Felling wedges

[clinchscavalry]

I started to post a new topic but found this. My job with the county road dept. is supposed to be motor grader operator, but I made the mistake of demonstrating that I could run a chainsaw without cutting my leg off. Now, it seems I'm the designated saw man. We actually have a good bit of cutting, mostly trees that fall across roads, others that are on the r/w where we mow, etc. However, we also have a good bit of trees to fell that are either dead next to the road, leaning over the road or, most likely, called in by some citizen who thinks they are dangerous. This job is very, very political.

Naturally, all of our felling jobs are dangerous (maybe technical is more precise) being near roads, power lines, houses, you name it. Yesterday we had to cut a large pine and could only fell it uphill away from the road, power lines , a neighbor's fence, mailbox, and driveways, as usual. I used a couple plastic wedges to help it start the right way, and we (dangerously) used a backhoe boom to do the rest. The backhoe operator and myself have a pretty good track record (so far), and we make a good team. I have convinced him to go very gently and let me do most of the work, especially on dead trees. However, there was the time his bucket hung on a limb stub we cut off, and the huge tree was carrying the backhoe with it - right on top of me That's another story though.

Anyho, I'd like to get a set of felling wedges if there is such a thing or several of the same size and type. Mine have some serious saw cuts in them now I know some of you scoff at using wedges, but my felling jobs all tend to be a little less stressful when I use them.

Suggestions appreciated!

PS Please don't tell OSHA we exist

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Plastic wedges work well and you will have to keep replacing them. Using good sized limbs work very well. Here Oak limbs and Pine limbs are abundant so cutting a dozen or so is pretty easy when they are still attached to the tree. Also if you cut your own it is easy to make a wide variety. Why not shoot a line into your tree and pull them with your tractors. Thanks

 

[7sleeper]

I prefer making wedges out of crotches from hardwood. Cut them out with your chainsaw and you are good to go. Typically very tough when dried out.

7

 

[Robin Wood]

when cutting dead trees with backhoe assist make sure the guy "knocks" the tree few times to drop the nasty hung up or almost going to break limbs before you enter the cutting zone. like you said this kind of tag team work needs good understanding/chemistry among each other

always assess the tree weight, rot, lean bla.. bla.. bla.. dont want to bore you with details, most importantly stay safe. this field is unforgiving even if its a small error

 

[Philbert]

Plastic felling languages are sold by all catalog vendors and most dealers. They are a semi-consumable item (I clean mine up on a belt sander when damaged, to get more life out of them.).

Plan to have at least three or four. Sometimes they are cheaper if you buy them by the dozen.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Forestry-Woodcutting/Felling-Wedges/

Philbert

 

[JTM]

I started to post a new topic but found this. My job with the county road dept. is supposed to be motor grader operator, but I made the mistake of demonstrating that I could run a chainsaw without cutting my leg off. Now, it seems I'm the designated saw man. We actually have a good bit of cutting, mostly trees that fall across roads, others that are on the r/w where we mow, etc. However, we also have a good bit of trees to fell that are either dead next to the road, leaning over the road or, most likely, called in by some citizen who thinks they are dangerous. This job is very, very political.

Naturally, all of our felling jobs are dangerous (maybe technical is more precise) being near roads, power lines, houses, you name it. Yesterday we had to cut a large pine and could only fell it uphill away from the road, power lines , a neighbor's fence, mailbox, and driveways, as usual. I used a couple plastic wedges to help it start the right way, and we (dangerously) used a backhoe boom to do the rest. The backhoe operator and myself have a pretty good track record (so far), and we make a good team. I have convinced him to go very gently and let me do most of the work, especially on dead trees. However, there was the time his bucket hung on a limb stub we cut off, and the huge tree was carrying the backhoe with it - right on top of me That's another story though.

Anyho, I'd like to get a set of felling wedges if there is such a thing or several of the same size and type. Mine have some serious saw cuts in them now I know some of you scoff at using wedges, but my felling jobs all tend to be a little less stressful when I use them.

Suggestions appreciated!

PS Please don't tell OSHA we exist

I read your post and feel sorry for your predicament partly because I see you are in the state of Georgia which comes under federal OSHA. If you are a county employee, and not a contractor, you are not covered by OSHA in your state. Only states that have an approved state plan, administered by the state and overseen by the Feds, includes municipal government employees in their jurisdiction. If you are a contractor conducting work for a municipal government then you are under OSHA jurisdiction regardless whether or not that state has a state plan. All is not lost however because most state and local governments that do not fall under OSHA recognize that it is in their best interest to have safety and health programs - I said most.

 

[rwoods]

CC, if you have a local Stihl dealer go buy at least two of each 8", 10" & 12". As noted above these are consumables.

Though you didn't ask and may already know - to protect the machine operator when pushing trees your falling cut should typically be below your face cut to help keep the tree from falling back on the operator should the hinge fail. Just the opposite placement of typical falling scenarios.

Ron

 

[clinchscavalry]

"Why not shoot a line into your tree and pull them with your tractors."

We have done this, but our situation normally means a tree is on the R/W near the ditch and treeline (our county is over 80% timbered). This means we can either pull it out into the roadway (not normally done), fell it back into the woods (best but not possible at times), or the typical cut is to throw it on the shoulder. In other words, we don't have room for a long enough cable to be safe.

"make sure the guy "knocks" the tree few times to drop the nasty hung up or almost going to break limbs before you enter the cutting zone"

Excellent advice! I was once under a large and dead pine (my least favorite tree to cut) wearing my helmet with hearing protection. Notice I said my helmet, not provided by the county. I couldn't hear a thing but something started hitting my hardhat while I was about through the cut. This was a little disconcerting to say the least. It was pieces of bark falling while my nervous backhoe guy was trying for a better purchase on the trunk.

"to protect the machine operator when pushing trees your falling cut should typically be below your face cut to help keep the tree from falling back on the operator should the hinge fail."

This is new information to me and something I'd like to think about and/or be educated on further. Please expound on this technique someone. I don't worry much about me. Even at almost 66 and 40 lbs. overweight I can move pretty damn fast for short distances I worry a good deal about the backhoe operator since he is more or less helpless if things go north. (remember I live in Georgia)

Thanks to all for the good info. I am not a pro with a saw by any means but have learned over the years to try to assess every tree, be mindful of the wind, possibilities of tree placement within my own ability, etc. I also am stubborn enough not to let someone talk me into something really stupid. After all, I'm the one who will catch hell if something bad happens. We have been very fortunate so far with quite a few trees taken down in really difficult conditions. Only one was beyond our ability and equipment, and it was beside a county well, power line and house, making it necessary to climb and top (not in my job paygrade)

 

[rwoods]

"to protect the machine operator when pushing trees your falling cut should typically be below your face cut to help keep the tree from falling back on the operator should the hinge fail."

This is new information to me and something I'd like to think about and/or be educated on further. Please expound on this technique someone. I don't worry much about me. Even at almost 66 and 40 lbs. overweight I can move pretty damn fast for short distances I worry a good deal about the backhoe operator since he is more or less helpless if things go north. (remember I live in Georgia)

Ordinarily when using a conventional face cut (typical cut here in the South), you make your back cut a couple of inches above to create a lip behind the breaking point of the hinge to help keep the tree from coming back at you when it falls. When pushing a tree, it is possible for the hinge to break causing the bottom of the tree to push forward off the stump which in turn may cause the tree to pivot on the machine's bucket (or other point of contact) and fall back on the operator if the tree's center of gravity is higher than the point of contact. If you back cut below the face cut in pushing situations, you are creating a lip that may prevent the tree from pushing forward off the stump thus retaining the pivot point at the stump. It is not a fail safe procedure but it gives additional protection should the hinge fail. Maybe my poor exaggerated drawing can illustrate.

Ron

 

[rwoods]

I learned this little precaution from one of our downunder AS members. Personally I try to stay away from pushing but I can understand that your situation is mcuh different than what I typically face.

Ron

 

[clinchscavalry]

OK, that seems reasonable, but can't this type of cut allow the butt (or point at which you cut) to "pop back" toward the machine?


PS Your drawings are very clear.

 

[rwoods]

Yes. You have to assess every scenario. A big danger is a tall tree toppling back on the machine when the center of gravity is above the machine contact. Where the center of gravity is below the machine contact using the reverse method will likely send the cut end into the machine as you noted. This could also happen in the first scenario. And when using conventional cuts. Either lip is just a precautionary measure - it is not a guarantee. So again, you must assess your risks.

Of course pushing dead trees is particularly dangerous as the top can break off and hit the operator. A few years back down in Ocala, my brother warned a dozer operator of this danger. He ignored the warning, the top broke out of the tall pine he was pushing and it landed squarely between the operator's legs. He was shaken but not hurt. It could have just as easily killed him.

Ron

 

[Robin Wood]

dont want to ruin the moment but there was an incident in our local logging scene, excavator operator was trying push to a big tree with 2 guys cutting a big tree from both sides(back cut) to prevent it from barber chair

the tree was too heavy and backflipped on the excavator crushing the operator and his cab. the only thing left was the excavator arm, everything else were crushed. they had to pry his body out from the mangled cab.

i heard the arm wasnt long enough to give leverage for the push, on some tall trees this pushing method might not always work

 

[rwoods]

Very true, RW. If I had a choice pushing would usually be the last. I would hate to be relying solely of the lip in any event. Ron

 

[Robin Wood]

i've done some pushing using backhoe's personally and for me the tree has to be short, like you said when a tree is above certain height
it'll become too risky and complicated. especially when the machines arm cant reach at least 60% of tree height

if you have limited space/constraints you might want to consider using snatch block and a good solid line. running from the tree top across
to an anchor point then back to your machine. which will allow you to "pull" from the "push" angle, which is alot safer.
just make sure to tie the point on a solid trunk at about 80% tree height

 

[clinchscavalry]

Good discussion here. I will be the first to say that pushing with a machine underneath the tree is risky, and, like I said, I worry about the operator. Ours is a very good one, and that gives me a little confidence. I won't let him push if the tree is severely leaning the wrong way.

We just have no way of putting a cable high enough to really get leverage, but if we can get as high as the bucket we should have nearly the leverage of using the boom alone and even more if we use a snatch block. I have all the cables, etc. and will just have to loan them to the county when we do a job.

BTW, I ordered four more wedges last night, but the wooden ones pictured in this thread look great, and I'll make some if and when I ever find the time.

Those of you who are retired Those of you who can, go ahead and do it. Meanwhile, the poor planners like me will drag on to work

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Those with experience know the value of a line that will give leverage to any tree situation. Never have seen a tree that could not have a line shot at least 50' straight up onto some branches. I bought a powerful crossbow for $50. There are many other methods that can accurately place a line wherever you need it. My crossbow can place a line 100' straight up. If a 100' will not do it then it is too precarious for me. Thanks

 

[Johnnybar]

Very true, RW. If I had a choice pushing would usually be the last. I would hate to be relying solely of the lip in any event. Ron

Agree adamantly. Equipment isn't known for outrunning or sidestepping a misjudged tree and never will be. If you're not experienced with when to, and more importantly, when not to use equipment...stay away from the temptation.

 

[Philbert]

Never have seen a tree that could not have a line shot at least 50' straight up onto some branches.

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=455

Philbert

 

[Johnnybar]

Very true, RW. If I had a choice pushing would usually be the last. I would hate to be relying solely of the lip in any event. Ron

Even the pros goof up: