building a house

[Curlycherry1]

If you go with 2x8 walls, I gotta ask what are you going to do for windows and doors. I've never seen frames for them bigger than 2x6. Custom ordering them could be outrageous.

Building custom extension jambs on site is an easy task that anyone with a cheapo table saw can do. Any trim carpenter can do it and it is simple. I made all the extension jambs in my house because they are made out of either cherry or maple and cherry is not an extension jamb option from the company my windows came from.

Photo of solid cherry extension jambs and window trim:

Photo of my SIPs roof panels being put in place:

One thing about SIPs is that you need to have ridge supports and so there are often beams that can be left exposed inside of the structure. Here is what the inside roof of my screeened in porch looks like and as you can see, it adds some features rather than plain old drywall. I added beadboard to the bottom of the SIPs panels. The beams are treated with Sikkens(tm) outdoor stain and it makes the beams look just like walnut beams.

 

[danrclem]

I don't know how much the foam insulation costs but if it is too expensive to use 100% you could fill all of the places that would be the most likely to leak air (around doors, windows and corners) with it and use the cellulose to fill in the big places. If you do this, use 6" wall and use good windows and doors you'll be well insulated for your area. Tyvek is a very good idea too.

I did all of the above except for foam in the cracks when I built my house in 1987 and it is does very well.

 

[1947wdx]

Just to stir the pot a bit... (You have to once in a while or things will burn... )

Have you looked at timber frame with straw bale infill?

 

[Mud23609]

Another vote for the icf forms.

I built my moms house out of them but did use a conventional framed roof with glass insulation. House doesn't get to warm in the summer, and stays warmer in the winter. Last year she used about 700 gallons of propane for her heating (forced air), cooking, and hot water. Not to bad when you consider she keeps the house at 74 in the winter. Thirty below temps are common in the winter and we usually get a couple of two week stretches every year that the high temp never gets above zero.

Her house is 4600 square feet including the fully finished basement which is kept at the same temp as the upstairs.

As a comparison my house is an older farm house but is only 1400 square feet, the one year that I did heat it solely with propane I used about 1200 gallons.

 

[Racerboy832]

Hey Guy, I have a old little house. Can anyone out there tell me what you paid or know of for spray foam? I need closed cell stuff for my place. I never seem anyone doing it in my area.

 

[Curlycherry1]

Hey Guy, I have a old little house. Can anyone out there tell me what you paid or know of for spray foam? I need closed cell stuff for my place. I never seem anyone doing it in my area.

The price of foam varies a lot and with the huge drop off in building the foamers are looking for work. Give them a call and get a price for foaming an old house. It is not cheap, that is for sure, but you can tell a foamed house the minute you walk into one (quieter, walls are rock solid, zero drafts, very uniform heat).

 

[dingeryote]

Oh yea, much better. But wait till you price it out...... Not cheap.

I looked into it when we built our house 3 years ago. It's running about 3 times the cost of traditional batting.

What became obvious was the total lack of contractor options around here.
Two outfits out of GR that billed extra for milage, one outfit out of holland that was much higher than the other two, and one outfit out of Kazoo that never answered thier phone.

I bounced the pricing off of an old Marine buddy who does the spray foam in another state, and he laughed.... it seems we are getting screwed here by the lack of competition in GR, Holland and Kazoo.

Figures.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[gruff4531]

Interested in the SIP's

My wife and I are looking a build a house in a couple of years and the SIP have peaked our interest. After doing a little searching and asking a couple of different contractors in my area it seems no one in my area has used or heard of anyone using them. So my basic question is, how much more expensive is it as compared to building 2x6 walls and a standard truss roof, with fiberglass and blown in insulation? Are we talking 10% or higher? Also has anyone who built with these panels had any trouble with banks because of the being declared unconventional construction (I have known a couple people with berm type homes that had this issue). It seems from the posts here and couple other post from other sites that people really don't have a lot of bad to say about the system, but at the same time information in areas where a contractor isn't installing them is very limited.

 

[Lagrue]

My wife and I are looking a build a house in a couple of years and the SIP have peaked our interest. After doing a little searching and asking a couple of different contractors in my area it seems no one in my area has used or heard of anyone using them. So my basic question is, how much more expensive is it as compared to building 2x6 walls and a standard truss roof, with fiberglass and blown in insulation? Are we talking 10% or higher? Also has anyone who built with these panels had any trouble with banks because of the being declared unconventional construction (I have known a couple people with berm type homes that had this issue). It seems from the posts here and couple other post from other sites that people really don't have a lot of bad to say about the system, but at the same time information in areas where a contractor isn't installing them is very limited.

I am in the same boat here, no one installs orhandles them around here. I was reading on one of the manufacturers websites. On cost, it stated as a rough comparison 20% higher. They can take your blueprints and give an exact estimate. I would consider it if there was an experienced contractor around. I will probably end up going 2x6 walls and closed sell spray foam on the exterior walls and cieling. I might put cellulose in the interior walls for noise reduction.

 

[laynes69]

We have a large victorian home. Built around the mid 1800's. Dad owned an insulating buisness in the late 70's and filled the wall cavities with urea formaldehyde foam. Average of 8" thick in most places. We still have drafts at the foundation, but our house stays warm, and costs less to heat than my grandmothers trailer. Sound isn't an issue, and the insulation doesn't settle. It was a 2 part mix, that went in like shaving cream. They can do it the same way, but its a different mix. If we built a home today, I would use sip panels and design the house for solar heating.

 

[gruff4531]

I am thinking the exact same thing

I am in the same boat here, no one installs orhandles them around here. I was reading on one of the manufacturers websites. On cost, it stated as a rough comparison 20% higher. They can take your blueprints and give an exact estimate. I would consider it if there was an experienced contractor around. I will probably end up going 2x6 walls and closed sell spray foam on the exterior walls and cieling. I might put cellulose in the interior walls for noise reduction.

Not only would it cost about 10 to 20% more, I was planning on doing a lot of the work myself which would even push the percentage higher. I wouldn't mind paying more if it was going a be a lot better, but in my experience in this area a 2x6 wall with house wrap then 1 - 1.5" foam and fiberglass bats over that seal a home up pretty nice.

 

[Curlycherry1]

I heard SIPs run about 20% higher but I never priced stick construction. I did my own design work and my own blueprints and they took those prints and converted them to an estimate that was right out to the penny. I hired the installation crew and paid them by the hour. So for me as a homeowner/GC it worked out perfect.

The place that made my panels was Extreme Panels of Southern MN. They ship all over the US. Installers were from ~25 miles away.

http://www.extremepanel.com/

 

[coog]

I've used both open and closed cell foam in my home renovation business.I like both, but the closed cell is superior when faced with insulating 2x4 balloon walls.In fact I believe 2x4 walls are allowed in new construction when using closed cell foam.I always tell people that over 90% of your 'R' value is achieved in the first inch of insulation, no matter what type you use.It's the stopping of the air movement that makes foam superior to all other types.

 

[Racerboy832]

What does it average to be in terms of cost for the closed cell? I have a small home with t/g pine inside and crappy siding. I may rip the siding off and spray foam from the outside in.

 

[boda65]

I don't know what it is called, but a friend of mine built his home out of a type of foam blocks that look sort of like giant legos. After all the walls are built, concrete is poured in the center to fill them up. Solid wall of concrete from below the frost line up to the rafters. Window and door sills are about a foot deep!

He doesn't even have an air conditioner and his house is never hot. Of course, you get a lot more heat there than we do and I know his winter propane bills aren't too bad, either

 

[cjcocn]

Wanting to build a new house, been living in an old drafty house. Wondering what your opinions are on the exterior wall thickness over the standard. I am wanting to built the most effecient house possible.

Use 2x4 walls.

That's walls, not wall.

Build your exterior wall and insulate it with spray foam. You will get an R-Value of 6 per inch, but should go at least 2" to get the barriers required (moisture, air, thermal).

Build your interior wall and use that to run your wiring, install sheathing (drywall, etc).

For your crawl space (assuming that you will have one), spray the pony walls and also spray a 2" spray foam air barrier on the ground in the crawl space. If you spray the floor joists and the pony walls, then you are effectively creating a cold spot as cold air rising from the ground gets trapped in your crawl space. Spraying an air barrier on the ground prevents this.

For your ceiling, spray 2" of spray foam and then install conventional fiberglass batt insulation in the proper manner (cross-hatched) to achieve your desired/required R-value. This will give you your barriers and will also help to reduce the costs (yes, spray foam is expensive).

For anyone considering the application of spray foam on the exterior of a structure, keep in mind that you must coat the spray foam as UV rays will eat it up at the rate of approximately 1/2" per year. You can paint it, but a polyurea coating is tougher and will last longer (but does represent an additional cost).

If you want to coat the exterior of a building and then apply a conventional sheathing (siding, etc), there is a brace that is used to obtain the required flat surface. I cannot recall the name of this brace (we've never had to use them yet), but I do recall that it is shaped like a "Z" and currently represents the most effective method of reducing thermal breaks.

HTH

 

[ericjeeper]

If you go with 2x8 walls, I gotta ask what are you going to do for windows and doors. I've never seen frames for them bigger than 2x6. Custom ordering them could be outrageous.

The windows will be a piece of cake. You could use any vinyl window and build a basic box interior trim frame inside. Say the window is 3.25 inches thick You will have an 8.5 inch wall so you will need a 5.25 inch thick box. I would suggest buying replacement windows.No new construction window is going to offer the types of glass packages available in a replacement window.
Vinyl brick molds and J channels are all common pieces that are offered by most replacement window companies.And they are made to attach using an accessory grove that is extruded in the frame.

 

[davec]

My wife and I are looking a build a house in a couple of years and the SIP have peaked our interest. After doing a little searching and asking a couple of different contractors in my area it seems no one in my area has used or heard of anyone using them. So my basic question is, how much more expensive is it as compared to building 2x6 walls and a standard truss roof, with fiberglass and blown in insulation? Are we talking 10% or higher? Also has anyone who built with these panels had any trouble with banks because of the being declared unconventional construction (I have known a couple people with berm type homes that had this issue). It seems from the posts here and couple other post from other sites that people really don't have a lot of bad to say about the system, but at the same time information in areas where a contractor isn't installing them is very limited.

It can often be hard to find SIPs contractors from the consumer end. Most conventional builders won't give SIPs the time of day. The easy way to do this is to go to a large regional home and remodeling show as there will be builders there that do it all the time. Or start with the panel manufacturers. www.sips.org gets you to the trade association where you can learn more and start digging for manufacturers and installers. The panel manufacturers have lists of installers they have worked with in the region and will know who the good ones are. Once you get past the installer issue, SIPs aren't really all that unconventional (nothing like earth berm...). The inspector in your area will have to be not super stubborn, as technically you can't see the wiring run in the panels for rough-in inspections, for example. Depends on the person, but usually you can work around those issues.


But to the larger question: The keys to building a good house are more than just good insulation, like most people have said. You also need good air sealing. Good water control on the exterior and good foundation drainage. ...Among other things...

Fiberglass batts are pretty poor insulation as they are very Dependant on the quality of the installation, and it is easy to miss things. Dense pack cellulose or spray foam are far better, but they cost more. Another good option is running an inch or more of foam board either as the exterior sheathing or over the sheathing. That can give you an instant drainage plane behind your siding (if you tape all the seams) as well as a great air barrier and thermal break. If you use conventional framing, every 16" or even 24" there is a stud that has minimal insulation value. If you foam board over the whole surface, you eliminate those thermal breaks and improve the whole-wall performance substantially. And it can be a much cheaper way to go to get a high performance wall system. For ceilings or roof decks, it is hard to beat a thin layer of spray foam (closed cell) to start with as it does a great job of air sealing all the tiny leaks in one fell swoop. Then you can blow in over the top of that for a ceiling to get the needed R-value at a much more reasonable cost.

This is a topic that could go on for weeks...

...Properly insulating basements and crawlspaces, sub-slab insulation, radon control, proper rim joist sealing and insulation, air sealing attics and around doors/windows/penetrations...the list is quite long...

-Dave

 

[cjcocn]

The windows will be a piece of cake. You could use any vinyl window and build a basic box interior trim frame inside. Say the window is 3.25 inches thick You will have an 8.5 inch wall so you will need a 5.25 inch thick box. I would suggest buying replacement windows.No new construction window is going to offer the types of glass packages available in a replacement window.
Vinyl brick molds and J channels are all common pieces that are offered by most replacement window companies.And they are made to attach using an accessory grove that is extruded in the frame.

What he said.

It's so easy that even I have done it.

 

[Lagrue]

My house will have a basement, it will be buit on top of a large wooded ridge, drainage shouldnt be an issue.