440/460 vs. 372--another Husky vs. Stihl ?
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Hi Rick.
It sounds to me like you're understanding what I've said. I don't know, though, if I'd go so far as to say all Stihls are made maxxed-out more-so than other brands, and I'm pretty sure I haven't said that yet. I do know the 066 has been touted as being the best port-timed &c. saw here in the past (as in "it's hard to get much more out of it"), and by the numbers the 460 seems to be making the most power per cubic whatever right now (even more than the 066). All things being equal (an oversimplification), that would indicate a few more turns of the rubber band so to speak.
I understand that the Stihl pro saws are still all pretty much using one transfer per side whereas some of the other brands are using two now. The more the better, right? I mean, the new 361 is using two each and it's making more power per displacement than the 360 it's evidently replacing (the 360 isn't even on the comparison chart at stihlusa.com anymore). Even if the two don't flow more overall than one, there are directional flow into the combustion chamber capabilities and/or staggered timing options available via them.
Raw power figures don't tell the whole story, though. And as you point out, there are other factors which might make one piece of equipment "better" than another in the minds of different folks. A mere fraction of a horsepower difference can be pretty hard to discern in my experience; same for minor differences in weight.
I guess what I was vaguely touching on earlier is this: for the same money (yes, the same, in the big, long-term picture for the average person) one can get a saw which arrives using most of it's potential, or one can get a saw which is capable of having it's potential readily extended. As to which one comprises the better value depends on the user's perspective. If they don't want to spend any further time or money on it, the untapped potential is wasted, both in it's very existence and the cost necessary for it. In that case I'd suppose there's a possibility the manufacturing resources could be juggled to either provide the more power from the start (and why wasn't it?) or to lessen the expense necessary for the same power level by not over-engineering the product. If the user wants to expend further resources to wring the most out of the product then the built-in but untapped potential is clearly the more economical choice for them. And if they can mail-order the saw and get it even cheaper to start with, then hallelujah!
I suppose that'll all get wrested into pro-Stihl anti-anything-else...
Glen
It sounds to me like you're understanding what I've said. I don't know, though, if I'd go so far as to say all Stihls are made maxxed-out more-so than other brands, and I'm pretty sure I haven't said that yet. I do know the 066 has been touted as being the best port-timed &c. saw here in the past (as in "it's hard to get much more out of it"), and by the numbers the 460 seems to be making the most power per cubic whatever right now (even more than the 066). All things being equal (an oversimplification), that would indicate a few more turns of the rubber band so to speak.
I understand that the Stihl pro saws are still all pretty much using one transfer per side whereas some of the other brands are using two now. The more the better, right? I mean, the new 361 is using two each and it's making more power per displacement than the 360 it's evidently replacing (the 360 isn't even on the comparison chart at stihlusa.com anymore). Even if the two don't flow more overall than one, there are directional flow into the combustion chamber capabilities and/or staggered timing options available via them.
Raw power figures don't tell the whole story, though. And as you point out, there are other factors which might make one piece of equipment "better" than another in the minds of different folks. A mere fraction of a horsepower difference can be pretty hard to discern in my experience; same for minor differences in weight.
I guess what I was vaguely touching on earlier is this: for the same money (yes, the same, in the big, long-term picture for the average person) one can get a saw which arrives using most of it's potential, or one can get a saw which is capable of having it's potential readily extended. As to which one comprises the better value depends on the user's perspective. If they don't want to spend any further time or money on it, the untapped potential is wasted, both in it's very existence and the cost necessary for it. In that case I'd suppose there's a possibility the manufacturing resources could be juggled to either provide the more power from the start (and why wasn't it?) or to lessen the expense necessary for the same power level by not over-engineering the product. If the user wants to expend further resources to wring the most out of the product then the built-in but untapped potential is clearly the more economical choice for them. And if they can mail-order the saw and get it even cheaper to start with, then hallelujah!
I suppose that'll all get wrested into pro-Stihl anti-anything-else...
Glen
Hola Russ. I see we're still on speaking terms (as it should be).
What did I contrive? You're defending me against the 460 when I said I liked the Dolmar. I think the contrivance is being mis-accused here.
I've always liked your style, Russ, and I fully concur with your rationale for using it; but I sometimes wonder why you set up a straw man out of what I've said and then proceed to slay him.
The collective intelligence here can seem a bit scary, I'll grant you that, but it's sure (usually) a fun place anyway.
It's good to be back in an odd sort of way; thanks.
Glen
What did I contrive? You're defending me against the 460 when I said I liked the Dolmar. I think the contrivance is being mis-accused here.
I've always liked your style, Russ, and I fully concur with your rationale for using it; but I sometimes wonder why you set up a straw man out of what I've said and then proceed to slay him.
The collective intelligence here can seem a bit scary, I'll grant you that, but it's sure (usually) a fun place anyway.
It's good to be back in an odd sort of way; thanks.
Glen
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Glen,
Although I NEVER misunderstand anyone else, it is possible that I have taken you out of context on occassion.
You are a sport Glen, and what I call a "manly man", and that`s said with a certain measure of admiration, not sarcasm. You will stand and go toe to toe no matter how daunting and overwhelming my argument may seem due to it`s inherent righteousness. You are in good company, surrounded by the likes of bwalker, Rocky J Squirrel, Fish, Mike Maas, relative newcomer Drew78, and maybe even SasquatchMan, time will tell if he`s got the stuff.
Back in the day when I had a drinking team, you would have made the cut if you had so chosen. Now that I operate primarily alone, I am more the silent but deadly type.
Russ
Prosaic Pugilist
Although I NEVER misunderstand anyone else, it is possible that I have taken you out of context on occassion.
You are a sport Glen, and what I call a "manly man", and that`s said with a certain measure of admiration, not sarcasm. You will stand and go toe to toe no matter how daunting and overwhelming my argument may seem due to it`s inherent righteousness. You are in good company, surrounded by the likes of bwalker, Rocky J Squirrel, Fish, Mike Maas, relative newcomer Drew78, and maybe even SasquatchMan, time will tell if he`s got the stuff.
Back in the day when I had a drinking team, you would have made the cut if you had so chosen. Now that I operate primarily alone, I am more the silent but deadly type.
Russ
Prosaic Pugilist
Pacific
ArboristSite Operative
Lets put it this way the only saw used in this area by the fallers is Stihl 46 and 66 falling tons and tons of wood. Each off highway logging truck is carrying 80 ton load of wood out of the bush working a 10 hour day alot of wood is dumped into the water.
Then you go into the saw shops that sell and repair Stihl and Husky saws and you look around at the repair shop and see nothing but dead Husky saws that lived a short life.
There is a difference between somebody playing with a saw and making their living with a saw.
The West Coast fallers here make 400 dollars a day if their saw doesn't run they are not making any money and the logging company they are working for isn't getting the timber out of the bush. The trees in this area a 90% hand falled a feller buncher is only used for the pecker poles that are on flat ground.
I bet Stihl saws have fallen more timber in this area in one month than what gets falled in the eastern States for the whole year
Then you go into the saw shops that sell and repair Stihl and Husky saws and you look around at the repair shop and see nothing but dead Husky saws that lived a short life.
There is a difference between somebody playing with a saw and making their living with a saw.
The West Coast fallers here make 400 dollars a day if their saw doesn't run they are not making any money and the logging company they are working for isn't getting the timber out of the bush. The trees in this area a 90% hand falled a feller buncher is only used for the pecker poles that are on flat ground.
I bet Stihl saws have fallen more timber in this area in one month than what gets falled in the eastern States for the whole year
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Did I just hear a burble from the fish bowl? HA HA HA HA!
Russ
Russ
ehp
Addicted to ArboristSite
for what it is worth here is my 2 cents, i have owned many of both saws and you have to think that the saw will be used in the cold as much as in the heat.
which saw is tougher for me that would be the 460, stronger mounts
but the 372 is better in the vibration , which means alot to us guys that have white finger
but when it comes to which saw has the best heated handles and more important heated carbs the stihl wins hands down, husky has no quite caught up yet but is coming on with better stuff
now we all know that the 372 takes good to mods but the 460 ,if you take them stock with that piss ass muffler they are using will make more gains than the husky and will really turn on once you have the mods done to them
which one would i use , well in the summer i would run a ported 372 but once the snow got deep i would have to run a ported 460arctic or if the trees are big a 660 arctic and up here they are close to the same on cost
which saw is tougher for me that would be the 460, stronger mounts
but the 372 is better in the vibration , which means alot to us guys that have white finger
but when it comes to which saw has the best heated handles and more important heated carbs the stihl wins hands down, husky has no quite caught up yet but is coming on with better stuff
now we all know that the 372 takes good to mods but the 460 ,if you take them stock with that piss ass muffler they are using will make more gains than the husky and will really turn on once you have the mods done to them
which one would i use , well in the summer i would run a ported 372 but once the snow got deep i would have to run a ported 460arctic or if the trees are big a 660 arctic and up here they are close to the same on cost
We had one of them when I was in college. We also had a incident that invloved 5 guys, a half barrel and some Depends undergarmets.
lucky
ArboristSite Guru
Why is 460 always being compared to the 372? The 372 is lighter, has a smaller displacement and is a better comparison for the 440. I know, I know you guys say the 372 will cut with a 460 and yeah it probably will that is until you get into big wood. Most any saw will blow through 12 inch balsa.
Pacific has a good point about stihls being popular with pro loggers. They are durable and hold resale value.
I realize the 7900 is a hot rod but isn't the dolmar 7300 a better more similar comparison for the 440 and 372?
The fact that dolmar can get that much power and so little weight is surprising. If this saw will keep up with an 066 then I would like to know how they made it two pounds lighter? Where did all the weight go? I don't think stihl would add more weight to their saws than necessary. So is the dolmar built so light that it will have durability issues? Only time will tell. John
Pacific has a good point about stihls being popular with pro loggers. They are durable and hold resale value.
I realize the 7900 is a hot rod but isn't the dolmar 7300 a better more similar comparison for the 440 and 372?
The fact that dolmar can get that much power and so little weight is surprising. If this saw will keep up with an 066 then I would like to know how they made it two pounds lighter? Where did all the weight go? I don't think stihl would add more weight to their saws than necessary. So is the dolmar built so light that it will have durability issues? Only time will tell. John
Its not a 15 year old design.
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What gives with this???
Kneejerk Bombas
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I suspect thaty has to do with Dolmar having a smaller market share. They need to have some edge to give the buyer confidence. Stihl and Husky have more market farmiliarity and can sell their products without the long warrenty, especially to pro users.
ehp
Addicted to ArboristSite
Dan ,The old guy i get my husky's from will give me a year warranty and i am not sure why they will not give a year because what i have found is if it doesnot break in the first 2 or 3 days , it runs the rest of it's life well
on the Dolmar , i think it is every bit as good as anything out there and most likely better than that, the more i run it the better i like it
on the Dolmar , i think it is every bit as good as anything out there and most likely better than that, the more i run it the better i like it
ricksvar
ArboristSite Operative
In my opinion a MS440(oiler maxed) and 372xp(oiler not maxed)are going to cut pretty close with 20" bars and matching chain.The only difference really to be gained with either saw would be the skill of the operator.With a longer bar and increased oil adjustment on the 372,it's going to have a advantage over the 440.
Between a MS460(oiler maxed) and 372xp(oiler not maxed) both with 20" bars and matching chain the MS460 is going to prevail,even with a kid operating the saw.With longer bars on each saw and increased oil adjustment on the 372 in my opinion the 372 will come closer to matching the 460 in the cut.
What I would like to know is what the difference is with a 7900(oiler not maxed/both saw putting the saw volume of oil on the bar) and MS460(oiler maxed) both with 20" bars and matching chain in a cut.I tend to think only the skill of the operator will make any difference.Am I wrong?
Rick
Between a MS460(oiler maxed) and 372xp(oiler not maxed) both with 20" bars and matching chain the MS460 is going to prevail,even with a kid operating the saw.With longer bars on each saw and increased oil adjustment on the 372 in my opinion the 372 will come closer to matching the 460 in the cut.
What I would like to know is what the difference is with a 7900(oiler not maxed/both saw putting the saw volume of oil on the bar) and MS460(oiler maxed) both with 20" bars and matching chain in a cut.I tend to think only the skill of the operator will make any difference.Am I wrong?
Rick
ehp
Addicted to ArboristSite
Like i said if stihl would only put a muffler on there saws now they would be right there with husky, there horse power rating must be with the old 2 port muffler because the new ones like Larry said sound like a singer sewing machine and are not as strong as they appear to be until you do the muffler job but once you do they are strong
