Don't Understand the Shouldn't use a Top Handle Saw on the Ground Thing

[RES]

I don't understand the shouldn't use a top handle saw on the ground thing. I use my top handle saws for trimming downed trees, cutting up small branches and even bucking small diameter logs. I feel perfectly safe, secure and comfortable doing so. For me it is awkward and inconvenient to use a rear handle saw for these purposes. You mean to tell me that it is OK for a climber who is hanging on for dear life to use a top handle saw up in the tree and not to use one on the ground.

 

[mdavlee]

I never have understood the thinking it's safer in a tree than on the ground. I would like to try one out for trimming and small stuff.

 

[redunshee]

I don't understand the shouldn't use a top handle saw on the ground thing. I use my top handle saws for trimming downed trees, cutting up small branches and even bucking small diameter logs. I feel perfectly safe, secure and comfortable doing so. For me it is awkward and inconvenient to use a rear handle saw for these purposes. You mean to tell me that it is OK for a climber who is hanging on for dear life to use a top handle saw up in the tree and not to use one on the ground.

I believe the common thinking is that a top handle saw is more comfortable when working at shoulder height, rather than having to bend down to remove branches from a downed tree. I don't believe safety is that big an issue so much as comfort.
Bob

 

[Wicked500R]

I use my 200T quite often to trim stuff on the ground. I grab the branch with one hand, cut with other and then a pass off to my parter all in one swoop who will load it onto the truck.. things go really quick, is neat and efficient. Once I get the light stuff off and im down to the limb.. I will exchange for the 361 and buck whatever into 15 inchish pieces for firewood.

 

[shelbythedog]

My 015L is on permanent pallet cuttin duty. I do that with both feet firmly on the ground. Add me to the group of mis-users. Heck, I remember watching a video of MCW fallin a few small trees with a 200T.

 

[lone wolf]

I don't understand the shouldn't use a top handle saw on the ground thing. I use my top handle saws for trimming downed trees, cutting up small branches and even bucking small diameter logs. I feel perfectly safe, secure and comfortable doing so. For me it is awkward and inconvenient to use a rear handle saw for these purposes. You mean to tell me that it is OK for a climber who is hanging on for dear life to use a top handle saw up in the tree and not to use one on the ground.

It is a liability issue and the story is started by Stihl.Me thinks the reason is because the Saw begs to be one handed there by kickback comes into the equation.But what do I know?

 

[Philbert]

I don't understand the shouldn't use a top handle saw on the ground thing.

I never have understood the thinking it's safer in a tree than on the ground.

It's not safer in the tree.

With two hands on the saw (any saw) you have more control. When the second hand is farther behind, you gain additional leverage to control the saw, as well as to resist kickback. When you only have one hand on the saw, it is essentially a pivot point from an inertia standpoint and you have very little control to resist the kickback of even a small saw.

It is not safer in the tree, but it is a compromise made in recognition of the tighter working conditions that climbers have, and the need to sometimes hold on to something else while cutting.

Depending upon the situation, there may be less chance of the saw tip hitting something unexpected when cutting a branch in free air, than a limb of the same diameter lying in a pile on the ground with other stuff. In my opinion, it is never a good idea to hold onto a branch you are cutting with a chain saw, or to allow someone else to hold it while you cut.

Philbert

 

[indiansprings]

In expierenced hands I think it is fine to use a top handle saw on the ground. I'll use either our old 009 or the son's 200T some of the time on the ground. Especially clearing out vines. I do see where a newbie could get his or her self in trouble one handing with one. When I do use one on the ground I really have a heightened sense of caution. We don't use them nearly as much as a professional tree service employee and are not as comfortable using them as the rear handle saws. All saws must be used with respect or they will get you, top handle, rear handle, electric, battery whatever the style if it has a moving chain.

 

[lmbrman]

I have a top handle echo I bought just to play with. I have used it very little in three years and I do not feel safe using it. I had it in the woods recently whille doing pine thinning thinking it might work for pruning ahead of felling. Did not like how it felt. Actually threw my back out reaching with it on account of the short bar. My wife has helped in the woods for years and has occasionally run saw. She tried to do some limbing with the top handle and shut it off after one tree. She said it was the scariest saw she ever ran.
Just my two cents. (and hers)

 

[dave k]

In Europe it is an health and saftey rule that a top handled saw will not be used on the ground and could result in a legal action. The reason is that doing what some of you are doing i.e. cutting and holding can end up with the saw "skating" along the branch and cutting the hand holding the branch, I have seen it happen twice and seen the results on three other guys. Now as far as Im concerned do what you want and with what you want !

 

[turnkey4099]

I suspect it is a safety issue in that a top handle is inherently unsafe unless two-handed...but who does that?

They acknowledge that one is almost forced to use one in a tree but doesn't need to on the ground.

Thus "don't use on the ground" cuts the danger aspect way down by probably over 50%

Harry K

 

[logbutcher]

Silly stuff, not using a top handle on the ground.

This "old" 009L has been used for years safely both in a tree and on the ground. The top handles (200T, 009, ...) are excellent for heavy blowdowns, backpack carrying for trail work and island jobs off the coast here, and just plain general light branch cuts--drop a big one, clear crown branches with the little saws.

Any tool used the wrong way will bite you in the a$$.

 

[Miles86]

My first saw was a brand new (top handle) Poulan 2300 CVA 38 cc. At the time I thought that's a normal saw, and I felled many smaller trees with it, It was powerful for it's small size! It was a great saw, but I sold it when the pulse pressure chain oiler stopped working due to the check valve leaking, at that time I didn't know how to fix it. I wish I kept that one. I now use a Tanaka 3401s for working in thick underbrush etc... That's a great one also, I won't sell the Tanaka!
Tanaka TCS-3401S Top Handle Chain Saw

 

[lone wolf]

Let me clear it up for you NEWBS.It depends on what your definition of on the ground is.If you are trimming a blowdown with it and you have to cut at face level the top handle is surely safer than using a standard handle saw.But if you are just cutting small wood and one handing it well there is where you are going to get cut when it kicks back and your left arm is in range!My advice keep two hands on it as much as you can one hand it when the situation calls for it.

 

[tallguys]

The key thing to remember is that any chainsaw needs to be treated with respect. They are not children's toys. Improperly handled, like some have mentioned, and they can seriously hurt you. Having said that now, I find the top handles great for the light limbing, trimming and pruning work. Truth be told, it actually wasn't until I started reading more on AS that I found out that they are so dangerous and undesirable to use on the ground. :msp_tongue: Lighter, handier and more maneuverable is not a bad thing.

As long as one is cautious and treats it with the respect it deserves, I don't think its inherently any more dangerous than any other saw.

 

[hoosier daddy]

Have used a top handle for many years on the ground removing smaller limbs before bucking...I think they are the shiznit for this application...My son helps me most times and while it's the smallest saw it's also the saw we have the safety conversation about the most. From my opinion, because it's small, light weight we sometimes forget it's spinning a meat and bone cutting chain too. Kind of like the little jack russell that is all noise until he removes your tendons at the ankle. As far as kickback is concerned it's the same exact principals with the big saws...

Bottom line is your using a tool that will gladly remove limbs-Tree or human so respect it, learn to use it safely and prepare for the worst...

HD

 

[howellhandmade]

The key thing to remember is that any chainsaw needs to be treated with respect. They are not children's toys. Improperly handled, like some have mentioned, and they can seriously hurt you. Having said that now, I find the top handles great for the light limbing, trimming and pruning work. Truth be told, it actually wasn't until I started reading more on AS that I found out that they are so dangerous and undesirable to use on the ground. :msp_tongue: Lighter, handier and more maneuverable is not a bad thing.

As long as one is cautious and treats it with the respect it deserves, I don't think its inherently any more dangerous than any other saw.

Well, that's just the thing, isn't it? Any tool requires attention to avoid injury, and anything that ends in "saw" requires more attention than one that ends, in, say, "wrench." If you're willing and able to pay sufficient attention to what you're doing, and if you're experienced and sober enough to assess the risk in the first place, there's no reason not to use whatever tool you want.

The fact that many people underestimate danger and overestimate their ability is what leads to caveats like "no top handles on the ground." If I were a saw manufacturer that's certainly what I'd say. A guy up in a tree has already overcome some natural selection forces by being alive up in a tree, and his saw is only one of many dangers that wait for the chance to remove him from the gene pool. The guy on the ground with a top handle could be anybody, and if he uses the saw stupidly and hurts himself suddenly it's *my* problem.

FWIW, I don't climb and feel no need for a top handle. A 40cc rear handle is light and handy enough. In a tree, the branches are where they are, and a climber has to adjust. The ground is pretty much everywhere. If I can't get a clear shot at something with two hands on the saw on the ground, it's time to MOVE MY FEET, not get a saw I can play twister with. But that's just me, I'm a big fan of natural selection.

 

[flushcut]

Top handles for in the tree only I don't want those saws even close to dirt or abrasives. Being a tree guy a top handle gets the most use out of all the saws I own on a job. I think it is all personal preference.

 

[tallguys]

The fact that many people underestimate danger and overestimate their ability is what leads to caveats like "no top handles on the ground." If I were a saw manufacturer that's certainly what I'd say.

If I were a manufacturer I'd stamp it right on the top cover "not for stupid people" but then I'd most likely be losing more than half of my potential customers, what with ever homeowner and fly by night business operator.

Kind of reminds me when they started stamping gun barrels with warnings of not pointing at anything you didn't intend to shoot at.

 

[howellhandmade]

If I were a manufacturer I'd stamp it right on the top cover "not for stupid people" but then I'd most likely be losing more than half of my potential customers, what with ever homeowner and fly by night business operator.

Kind of reminds me when they started stamping gun barrels with warnings of not pointing at anything you didn't intend to shoot at.

How about the screens that people put in their windshields to keep the sun out of the car? Says, "Do not operate vehicle with shield in place." And you wouldn't lose ANY customers, stupid people don't know they're stupid.