) that was the correct size - I didn't have one though.
The bushing is like is said in the post - just the spare part from the MS200T vent kit, cut off to 5.5mm and the drilled out a tad. No lathe work. You might be able to find a shroud bushing (hollow rivet) that was the correct size - I didn't have one though.
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
An area of the crank case that will not affect case pressure/vacumn or how the unit runs would be a non fuel charge area,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, like a starter or felling dawg mounting area!!! sorry I was not more clear,,,,,,
R2'ed
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Yes.. not a pressure area... never have seen a crack in those parts.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
carb boxes
Here's the original for the 056 and 056 super, and the factory mod to the carb box for the Mag2. It's the same molding - just cut after.
My nice new box on the left will soon have cut-outs like that on the right.
I often see carb air-boxes with a lot of holes drilled in the sides - that was NOT factory. Seems like one major store out here did that and several copied it, some nicely and others not.
Here's the original for the 056 and 056 super, and the factory mod to the carb box for the Mag2. It's the same molding - just cut after.
My nice new box on the left will soon have cut-outs like that on the right.
I often see carb air-boxes with a lot of holes drilled in the sides - that was NOT factory. Seems like one major store out here did that and several copied it, some nicely and others not.
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Do you feel the additional holes help,,, Andy????
Are you going to add any to yours????? :monkey:
Just kidding!!!!!!!!
Its going to look sweet when your done!!!!!!!!!!
Im supposed to have a Mag II located awaiting Pics,,,
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Handles...
Restoration with a non-wrap handle is easy.. just find one and it will fit.
Wrap is another problem. I have found at least 4 different wrap handles made in both steel and aluminum, and variations within those. Most wrap handles I see have had the clutch side bottom cut off to simplify the changing of chains etc.
Here's two - light weight aluminum to the left, steel to the right. Both have been "hacked off" on the clutch side.
Lightweight aluminum. Real light, wimpy, but easy to bend back into shape Same diameter as an older 028 type handle. The is some chance these all came from older 045's..
Steel: The water gets trapped behind the rubber and rusts. They are HEAVY, but certainly strong.. I had to use a hydraulic jack to spread one.
Here's a heavy gauge and thicker tube aluminum full wrap mounted on my 056M2 project. It has the -1901 mount/chain catcher (details to follow).
And... that rough looking Steel handle in the pic above "restored" (sand-blasted, painted, new rubber, new mount) and mounted on an 056Super.
Bottom clutch-side AV mounts/ chain catcher... 4 different mounts, 3 different sizes and matched to three different handles. If you buy an "ebay" wrap handle for an 045/056, you may have some work to do. None of these are now available from Stihl - but some NOS is around...
The -1900 mount/chain catcher is only found on the 045, but you'll often see handles advertised as 045/056.. sure.. with the right mount block.
The -1901 was the first 056 mount/chain catcher. It's similar to the -1901, but wider to get the rubber AV mount away from the chip path and side cover. The handle was shortened laterally on the bottom. Both the -1900 and -1901 get really beat up by the chain that that exposes an M6 screw head. Chains don't like steel screw heads...
Then came the -4400.. Nice simple bracket, cheap to make, BUT it's HEAVY GAUGE STEEL. Nice.. throw a chain and wham... steel on a square steel edge.
O.K.... the LAST version made is the -4401. It mounts between the muffler and the dog, wraps low under the cover and meets up with the handle. It's heavy gauge aluminum alloy. Better on the chains but... you can now also mount the nylon chain catcher 1117-656-7700 (you can see it on the 056 super pic above). This new mount adds about 1/4 inch to the gap than than the -1901 or 4400.. another minor variation of the handle.
continues..
Restoration with a non-wrap handle is easy.. just find one and it will fit.
Wrap is another problem. I have found at least 4 different wrap handles made in both steel and aluminum, and variations within those. Most wrap handles I see have had the clutch side bottom cut off to simplify the changing of chains etc.
Here's two - light weight aluminum to the left, steel to the right. Both have been "hacked off" on the clutch side.
Lightweight aluminum. Real light, wimpy, but easy to bend back into shape Same diameter as an older 028 type handle. The is some chance these all came from older 045's..
Steel: The water gets trapped behind the rubber and rusts. They are HEAVY, but certainly strong.. I had to use a hydraulic jack to spread one.
Here's a heavy gauge and thicker tube aluminum full wrap mounted on my 056M2 project. It has the -1901 mount/chain catcher (details to follow).
And... that rough looking Steel handle in the pic above "restored" (sand-blasted, painted, new rubber, new mount) and mounted on an 056Super.
Bottom clutch-side AV mounts/ chain catcher... 4 different mounts, 3 different sizes and matched to three different handles. If you buy an "ebay" wrap handle for an 045/056, you may have some work to do. None of these are now available from Stihl - but some NOS is around...
The -1900 mount/chain catcher is only found on the 045, but you'll often see handles advertised as 045/056.. sure.. with the right mount block.
The -1901 was the first 056 mount/chain catcher. It's similar to the -1901, but wider to get the rubber AV mount away from the chip path and side cover. The handle was shortened laterally on the bottom. Both the -1900 and -1901 get really beat up by the chain that that exposes an M6 screw head. Chains don't like steel screw heads...
Then came the -4400.. Nice simple bracket, cheap to make, BUT it's HEAVY GAUGE STEEL. Nice.. throw a chain and wham... steel on a square steel edge.
O.K.... the LAST version made is the -4401. It mounts between the muffler and the dog, wraps low under the cover and meets up with the handle. It's heavy gauge aluminum alloy. Better on the chains but... you can now also mount the nylon chain catcher 1117-656-7700 (you can see it on the 056 super pic above). This new mount adds about 1/4 inch to the gap than than the -1901 or 4400.. another minor variation of the handle.
continues..
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Handles... contimued
Here's the -1901 on my Mag2
and the 1117 chain catcher on the Super:
It should be possible to just bend out the handle a little to accommodate the width of the 4401.. sure... the weld on the top shroud stub is really weak.. and you need to bend relative to the stub - not move it.
WRONG! Hmmm... Ignore the tiny scraps of epoxy on the handle - that was a fleeting thought... In this case there were a bunch of bends to take out - not just trying to make it work with the -4401.
This pic is as I'm putting it back together...
It's a real PITA... trying to get three bent parts to fit...
First straighten the handle so it fits both ends... Lot's of careful twists and tweaks. Heat wasn't an option as I wanted the original rubber. Then mount both ends to the saw, and attach the stub to the top shroud.
Pop the handle onto the stub, cut a hole in the handle top, drill a suitable hole for M6 thread into the stub, and thread it...
Apply JB weld to the stub, screw the degreased M6 bolt though the handle and into the stub; tighten. Push some backer foam into the handle hole on top, both sides of the bolt, and fill with JB weld. A little file, sand and paint.. The result is real nice, strong and is on the 056M2 saw in the prior post.
Here's the -1901 on my Mag2
and the 1117 chain catcher on the Super:
It should be possible to just bend out the handle a little to accommodate the width of the 4401.. sure... the weld on the top shroud stub is really weak.. and you need to bend relative to the stub - not move it.
WRONG! Hmmm... Ignore the tiny scraps of epoxy on the handle - that was a fleeting thought... In this case there were a bunch of bends to take out - not just trying to make it work with the -4401.
This pic is as I'm putting it back together...
It's a real PITA... trying to get three bent parts to fit...
First straighten the handle so it fits both ends... Lot's of careful twists and tweaks. Heat wasn't an option as I wanted the original rubber. Then mount both ends to the saw, and attach the stub to the top shroud.
Pop the handle onto the stub, cut a hole in the handle top, drill a suitable hole for M6 thread into the stub, and thread it...
Apply JB weld to the stub, screw the degreased M6 bolt though the handle and into the stub; tighten. Push some backer foam into the handle hole on top, both sides of the bolt, and fill with JB weld. A little file, sand and paint.. The result is real nice, strong and is on the 056M2 saw in the prior post.
Last edited:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Oh Yeah!!!!!!
Thanks to my buddy at Cheapstihlsawparts... I now have a NOS MAGNUM2 model tag!!
Thanks to my buddy at Cheapstihlsawparts... I now have a NOS MAGNUM2 model tag!!
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Sweet!!!!!
she's looking good Andy!!!!!!
opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:
she's looking good Andy!!!!!!
opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
The "looking good" is the easy part. It's figuring out all these little twists and turns over 20 years ago that's the fun...
RiverRat2
Serio Tree Freak
Yeah but!!!!
It shows you've done your home work,,,,,,,
Is there anything you dont do well??????? Like forget to take out the garbage or something??????
It shows you've done your home work,,,,,,,
Is there anything you dont do well??????? Like forget to take out the garbage or something??????
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
You've been talking to my wife, again!!!
