Felling a leaning tree

[NetreeLady]

I wasn't offended, lego. No worries there. I was being sarcastic, but I really did have to get back to the kitchen.

A "Z-rig" is a pretty basic rigging term for a 3:1 mechanical advantage system- standard tree person vocabulary; it uses a rope and two pulleys.

Notching hangers on the side is pretty typical; depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You can either try to pull the tree over from the top, in which case notching sideways means you won't have to try to pull the tree up and over center (the more it's leaning, the more weight is against you)... or snap-cut it at the bottom and break it loose and pull it butt-first from under the other tree.

The wedge comment wasn't meant to be funny; it's pretty basic gear to avoid getting pinched.

 

[lego1970]

NETree, Cool. Thanks for the explaination of the z-rig.

 

[NetreeLady]

Here's a good example:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lvmikey/2440354055/

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Here's a good example:

NICE RIG! - Ben's foot is a valuable addition, too! :hmm3grin2orange: Have some rep

 

[Mike PA]

First, I'm not a pro, so take what I say with that in perspective. I have, however, cut several trees like this and I don't think this has to be that difficult that a pro needs to do it. You have already demonstrated that your most important tool works in that you recognize the danger inherent to this work. Take some time and decide where the forces are and what the result at the base will be. Most of the time I do these, I do it like Netreelady said. Snap cut and pull. Keeps you away from the danger zone. If you do ti with a truck, you can usually get enough momentum going to yank the tree out completely and safely - you always have control of the tree butt.

Someone mentioned fence posting (cutting little pieces off at a time and letting it drop). That usually does work, but can be extremely dangerous, as the butt will be dropping toward your legs. I think you need a larger saw for this if you have a large diameter tree, as it helps to cut through it quickly. Also, if the tree doesn't fall out first, you will end up with a nearly vertical tree that may swing and fall toward you at some point, so use that method with extreme caution (I've done it this way and ending up with the crown of the tree next to the stump).

Last word of caution: Beware of the rootball, as it may suddenly settle, roll, or move when the load is removed.

 

[pdqdl]

That Z-rig is assembled incorrectly. The prussic loops have no business at all being attached where they are in the photo.

Those are there to attach the system in the middle of a rope; the "rescuescender" on the rope is redundant.

A better explanation of the job is found at Sherrills: http://www.sherrilltree.com/Professional-Gear/Mechanical-Advantage-Kits_2/Tree-Pulling-Kit-1492

The video tells the whole story like a tutorial!

 

[lego1970]

I've used pulleys before, worked around transmission, etc, etc and I think I understand the mechanical advantage and how torque is multiplied but I'll be honest I would have to see a video of that rig lifting or dragging a 7 to 10 ton tree thats tangled up in another tree with the butt digging into the ground useing just a pick up truck before I would believe it. I don't know how big the OP's tree is, but all of the laid over trees I've done (for some reason Hackberry fall over all the time) I just can't see that rigging lifting or dragging out a tree. If I'm wrong that's great because that means I've learned something and that will make my life easier next time I have to take down a tree that's laying in another one.

 

[gwiley]

I am not a climber and watch them with awe...so I rely on equipment with pulling HP.

I got my chains mostly from lowes, about $40 for a 20' grade 70 chain rated at 4700lbs - it is sold as tow chain and has binder hooks. I love this stuff b/c it is easy to join, 20' increments work nicely. It is strong enough that I worry about my equipment more than the chain and I can buy it in chunks small enough to fit my wallet when I have a few extra Jacksons in my pocket.

I have 1 20' length of logging chain with a slip hook on one end that acts as a choker.

I like chain b/c it tolerates negligence much better than rope and isn't harmed by being dragged through mud or other abrasive materials. I shudder at the idea of internal rope fibers being slowly severed by embedded sand.

 

[Turkeyslayer]

Also be aware that when cutting ash or any other straight grained tree, there is a real posibility of the tree splitting. You have to be careful of your judgement of where the pressures are on the stalk (tension and compression). I personally have not tried a notch on the side, and on straight grained species I would be leary due to the fact if something goes wrong it may split (barber chair) or jump off the stump in the direction you are standing. I too have cut many hung up trees doing selective cuts in dense woodlots, and harvesting cull trees for firewood. I like the fact if you notch the top and backcut from the bottom you can be standing off to the side, and if something happens like a barber chair, it will split towards the ground.

Once you have the tree cut if it doesnt break free (the top), try wrapping your chain 1 1/2 times around the butt of the log then pulling with your come along at about a 45 degree angle back from the stump. When wrapping the chain try to figure out which way the tree needs to roll to break free, and have the chain come out over the top of the butt in that direction.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[pdqdl]

I posted this earlier, along with my additional notes, but it seems to have disappeared. I'm not typing all that again.

Try this:

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

That Z-rig is assembled incorrectly. The prussic loops have no business at all being attached where they are in the photo.

Those are there to attach the system in the middle of a rope; the "rescuescender" on the rope is redundant.

A better explanation of the job is found at Sherrills: http://www.sherrilltree.com/Professional-Gear/Mechanical-Advantage-Kits_2/Tree-Pulling-Kit-1492

The video tells the whole story like a tutorial!

IMO "incorrectly" might be a little strong. It's different - I'll give you that. But, there are some redeeming qualities in NetreeLady's Z-rig.

One of the Prusiks is exactly where the video shows it should be. However, I simply don't know if or how two 'tandem' Prusiks work together. I do agree there is a redundancy problem but it's with the Prusiks.

It's true the video shows the other Prusik grabbing the mid-line where the photo shows the Rescucender. IMO a Rescucender is a little easier to manage than a Prusik although quite a bit more expensive. Also, the Rescucender has a rigging advantage over a Prusik in that it can be permanently attached to its pulley - no un-tieing and re-tieing for use on another line.

IMO this simple transfer to another line is the real benefit of NetreeLady's Z-rig approach. Notice the Prusik is on it's own biner. So, when setting a hold line and a pull line, once the hold line has been tensioned and the Prusik set, the entire Z-rig can moved to the pull line using the other Prusik.

So I submit, though it's different, there are some pretty good ideas in NetreeLady's Z-rig - some I'll definately use. Just like everything else we do - it's probably 'a work in progress'.

 

[Turkeyslayer]

Dont get me wrong, but I am thinking for the average Joe homeowner/firewood cutter all this rigging is to complicated. I am assuming that he would like to get the tree down in the simplest and safest manner.
Pdqdl's rig is something that the average Joe can do/understand which is the point of the "homeowner" help forum. Again I am not trying to offend with this statement, its just the way I see it.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Dont get me wrong, but I am thinking for the average Joe homeowner/firewood cutter all this rigging is to complicated. I am assuming that he would like to get the tree down in the simplest and safest manner.
Pdqdl's rig is something that the average Joe can do/understand which is the point of the "homeowner" help forum. Again I am not trying to offend with this statement, its just the way I see it.

YEAH, of course you're right!!! :blush: I suspect that any talk of any "Z-rig" is way TOO MUCH INFORMATION for anyone on the Homeowner Helper Forum that simply wants the problem to go away.

Perhaps a simple come-along is sufficient. It's cheap, easy, simple to understand and use.

We do tend to over think things - don't we? :monkey:

Thanks, Turkeyslayer for bringing it back to the OP - hope we haven't chased him away.

 

[pdqdl]

SingleJack: as usual, you're right. Two prussics are pointless where they are clipped, and I assumed that whoever took the picture threw them on wherever they could, not knowing how to use the rig. I can see how it would be useful where it is located.

The pulley setup in Sherrills is much better for mechanical advantage, but I guess it doesn't technically qualify as a Z-rig, either.

Regarding my picture of how to remove the leaning tree: I think that is a pretty technical job to make the cuts correctly without getting whupped by a falling tree and then do it so that the available pulling device can extract the tree. It's how I would do it with a pickup, chainsaw, and some rope.

 

[Timberjackboy]

Well

If it was me id hook a choker onto it and try to winch it down and if that didn;t work id put the corner of the blade on it and knock it down

 

[AT sawyer]

Dropping a leaner

I'm still waiting for those pictures, but that said, I run into these all the time on the trail. Man, there are so many variables. Is the rootball tight or free? Are there broken limbs hanging in it's crown (widowmakers)? Is the leaner sound? etc...... If the leaner is a recently fallen tree, you may not have a top bind. Rootballs on fresh leaners want to return to vertical when cut, so the stump may RISE when you start your top cut -- watch for it. You are also dealing with END BIND here. The tree may want to close (crush) your kerf from the top down. If you don't own any wedges, now's the time to buy them. Watch your kerf when you start cutting, as it will tell you where the bind is. Rule of thumb is to cut compression first, tension second. If top bind, offset your bottom cut slightly ahead of your top cut or you will bind your saw.... and be ready to yank your bar clear of the dropping trunk (there are about twelveteen different ways to bind a saw on a leaner).

If it gets too scary, put a comealong and a chain on it and finish your break from a distance. Once the trunk is free from the rootball, the comealong will drag the crown free. Look up as you do this though, as limbs tend to snap out of the leaner's crown. Do you own a hardhat? Pick one up when you buy your wedges.

If you really want to have fun with this setup, use a Griphoist.