Backbarring the undercut

[HuskStihl]

OK, I've received very different advice about this from people who all know their #### forwards and backwards.

If I am on the right side of a tree, and I make a gunning cut with the saw flipped over, is it ok to make my undercut from the same side with the top of the bar (completing the Humboldt)? This is a half-wrap vs full-wrap thread

 

[treeslayer2003]

husk, I have done it but it's tricky. you not in a hurry so I suggest no. the saw will act differently pushing chain than pulling. if ya not used to backbaring I don't think ya should try that yet.

 

[northmanlogging]

Depends on the tree, big ones I'll get away with using the bottom/normal side, little ones its easier to use the back side... also depends on your comfort level, and the length of bar, dirt can get in the way. Sometimes it seems easier to line up cuts with back side, but once you get the dog in and rotate deal down... its rock em sock em.

 

[bustedup]

Master the pulling chain before ya start facing with the pushing imo

 

[mdavlee]

I try not to back bar unless it's the only option. I'm lazy and like the saw to do the pulling instead of me having to push the saw into the undercut. Little tiny trees less than 10" then back barring isn't too bad.

 

[bustedup]

Jon let the saw do the work use the dogs and buy a full wrap bro.........you'll get to back barring in time but for the mo stick to the pulling chain (bucking excepted here btw)

 

[Cfaller]

Buying a 3/4 warp will be the best $100 you spend on your saw.:msp_biggrin: I'll back bar smaller trees, but like everyone else, big ones no way. If you will be backbarring a lot don't run an aggressive chain or it will feel like you went to the gym all day.:msp_angry:

 

[woodchuck357]

Cut a good sized tree, at least 2 foot DBH, leaving a chest high stump and practice notching all up and down it with the top of the bar. Plan your notches and you might come up with a nice start on a carving as well as learning to handle your saw!

 

[056kid]

Root flair often makes the diagonal cut in a Humboldt easier to do back bar. The only streniouse part is starting a kerf before the doggies can bite. After that just keep footing and take a lean. Things even out if your tips burried though, after your satisfied with your aim, just finish with the bottom of the bar. Big dogs make more leverage which is good, keeping the two top two spikes sharp is important. I hit the outside top with the ax recently, that caused big grip issues.

Get a wrap handle and you won't even need to worry. About back barring, you can under buck though haha.

 

[roberte]

Wrap handle, yes.

Backbar, next to or last option. Wait till you throw a chain in the middle of a big backbar, then get back to us.
I know there is a couple YouTube visa showing backbar, treeslingr being in a couple of em, but his experience level is off the charts.
Why fight it let the saw do the work.

 

[madhatte]

All of the above advice is rock-solid. I would like to add that if you are cleaning out the face of just a nibble or two, and you're looking down the bar through the face itself, back-barring is often useful because it pushes the chips away from you. However, that only counts once you already have the face mostly complete. Otherwise, it's most often more work to pull a face with the back of the bar.

 

[056kid]

Rhink

All of the above advice is rock-solid. I would like to add that if you are cleaning out the face of just a nibble or two, and you're looking down the bar through the face itself, back-barring is often useful because it pushes the chips away from you. However, that only counts once you already have the face mostly complete. Otherwise, it's most often more work to pull a face with the back of the bar.

It's difficult to do that with east haedwood. It's not impossible, but its q good way to throw a chain and wear stuff out faster. Stuff like hickory, ash, and locust along with others you just gave to duck behind your powerhead and hat or Line things up and cut by feel. Hickory chips on a hot day can be slightly unpleasent to the epidermis. Better than tan oak dust though!

 

[treeslayer2003]

ever notice when ya start a cut in hickory, ya eyes get pelted with bark?

 

[roberte]

ever notice when ya start a cut in hickory, ya eyes get pelted with bark?

Standard issue out here.

 

[bitzer]

Guess I'll have to be the turd in the punch bowl....

From a production standpoint in hardwood timber back barring is a necessity. Usually there is too much stump flair to have the powerhead down depending on which side of the tree you are on. If I'm cutting from the left side I put all of my face cuts in back bar (Humboldt or Saginaw) and then dog in for the back cut. I never have to flip the saw head over, which does mess with time and rhythm. Cutting from the right side its the opposite. Like the Kid said once you get past the ##### part of getting the diagonal started on a Humboldt its just dogging in and working it. Also if you throw a chain back barring it generally just flops off the bar because you are cutting wood away from you. The last thing it does is dig into the wood and then just lays there. When cutting towards you the thrown chain flies at you.

Its also generally faster to throw a Saginaw face in when making 8-12" stumps that have a lot of flair. Hard maple and red oak being two species that come to mind that can be a ##### to put a Humboldt into unless you really need it. Often you are cutting more wood with a Humboldt in those situations and its harder wood with screwy grain being that close to the roots.

In Jon's case where stump height is not a factor, you can still run that half wrap like a full wrap when putting the face cuts in from the left side. Just keep your hand on top of the handle bar and make your stump higher to give yourself the room.

Its tough to get used to, but you can easily keep an eye on the top when back barring the back cut as well. It just takes some practice. I do it all the time when swinging trees.

The only way to get away from back barring hardwood timber is either to bore it or circle the tree both eating up time and money.

Jon- to me its something worth while to practice. Just watch your tip for kick out and keep your hands on the saw at all times. A guy should know how to run his saw backwards and forwards. Situations will arise... Believe me.

 

[treeslayer2003]

yea, bitz is right on everything he said. I do all those things and more.... but husk ya not a production logger, you need not be in any hurry. you not making money on time here, so take your time and do what ya comfortable with. above all keep safe and don't try anything your not ready for.

 

[bitzer]

Jon- here ya go. Its not rocket science. Just know where your tip is. Back- barred both face cuts on this ash from last winter. It still pisses me off that I took my hand off the saw to flip the chip out. I always just knick it with the top of the bar and it kicks it out. Cell phone only takes 1 min videos. If I only it had about 5 more seconds...

[video=youtube;Q3lDcz9lLxU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3lDcz9lLxU[/video]

 

[hammerlogging]

yup backbar hardwood timber no-brainer do what you got to do be in control of the saw if you can't tak eit ease off and do what you're comfortable with, knowing that will limit your options. I'll sometimes bore in my undercut, rise to match the horizontal, then cut downward, usually just dog from the bottom up, either works, but your stumps will end up way too high on that other side if you don't backbar the undercut, at least some of the time. I'll backbar a backcut too, whatever. do what works.

 

[HuskStihl]

Y'all must not be very experienced with falling. Everybody knows the proper time for back barring is when there are poison ivy vines on the tree. I will back bar the whole thing to avoid flingin' that #### all over me. You are all correct about my situation. I fall in a year what most of you do in a day. My time is not free, but I can take 15 minutes to fall a one minute tree no problem. I just have this thing about doing stuff right, even if it doesn't really matter. I am better at back barring the undercut. Seems to just fit my eyes better. Of course this is coming from a guy who did not know you shouldn't face from under the lean until two days ago:msp_biggrin:

 

[dooby]

Guess I'll have to be the turd in the punch bowl....

From a production standpoint in hardwood timber back barring is a necessity. Usually there is too much stump flair to have the powerhead down depending on which side of the tree you are on. If I'm cutting from the left side I put all of my face cuts in back bar (Humboldt or Saginaw) and then dog in for the back cut. I never have to flip the saw head over, which does mess with time and rhythm. Cutting from the right side its the opposite. Like the Kid said once you get past the ##### part of getting the diagonal started on a Humboldt its just dogging in and working it. Also if you throw a chain back barring it generally just flops off the bar because you are cutting wood away from you. The last thing it does is dig into the wood and then just lays there. When cutting towards you the thrown chain flies at you.

Its also generally faster to throw a Saginaw face in when making 8-12" stumps that have a lot of flair. Hard maple and red oak being two species that come to mind that can be a ##### to put a Humboldt into unless you really need it. Often you are cutting more wood with a Humboldt in those situations and its harder wood with screwy grain being that close to the roots.

In Jon's case where stump height is not a factor, you can still run that half wrap like a full wrap when putting the face cuts in from the left side. Just keep your hand on top of the handle bar and make your stump higher to give yourself the room.

Its tough to get used to, but you can easily keep an eye on the top when back barring the back cut as well. It just takes some practice. I do it all the time when swinging trees.

The only way to get away from back barring hardwood timber is either to bore it or circle the tree both eating up time and money.

Jon- to me its something worth while to practice. Just watch your tip for kick out and keep your hands on the saw at all times. A guy should know how to run his saw backwards and forwards. Situations will arise... Believe me.

I agree w/ most all of this whole thread and mostly this one. Way to be descriptive, bitzer. It does have a lot to do w/ rhythm. I saw very similar to bitz' so I need not say more.opcorn: