Falling pics 11/25/09

[bnmc98]

View attachment 518920 The one that nearly killed me, will post a video later.
Got sent to fall some trees that where above my skill level, was a good learning curve however

Um... not to be critical, but that tree did not almost kill you. You almost got a bruise from the flying branch, but not near death. I'm glad it wasn't. But I am not belittling that it probably felt that way to you.
You will know "near death" when you experience it.

Heed what the others are saying and clear a path if you must so you do not really experience "near death" or..... just... "death"

 

[KiwiBro]

Thanks for posting scheffa. A good learning experience I'm sure.

 

[scheffa]

Should have said it was the one that could have killed me. That was my first time falling big burnt out timber, had 8 wedges in the jord some stacked to try and make it go over.
I learnt a lot on the this job, I'm a climber not a Faller and I don't pretend to be, I am however quickly learning some of the tricks of the trade. Unfortunately here in Aus there aren't many hand falling operations around anymore for one to learn on. Where i work in the high country we often come across these monster trees 7'+ Dbh. Cutting big timber I something I love about living up here.

Thanks for all of the advise, I will be certain to take it onboard

 

[Bwildered]

Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
Crankski

 

[rwoods]

Scheffa, there are several on here that are quite experienced at cutting NA burn outs. Hopefully they will chime in with some pointers.

Ron

 

[bitzer]

Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
Crankski

Never ever?

 

[madhatte]

Never ever?

Beat me to it!

 

[bnmc98]

Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
Crankski

No, that's why you look up.

 

[bitzer]

Beat me to it!

He must live in a magical land where snags can always be cut with the lean. Very telling.

 

[scheffa]

If you can't drive wedges how do you fall something that is fairly even weighted the whole way up, needs to fall in certain direction and is missing a third of the barrel?
There was no option to install a pull line and we don't have tree jacks

 

[KiwiBro]

I think what Bwildered was hinting at is he would swing 'em. 179 degrees. In the shade.

/sarcasm

But dead trees can drop branch bombs at the merest hint of an invitation. A few standard issue bottle jacks are a small price to pay for having another tool in your box-o-tricks.

 

[Bwildered]

If you can't drive wedges how do you fall something that is fairly even weighted the whole way up, needs to fall in certain direction and is missing a third of the barrel?
There was no option to install a pull line and we don't have tree jacks

If you can't fall it with the lean, can't get solid wood to jack it over, can't get a pull line onto it, can't get a excavator to dig & push it over, can't get it down with explosives, then as a learner you definitely shouldn't be anywhere near something like that anyhow, check out the ACE tree services videos if they are still on YouTube, not a wedge insight, it's an easy way, just really dangerous.
Fafinski

 

[Gologit]

Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
Crankski

I've cut a lot of snags, way more than I ever wanted to. Most fallers hate snags and I don't blame them.
Saying that you should "never ever" drive wedges into them is bad advice.
There are some that can be wedged and some that can't. An experienced faller will know the difference.
There's also a lot of difference between cutting burn salvage snags and cutting snags that died a natural death. Natural snags are usually far more dangerous than burn snags
The amount of good wood that hasn't been burned will give you your first clue. Your face cut will tell this right away. These are ususally okay to wedge.
If it's burned quite a ways into the wood you might not want to use wedges.
To say that should never use wedges on snags is poor advice and shows your lack of experience, not to mention common sense.
A couple of guys here mentioned looking up when you're cutting snags. That's excellent advice. The tree you're falling can drop limbs on you and it can also hit other trees on the way down. If it hits other trees their branches can break off and sling-shot back at you.
Wedge burned snags if you need to, unless the wood is so burned or rotten that the wedge won't do you any good.
If it's a totally rotten snag just drop it any way it wants to go. Sometimes crossing the lead has to be done. If the guys on the skidders grumble about it just ignore them.

 

[Bwildered]

I've cut a lot of snags, way more than I ever wanted to. Most fallers hate snags and I don't blame them.
Saying that you should "never ever" drive wedges into them is bad advice.
There are some that can be wedged and some that can't. An experienced faller will know the difference.
There's also a lot of difference between cutting burn salvage snags and cutting snags that died a natural death. Natural snags are usually far more dangerous than burn snags
The amount of good wood that hasn't been burned will give you your first clue. Your face cut will tell this right away. These are ususally okay to wedge.
If it's burned quite a ways into the wood you might not want to use wedges.
To say that should never use wedges on snags is poor advice and shows your lack of experience, not to mention common sense.
A couple of guys here mentioned looking up when you're cutting snags. That's excellent advice. The tree you're falling can drop limbs on you and it can also hit other trees on the way down. If it hits other trees their branches can break off and sling-shot back at you.
Wedge burned snags if you need to, unless the wood is so burned or rotten that the wedge won't do you any good.
If it's a totally rotten snag just drop it any way it wants to go. Sometimes crossing the lead has to be done. If the guys on the skidders grumble about it just ignore them.

You're talking out of your arse, have no idea about the nature of our dead eucalyptus timber, if you don't want to die or get injured then one doesn't disturb old dead standing trees in any way by jolting or jarring them, the ground around old trees like that is littered with fallen limbs which have come down all by themselves, it only takes a limb 2" X 3' coming down from 150' to break your shoulder, arm, neck or stove the top of your head in with a hard hat on.
I test bumped a small ( 30" dbh) dead tree to see how solid it was with the blade of the dozer one day, the top came out of it & landed on the the canopy of the machine, it looked solid but was termite ridden & just a paper thin shell up high.
Transki

 

[Gologit]

You're talking out of your arse, have no idea about the nature of our dead eucalyptus timber, if you don't want to die or get injured then one doesn't disturb old dead standing trees in any way by jolting or jarring them, the ground around old trees like that is littered with fallen limbs which have come down all by themselves, it only takes a limb 2" X 3' coming down from 150' to break your shoulder, arm, neck or stove the top of your head in with a hard hat on.
I test bumped a small ( 30" dbh) dead tree to see how solid it was with the blade of the dozer one day, the top came out of it & landed on the the canopy of the machine, it looked solid but was termite ridden & just a paper thin shell up high.
Transki

You're right about one thing, I've never cut any wood in Australia. That's the only thing you're right about.
I've cut oak, madrone, and eucalyptus quite a bit, both green and dead. Dry euc is probably the hardest would I've ever seen.
If a faller refused to cut every tree he thought presented a hazard he wouldn't have a job very long and his reputation for being overly cautious would precede him.
I understand that you don't have much experience and I don't hold that against you. Everybody started from zero but most of them learned as they went along and the good ones are still learning every day.
You, on the other hand, seem unable or maybe unwilling to accept any methods and beliefs that are different from your own.
With your attitude you'd last maybe half a day working in the woods until your boss found out what a complete idiot you were and they'd be sending you to town before you hurt yourself or, most importantly, somebody else. If you were on a crew that I was running you might not make it until lunch.
Now, that being said, I wish you luck. I mean that. I really do.

 

[northmanlogging]

If you can't drive wedges how do you fall something that is fairly even weighted the whole way up, needs to fall in certain direction and is missing a third of the barrel?
There was no option to install a pull line and we don't have tree jacks

Jacks is cheap, 25ton bottle jack from the local hardware warehouse store is all I use, got 2 of em, though I think one is frose up from hanging out in the backup crummy for over a year. Don't bother with anything under 20ton (metric or yank) they won't hold up and won't do much when you do need em. I've bent the handles on my 25t jacks just on 36" fir, not even leaning real hard just limb heavy. Doing pull ups and it don't move is a bad sign.

put a plate of steel on the top 3/8-1/2" thick (10mm-13mm? ****ing metric shite) to spread the pressure out some, mine have about 3x5" 3/8 plate on em with a handy chunk of gas pipe welded on as a keeper, just happened to fit snugly over the ram so poof keeper. They are bent a bit and could be wider as they sink into the wood at times but they work.

Jacking snags is still a sketchy maneuver, its just safer then beating wedges in, go slow and be careful. Pump the jack a couple times and palm the wedge in a bit. Always use a wedge as back up when jacking. Jacks fail, anything with moving parts is going to break eventually, best not to rely on it.

Normally for jacking trees, I'll jack a little and then give the wedge a good smack, trading off the weight from one to the other as the tree lifts, makes a little less work. If you're using two bottle jacks you can pump one and then the other, for pretty much the same effect, but still keep a wedge or two in there. The cool thing is you will feel the weight come off the jack as the tree stands up and gets ready to go, gets to a balance point and will just sit there until the wind picks up or momentum takes over

CLEAR AT LEAST TWO ESCAPE PATHS, on every ****ing tree, this is step one does not matter if its a snag or a perfect cone of delight, **** happens and you need to be ready for it. Its doubly more important on a snag because its going to blow up either when it starts to move or when it hits the ground or somewhere in between.

Also, the point of a face cut is A to direct a tree, and B to undermine the support of one side, therefor making standing weight into hanging weight, if its supposedly perfectly straight up and evenly balanced, putting a deep face in one side will change that equation fairly fast, by then palming a wedge into the back cut side it will prevent the trees from sitting back due to wind etc then the only way it can go is towards the face.

Folks have been know to say **** like "you didn't need a wedge in that" yeah well if I didn't wedge it then what? it has a chance to sit back... so take the time at least palm a wedge in and go.

 

[KiwiBro]

Hmmm. Here's a no-shock wedge idea. No endorsement, just an interesting approach. Lighter but without the lift of a bottle jack. Would it grip in dense wood?

 

[madhatte]

You're talking out of your arse, have no idea

You, uh, don't know who you 're talking to, do you? That guy has been cutting since dirt was a new invention, and has forgotten more than any of the rest of us mere mortals will ever learn. You'd do well to listen to his advice. It came at the cost of many years of hard time, and many associates lost too soon. Kids today, I tell you.

 

[northmanlogging]

resisting urge to see ignored content...


**** it I'm going to bed

 

[scheffa]

Appreciate all the feedback both positive and negative.
The tree wasn't dead, a burnt out hazard yes but definitely not dead.
The tree fell the intended direction, due to the large hollowed out section there wasn't enough room to skarf/notch it like normal and place a back cut, this is where my problem was with getting the tree to tip over.

While I realise what I did is probably dangerous, it was our only option at the time, given how far we were from anywhere and the equipment we had on hand.
If none of us took risks in life we wouldn't have evolved the way that we have, it was a calculated risk that I was comfortable with