3rd Poulan 330, same exact problem!

[Outlaw5.0]

These carbs can be had from around 12.6 mm to 16.66mm I'm thinking that the 16.66 is just to big for a 55cc saw, around 14 to 15 mm should work. My 80cc saw runs a 16.67 mm carb. Steve

I was amazed at how big the carb is!. The choke and throttle bore are .748-.749, which is 18.99-19.02mm. I deburred the venturi on my good carb, it is .670 or 17.01mm.

For comparison, the carb on my Stihl MS460 started at 16.77mm on the venturi, I deburred it which made it 17.52mm.

These saws will really respond to the 60cc upgrade. I bet the HDA-49 carb will work great on the 330 54cc model.

 

[Cliff R]

"Cliff, I mention this before and I still think you should just give up and return the saw.
Look at what these saws have done. They've wasted your time, not to mention the frustation and ever worst your've more or less stated you don't trust anyone on this site.
No, these saws are not worth the headache's."

Well, I can tell you for certain they are NOT worth the headaches if you demand perfection from your equipment.

Sure, good advice to return the saw. I took this as sort of a challenge, and ran the thread as well, hoping others would not fall into this pit-fall. I was hoping the entire time that I would figure out exactly what's going on here, and be able to tell others, here, do this and that and the troubles are over, etc. We are NOT there yet.

I did follow thru and cut up a big Maple log today with it. Although it ran flawlessly at full load in the cut, it is still hunting some at idle. I didn't worry with that, just kept cutting. I did stop half way thru the log and take the saw to the shop and port the muffler. These saws are WAY down on power without this modification. I couldn't believe how much faster it cut in the same log after the muffler mod. Before the mod if you even got close to running most of the 22" bar and put any pressure on it, she'd stall right down against the clutch. After the muffler mod, the saw stayed in the real power range much easier, with more "grunt" at lower rpm's as well.

I also took some additional time trying to tune the carb a bit. I took it back off and made a path with a small round jewelers file around the high speed nozzle, on the opposite side of the "hump" in the venturi. I took the same file and ever so slightly opened up the throttle plate more in line with the idle feed hole. The idea was to provide a straight path for the air right at the idle discharge hole in the bore.

This was not completely successful, but it did improve the idle quality and limited the "hunting" significantly. At one point I let the saw idle over 30 minutes while I cut up some limbs with a smaller saw, and it didn't stall out, and revved up fine when I went to use it again.

It still acts just a tad lean when you come out of the cut, taking a few seconds to "settle down", but it's a lot better than before the modification. This engine also enjoys a much higher idle RPM than any modern saw I've ever worked with. Reminded me of the days trying in vain to tune the old MAC's with the C-1 carbs.

I'm going to hold off returning the saw now that I'm made a few "baby steps" in the right direction. Looking at the big picture here, I'm nailing down the carburetor as the culprit here, so we'll consider swapping on a new HDA-49.....Cliff

 

[7sleeper]

...

I also took some additional time trying to tune the carb a bit. I took it back off and made a path with a small round jewelers file around the high speed nozzle, on the opposite side of the "hump" in the venturi. I took the same file and ever so slightly opened up the throttle plate more in line with the idle feed hole. The idea was to provide a straight path for the air right at the idle discharge hole in the bore.

This was not completely successful, but it did improve the idle quality and limited the "hunting" significantly. At one point I let the saw idle over 30 minutes while I cut up some limbs with a smaller saw, and it didn't stall out, and revved up fine when I went to use it again.

It still acts just a tad lean when you come out of the cut, taking a few seconds to "settle down", but it's a lot better than before the modification. This engine also enjoys a much higher idle RPM than any modern saw I've ever worked with. Reminded me of the days trying in vain to tune the old MAC's with the C-1 carbs.

I'm going to hold off returning the saw now that I'm made a few "baby steps" in the right direction. Looking at the big picture here, I'm nailing down the carburetor as the culprit here, so we'll consider swapping on a new HDA-49.....Cliff

Great news! Keep on looking! I mean all other threads we had here in the last weeks were "What saw should I buy...". This has been interesting to the point that someone has had the bad luck of having three models all highly probable with a bad carb. I mean don't be insulted when I say can I move about a football field away when your cutting down a tree! Sheesh that's what I call bad luck! But know it sounds like your back on track.
But for me it's always easy to say anything. I'm a few thousand miles away and don't have your problems. But I must say this has been really interesting.

What I do miss is that no one has posted any photos of there "working" carb so that you could also post photos of "yours" so that the problem might "visualy" pop into our eyes!

Good luck

7

 

[volks-man]

"Cliff, I mention this before and I still think you should just give up and return the saw.
Look at what these saws have done. They've wasted your time, not to mention the frustation and ever worst your've more or less stated you don't trust anyone on this site.
No, these saws are not worth the headache's."

Well, I can tell you for certain they are NOT worth the headaches if you demand perfection from your equipment.

Sure, good advice to return the saw. I took this as sort of a challenge, and ran the thread as well, hoping others would not fall into this pit-fall. I was hoping the entire time that I would figure out exactly what's going on here, and be able to tell others, here, do this and that and the troubles are over, etc. We are NOT there yet.

I did follow thru and cut up a big Maple log today with it. Although it ran flawlessly at full load in the cut, it is still hunting some at idle. I didn't worry with that, just kept cutting. I did stop half way thru the log and take the saw to the shop and port the muffler. These saws are WAY down on power without this modification. I couldn't believe how much faster it cut in the same log after the muffler mod. Before the mod if you even got close to running most of the 22" bar and put any pressure on it, she'd stall right down against the clutch. After the muffler mod, the saw stayed in the real power range much easier, with more "grunt" at lower rpm's as well.

I also took some additional time trying to tune the carb a bit. I took it back off and made a path with a small round jewelers file around the high speed nozzle, on the opposite side of the "hump" in the venturi. I took the same file and ever so slightly opened up the throttle plate more in line with the idle feed hole. The idea was to provide a straight path for the air right at the idle discharge hole in the bore.

This was not completely successful, but it did improve the idle quality and limited the "hunting" significantly. At one point I let the saw idle over 30 minutes while I cut up some limbs with a smaller saw, and it didn't stall out, and revved up fine when I went to use it again.

It still acts just a tad lean when you come out of the cut, taking a few seconds to "settle down", but it's a lot better than before the modification. This engine also enjoys a much higher idle RPM than any modern saw I've ever worked with. Reminded me of the days trying in vain to tune the old MAC's with the C-1 carbs.

I'm going to hold off returning the saw now that I'm made a few "baby steps" in the right direction. Looking at the big picture here, I'm nailing down the carburetor as the culprit here, so we'll consider swapping on a new HDA-49.....Cliff

so, are you thinking of picking up poulan as a sponsor again?

 

[mountainlake]

If this turns into a $30 to $50 fix by putting on a new carb it will still be a good buy if the rest of the saw is built good. I'd be looking for a 14 to 15 mm carb, 12.6 might hurt the top end power to much. Steve

 

[joecool85]

Keep us posted as I'm pretty interested in how this all turns out. My saw just started some of these symptoms, although not at all as bad as yours have been. 4 tanks through it so far. Great power in the cut, and I haven't even muffler modded it. Figured I'd get 10-12 tanks through it first and see how I like it before playing with it that much.

 

[Banshee]

If this turns into a $30 to $50 fix by putting on a new carb it will still be a good buy if the rest of the saw is built good. I'd be looking for a 14 to 15 mm carb, 12.6 might hurt the top end power to much. Steve

I maybe wrong, but are you saying it's too much carb for the saw? If so why not port and muffler modd to allow the saw to be able to have more flow?

Mine shows not sign of this problem after modds.

 

[Cliff R]

"so, are you thinking of picking up poulan as a sponsor again?"

Unlikely, just trying to solve a very difficult fundamental problem. As mentioned several times, I demand perfection from my equipment. Overall the 330 is a decent saw, somewhat heavy, but good power for 54cc with an 18" bar on it.

I'm also motivated to see if an American Company can produce a product that will rival the German and Swedish stuff. I also pride myself in being able to fix things, so have tried to stick with this thing.

A couple of possibilities here with this particular saw. Poulan may have sat on these saws knowing full well there was a problem with them? I say that because all correspondence between myself and Poulan IMMEDIATELY ceased when I suggested this may be the case. I went on to send several emails, not a word back, and prior to that I got a very prompt response from each and every one of them.

I also think more folks aren't complaining because the idle is set so high. The lower you try to set the base idle speed, the worse the problem becomes. At a very fast idle speed, the saw is up against the clutch as it tries to go lean and rev-up, holding it back some, or at least keeping the idle speed relatively the same/less fluctuation. With all three of these saws, if I tried to slow the idle speed down to "normal" rpm's they started acting up, and a lot more noticable.

In any case, my little carburetor modification made the saw run much better at idle, and right off idle throttle response is also excellent. No more "lean dip" in the fuel curve either, which was present with all three saws if you tried to increase the throttle opening slowly.

Last note, all three saws ran fine at WOT, and never once gave any symptoms of acting lean, or going lean in the cut. They instantly started 4-stroking when the load was removed from them. This hinted to me that the fuel level and fuel system, case seals, intake boot, etc was NOT the problem......Cliff

 

[Banshee]

Keep us posted as I'm pretty interested in how this all turns out. My saw just started some of these symptoms, although not at all as bad as yours have been. 4 tanks through it so far. Great power in the cut, and I haven't even muffler modded it. Figured I'd get 10-12 tanks through it first and see how I like it before playing with it that much.

I've already modded mine and I can tell you this the saw modds very well. I had maybe 3 tanks though mine. I can't wait until it fully breaks in.
I had some of the symptons mentioned also, but after the modds no sign of the problem what so ever.

My modds are muffler, mild cylinder port, timing advanced, removed the cylinder gasket. I also swapped the clutch out for a 380 clutch.

 

[mountainlake]

I maybe wrong, but are you saying it's too much carb for the saw? If so why not port and muffler modd to allow the saw to be able to have more flow?

Mine shows not sign of this problem after modds.

Yes I think it's too big a carb for a 55cc saw compared to other saws. A port job (which a lot of people wont do or be willing to pay for) and a muffler mod wont increase air flow at idle which is where the problem is. It could affect the back pressure which might affect the carb, keeping the air flow more even . Steve

 

[Modifiedmark]

If this turns into a $30 to $50 fix by putting on a new carb it will still be a good buy if the rest of the saw is built good. I'd be looking for a 14 to 15 mm carb, 12.6 might hurt the top end power to much. Steve

Well Steve on paper you could be right, but I have run my 60cc Poulan Pro 365 alot with that HDA-49 carb on it and it works very well.

But I have to say you now have me thinking about picking up a HDA-164 like the one on my 330 just to see if the larger carb will pick up anything extra on the 365.

I also got another tank ran through the 330 today and it is still running and idling very well.

 

[cuznguido]

Just my two-cents on this topic. We have lost sight of the original attraction of this saw, which was, it is a really good deal and a lot of saw for the money. Mine has exhibited a bit of the idle problem, but not enough to get my panties in a wad. If one expects it to run like a $600 saw then one should expect it to cost $600. I have beat on mine mercilessly for about three weeks now, and the worst thing to be said for it is it SOMETIMES idles funny and occasionally dies, but it always restarts on one pull. Suits me. I got my money's worth.

 

[Cliff R]

Very good point, and I'm sure that's why we haven't seen more complaints. If it runs OK, and hunts around at idle, but cuts well and gets the job done, $200 well spent.

I'm just a tad more of a perfectionist than that. Bad habit of mine, I guess? Things that don't work correctly get my attention, and I'm hell bent of fixing them.

My 268XP started giving me troubles last year, after many, many years of flawless service. I spent considerable time/funds getting it back into perfect working order, to me, it was time and money well spent.

I ran the 268XP today, had the 20" bar completely buried cross cutting some large/knotty peices from the 5 Maple trees I just took down. They were just too big to handle without halving them. It went thru them effortlessly, and really made me appreciate my efforts at getting one of my old favorites back in service.

As far as the Poulan 330, I hope that at least a few folks who have followed some of this can make a decision as to whether you want to fool with one or not? For me, it's not worked out to be a "screamin" deal, that's for sure. It may be some time before I swap out the carb for a different one, maybe even the HDA-49. I'll update the thread when this happens or start another one.....Cliff

 

[Banshee]

As far as the Poulan 330, I hope that at least a few folks who have followed some of this can make a decision as to whether you want to fool with one or not? For me, it's not worked out to be a "screamin" deal, that's for sure. It may be some time before I swap out the carb for a different one, maybe even the HDA-49. I'll update the thread when this happens or start another one.....Cliff

Cliff,

You post, post after post, after post, after post on how big POS these saws are and how much you hate the saw, but continue to keep yours.

All you have to do is return it and get you money back.

In fact anyone who buys one and gets one of these bad ones can do the same and return theirs too. So what are they really risking?

So some of these saws idle funny. I remember a Husky 350 I had that would do the exact same thing and I paid more for it used than this one new.
I cut with the 350 for almost two years without problems even though it idle funny. Who cuts at idle anyway?

Do yourself a favor and return the saw and take the money and go find yourself a another 262xp.

 

[thomas72]

What is the rpms of your saw at idle? Also, you can not compare the new style poulan to any other professional saw. I have seen the 330 and it is just a better homeowner saw and not intended for professional use. The last true professional Poulan that was manufactured in Louisiana is the 8500 I think. I would say compare that saw to the saws of its time and then you can have a serious discussion about a professional poulan with European opposition.

 

[Cliff R]

"You post, post after post, after post, after post on how big POS these saws are and how much you hate the saw, but continue to keep yours."

I thought I was trying to solve a fundamental and deeply rooted problem with all three saws we aquired?

The first one was returned for a replacment after nothing could be found wrong anyplace. I had already purchased a second saw when this happened, and it was sitting in the box. The replacement saw was messed up as well, so it was returned for my money back.

I decided (you know I can make decisions since I'm now 51 years old), just for the heck of it to gas up the third saw just to see if it did the same thing as the first two. Which it did.

Being a long holiday weekend, I made another decision to go a little deeper into this saw to try to find the problem. I can not find the problem, but am 95 percent sure that it is some sort of defect with the carburetor.

As a last ditch effort, I made another decision today to mod the carb some in the area(s) that I suspected may be contributing to the problems. Some improvment came from those modifications, but the problem(s) still persist, but at a much lesser level.

My personal feelings about Poulan saws (if you've really got to know), most of them aren't worth the fuel it takes to get to the store to pick them up. We get re-badge Husqvarna's, Sears, and the Department store Poulan's in here on occassion for repairs. Matter of fact, just got one up and running for my UPS driver last week. I don't particularily like their newer models, and I've been up front about that fact. Poulan may have made some "professional" saws at some point, but I've never seen one, never had one brought in here for repairs, and have never known anyone to own one. This area is "saturated" with Stihl's and Husqvarna's, has been since the early 1980's.

The 330 was rumored as one of the last of the "good" ones, with some professional features, well built, etc, etc.

This information intrigued me enough to test them out. Overall, if they didn't have this quirkly idle deal, they are decent saws, not a complete POS like most of the stuff I get in from Poulan.

Anyhow, I've tried to stay positive, an un-biased during this thread. Bottom line here, it's just a chainsaw, it's my money not anyone elses, and if any of my efforts help someone else, it was worth my time. For the rest, if you don't like the information, or I didn't sugar coat some of it enough, I'm truely sorry.

"What is the rpms of your saw at idle? Also, you can not compare the new style poulan to any other professional saw. I have seen the 330 and it is just a better homeowner saw and not intended for professional use."

I didn't check the actual rpms with a tach. It requires a fast idle speed than any other saw I own, unless you want it to stall out when it "settles down" after speeding up/going lean momentarily. The progress I made today allowed for a leaner idle setting, lower idle rpm, and it did not stall out once, even idling for 30 minutes at one point.

There's nothing else to report. The next reply woln't be until I do a carb swap, and more testing, which may be several weeks from now......Cliff

 

[joecool85]

"You post, post after post, after post, after post on how big POS these saws are and how much you hate the saw, but continue to keep yours."

I thought I was trying to solve a fundamental and deeply rooted problem with all three saws we aquired?

The first one was returned for a replacment after nothing could be found wrong anyplace. I had already purchased a second saw when this happened, and it was sitting in the box. The replacement saw was messed up as well, so it was returned for my money back.

I decided (you know I can make decisions since I'm now 51 years old), just for the heck of it to gas up the third saw just to see if it did the same thing as the first two. Which it did.

Being a long holiday weekend, I made another decision to go a little deeper into this saw to try to find the problem. I can not find the problem, but am 95 percent sure that it is some sort of defect with the carburetor.

As a last ditch effort, I made another decision today to mod the carb some in the area(s) that I suspected may be contributing to the problems. Some improvment came from those modifications, but the problem(s) still persist, but at a much lesser level.

My personal feelings about Poulan saws (if you've really got to know), most of them aren't worth the fuel it takes to get to the store to pick them up. We get re-badge Husqvarna's, Sears, and the Department store Poulan's in here on occassion for repairs. Matter of fact, just got one up and running for my UPS driver last week. I don't particularily like their newer models, and I've been up front about that fact. Poulan may have made some "professional" saws at some point, but I've never seen one, never had one brought in here for repairs, and have never known anyone to own one. This area is "saturated" with Stihl's and Husqvarna's, has been since the early 1980's.

The 330 was rumored as one of the last of the "good" ones, with some professional features, well built, etc, etc.

This information intrigued me enough to test them out. Overall, if they didn't have this quirkly idle deal, they are decent saws, not a complete POS like most of the stuff I get in from Poulan.

Anyhow, I've tried to stay positive, an un-biased during this thread. Bottom line here, it's just a chainsaw, it's my money not anyone elses, and if any of my efforts help someone else, it was worth my time. For the rest, if you don't like the information, or I didn't sugar coat some of it enough, I'm truely sorry.

"What is the rpms of your saw at idle? Also, you can not compare the new style poulan to any other professional saw. I have seen the 330 and it is just a better homeowner saw and not intended for professional use."

I didn't check the actual rpms with a tach. It requires a fast idle speed than any other saw I own, unless you want it to stall out when it "settles down" after speeding up/going lean momentarily. The progress I made today allowed for a leaner idle setting, lower idle rpm, and it did not stall out once, even idling for 30 minutes at one point.

There's nothing else to report. The next reply woln't be until I do a carb swap, and more testing, which may be several weeks from now......Cliff

If you could please keep it in this thread, or have a link to the new one in here, that'd be great. I don't always look for new threads, most of the time I check my subscribed threads and go from there.

 

[Cliff R]

Will do. I'm was hoping I'd get more direction as to whether or not the HDA49 carb would work on this saw? That's sort of the way I'm leaning right now, as don't know whether all the 164 carbs are going to act exactly the same way? In other words, I could buy a new replacment 164, and if I see no improvment, I'd be no further ahead than I am right now. The problem may simply be that basic design/layout of the 330 is not well suited to that particular carburetor, something similiar to putting a Holley 850 double pumper carb on a stock 1995 Chevy 305 truck engine, for example.

I went thru my pile of carbs yesterday, and did notice that the carbs used on 50-55cc saws hae a pretty small diameter compared to what the 330 is using.

I also built a 268XP once from a 61, and used the smaller 61 carburetor on it, with excellent results, so I'm thinking the smaller carb woln't kill off the power on the 330......but the only way to really know is to try it.....Cliff

 

[7sleeper]

.....
with excellent results, so I'm thinking the smaller carb woln't kill off the power on the 330......but the only way to really know is to try it.....Cliff

Now what are you waiting for!?! I mean how long do we bystanders have to wait for some new results?
opcorn:

Good luck!

7

 

[Streblerm]

Will do. I'm was hoping I'd get more direction as to whether or not the HDA49 carb would work on this saw? That's sort of the way I'm leaning right now, as don't know whether all the 164 carbs are going to act exactly the same way? In other words, I could buy a new replacment 164, and if I see no improvment, I'd be no further ahead than I am right now. The problem may simply be that basic design/layout of the 330 is not well suited to that particular carburetor, something similiar to putting a Holley 850 double pumper carb on a stock 1995 Chevy 305 truck engine, for example.

I went thru my pile of carbs yesterday, and did notice that the carbs used on 50-55cc saws hae a pretty small diameter compared to what the 330 is using.

I also built a 268XP once from a 61, and used the smaller 61 carburetor on it, with excellent results, so I'm thinking the smaller carb woln't kill off the power on the 330......but the only way to really know is to try it.....Cliff

I've said it before, and I have no stake in these saws whatsoever. My new 330 idles flawlessly. I wouldn't put up with a fluctuating idle either, it would drive me nuts. I also purchased a 2000 vintage 330 on e-bay shortly after I bought the new one. It idles fine too.

Going lean out of the cut (slow to return to idle) I did experience. That was solved by tweaking the L screw just a tad richer. I do notice that they want to idle pretty fast, but I can easily get them low enough not to turn the chain, which is low enough for me. As a matter of fact, I actually lowered the idle a bit from the factory setting. Throttle response is good and power is good too.

What I'm getting at here is that I'm not sure if my tolerance for a higher than normal idle (sorry, I don't have a tach) is masking the idle problem you are experiencing, or if my saws don't have the problem at all. If I set the idle lower, it wants to stall, but it doesn't seem to "hunt".

I still suspect that the carburetors are the problem here. lean idle surge always reeks of an epa mandated carb that is set too lean.

Anyway, here are the serials from my saws:

new one: 07011D301405

2000 model: 00255D300151-2

BTW, as I was searching for parts for my e-bay special, I came across several part#'s shared between this saw and the Husky 55. I didn't go in depth, but the clutch parts seem to be the same.