J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
Seems like the only luck I have with uneven back cuts is when it happens early in the fall.
Hinge question
- Thread starter Brian VT
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I'll give you that Randy, no two circumstances are the same.
I also think the term pull is misused.
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Blakesmaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just took a #### and was trying my best to wrap my head around what your thinking is here, Andy. Normally I would write you off as some bozo because I don't know you from Adam, but I had been under the impression that Treeco actually knew his #### and seeing him agree with you has me in a state of utter bewilderment. So I decided to give it some more thought on the can.
If we're talking straight textbook definition of a hinge's purpose yes, you are right. A hinge is not designed to "pull" a tree away from the face, your face determines the fall and your hinge guides the tree to your face. Brian's question is a bit silly ( no offense Brian ) because who would want to direct their tree anywhere other than the face?
However, if you look at his diagram you will see a very clear picture of what he's asking. A straight pole, not weighted or leaning at all to favor any side more than another, with solid hinge wood. Can a hinge cause the tree to fall a direction other than the face? The answer is yes, it can. And the type of hinge shown in the diagram will lead the tree to A. Watch Murph's vid, all it takes is a click.
No offense taken. I was not only curious because I thought there might be an advantage (to make up for a face that was gunned a bit off ?) but it might also explain missing the target slightly when the face was gunned right on ?
Thanks for emphasizing the "textbook". That was my intention here.
I know there are a million variables. I just want to understand this one right now.
I would agree with this statement. The face cut will have the most influence over the fall of your telephone pole. It is forms half of the hinge, after all. More than that, it forms the bottom half of the hinge where most of the weight/pressure is going to be. Even so, the final shape of your hinge will have still have an effect on how the tree falls. This has been my experience. Yes, we have been able to move trees a fair amount doing this. The problem with trying to adjust the shape of the hinge to control the fall of the tree is that you are normally making those adjustments at the last second as the tree is starting to fall. In other words, you are still standing there cutting, when you should be getting the heck out of the way. The tree SHOULD be cut so that the hinge is even. If in doubt, put a rope in it, and/or use some wedges.
I agree. That's all I've ever done.
I just posted this because I can't cut now and I'm bored and I was just wondering, for future reference.
J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
I bet most people have messed up a face and may have tried using the hinge to compensate,I know I have.
I have also lost a few doing dumb ####.Its best not too hurry when yer messin with something that can kill you.
in my neck of the woods we sometimes face a tree toward the lean a bit so as to have more "holding wood" or hinge to help swing the tree. some of yall will probly say im crazy for not facing a tree toward the intended lay but in some situations its more important to have the extra holding wood.
as someone else said, every tree is different and only through experience can a person learn how best to handle any given situation.
as someone else said, every tree is different and only through experience can a person learn how best to handle any given situation.
I'm actually subscribe to Murph's youtube channel, he makes some good videos. However if you look at the stump in his video the hinge was cut completely through on the right side, the hinge IMHO failed on that side of the tree. His cut was a swinging dutchman. I think the word pull has been misused, holding would be a better term.
Those "steering" cuts I do plenty of when thinning forests on hillsides. I've done millions of them. Thinning, there's bugger-all room to place your tree without damaging the crop trees or getting PITA hangups. On a hillside a steering cut lets you drop your tree sideways into gaps across the hill without it snapping at the hinge and falling straight downhill where it naturally wants to fall. The steering cut is way easier and less hassle than having to lug wedges and a stupid hammer around and having to hammer the bloody things in against gravity with a thick hinge . Also comes in handy for "rolling" your tree into tight gaps on the flat.
Dropping the tree with an uneven hinge lets the tree start to tip and using the thicker hinge on one side ensures the tree is gonna land where your notch is aimed without falling off to the downhill side as it tips. It's all a matter of experience as to how far to go depending on wind, slope, un-eveness of tree etc.. etc,, And it only works on the smaller trees up to a certain size, with big mothers you've no choice but to hammer at them with wedges, and it also only works with softwoods, hardwoods such as eucs just snap and go any old where if you try steering them
Dropping the tree with an uneven hinge lets the tree start to tip and using the thicker hinge on one side ensures the tree is gonna land where your notch is aimed without falling off to the downhill side as it tips. It's all a matter of experience as to how far to go depending on wind, slope, un-eveness of tree etc.. etc,, And it only works on the smaller trees up to a certain size, with big mothers you've no choice but to hammer at them with wedges, and it also only works with softwoods, hardwoods such as eucs just snap and go any old where if you try steering them
Everyone lets keep the thread civil if at all possible, so far it has been for the most part. Threads like this are true discussions of a particular topic.
Anyway I found the old thread and video I was looking for, the video is in the first post of this thread. http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/34252.htm
Anyway I found the old thread and video I was looking for, the video is in the first post of this thread. http://www.arboristsite.com/tree-care-videos/34252.htm
If you think that guy makes good vids, that says something about you..
Just sayin. .
One thing many of these posts have overlooked is that the beginning of the fall and the end of the fall are very different. You aren't going to swing a tree once the hinge is closed. Likewise, before the fibers begin to bend, the hinge is just wood that hasn't been cut yet. Swinging happens while the tree is still upright, and that's where the hinge is able to steer a tree. Once the face closes up, the tree is committed to a direction, but hinge and face configuration will determine where and how the tree lands.
J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
Thats whats been my experience.I don't log,just cut firewood from standing trees 10-15 cord a year.I know from dropping a few thousand over the years that uneven hinges do affect direction of the fall,but it all happens in the 1st few deg if its going too at all.If I had my druthers I'd druther be several ft away and have my saw with me when this happens,something thats not allways posible when you cut tru a hinge.I know from experience also that it less work not to make a mess in the 1st place than it is cleaning one up afterwards.Leaving the terminalogy out of it here,whether the hinge pulls,pushes or whatever it can and does affect the fall.
J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
And if you look at ekka's video other than stagger for the wedge,his back cut is even with the bottom of the face.I don't cut for logs so pull is no problem but I try and make my back cut a little higher,am I doing it wrong?
I was being kind as I don't always agree with his techniques, but he is an arborist not a faller. If I had to guess a certified arborist knows quite a bit more about trees than you do.
Just sayin. .
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Swinging a tree like you described is much more involved than simply tapering the holding wood, correct?
Your back cut should be above the notch.
I think the video you're talking about has the bore cut ? That bore would be above the notch right where a normal back cut would end. Then the holding strap on the back of the tree gets cut above or below the bore cut to release the tree.
Now we're way off topic, though.
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