J.W Younger
ass kissing impaired
Seems like the only luck I have with uneven back cuts is when it happens early in the fall.
I think we are having a problem with terminology. Pull, swing, hinge, holding wood mean different things to different people. Just check out how many terms there are for just facecuts.
If the tree leans to the left of the lay, a thicker hinge (holding wood) on the right, will pull the tree toward the center. The facecut determines direction of fall, the hinge/holding wood is used to influence the stem's movement in relation to the facecut. This is a simple view of what can be a very complex piece of work.
It is tough to explain this with text, much easier at the base of a tree.
2Dogs is correct, Andy is too, so are some others. There just isn't one answer, although that won't stop the debate.
Why is it everyone that disagrees with me in this thread has something nice to say.:msp_rolleyes: This says alot about the intellect of those whom disagree with me, in this thread. Yes the felling cut can influence the tree to some degree, however the hinge will not pull the tree to one side, how could it, think about it a little more.
No offense taken. I was not only curious because I thought there might be an advantage (to make up for a face that was gunned a bit off ?) but it might also explain missing the target slightly when the face was gunned right on ?Brian's question is a bit silly ( no offense Brian ) because who would want to direct their tree anywhere other than the face?
Apparently there was some serious debate on this. lol I have no idea why. Both your hinge and your face will affect the fall. As will lean and how the tree is weighted. There are no absolutes. Saying your hinge cannot affect the lay is idiocy.
YouTube - murphy4trees's Channel
I agree. That's all I've ever done.The tree SHOULD be cut so that the hinge is even.
I bet most people have messed up a face and may have tried using the hinge to compensate,I know I have.I agree. That's all I've ever done.
I just posted this because I can't cut now and I'm bored and I was just wondering, for future reference.
However, if you look at his diagram you will see a very clear picture of what he's asking. A straight pole, not weighted or leaning at all to favor any side more than another, with solid hinge wood. Can a hinge cause the tree to fall a direction other than the face? The answer is yes, it can. And the type of hinge shown in the diagram will lead the tree to A. Watch Murph's vid, all it takes is a click.
Those "steering" cuts I do plenty of when thinning forests on hillsides. I've done millions of them. Thinning, there's bugger-all room to place your tree without damaging the crop trees or getting PITA hangups. On a hillside a steering cut lets you drop your tree sideways into gaps across the hill without it snapping at the hinge and falling straight downhill where it naturally wants to fall. The steering cut is way easier and less hassle than having to lug wedges and a stupid hammer around and having to hammer the bloody things in against gravity with a thick hinge . Also comes in handy for "rolling" your tree into tight gaps on the flat.
Dropping the tree with an uneven hinge lets the tree start to tip and using the thicker hinge on one side ensures the tree is gonna land where your notch is aimed without falling off to the downhill side as it tips. It's all a matter of experience as to how far to go depending on wind, slope, un-eveness of tree etc.. etc,, And it only works on the smaller trees up to a certain size, with big mothers you've no choice but to hammer at them with wedges, and it also only works with softwoods, hardwoods such as eucs just snap and go any old where if you try steering them
I'm actually subscribe to Murph's youtube channel, he makes some good videos. However if you look at the stump in his video the hinge was cut completely through on the right side, the hinge IMHO failed on that side of the tree. His cut was a swinging dutchman. I think the word pull has been misused, holding would be a better term.
Thats whats been my experience.I don't log,just cut firewood from standing trees 10-15 cord a year.I know from dropping a few thousand over the years that uneven hinges do affect direction of the fall,but it all happens in the 1st few deg if its going too at all.If I had my druthers I'd druther be several ft away and have my saw with me when this happens,something thats not allways posible when you cut tru a hinge.I know from experience also that it less work not to make a mess in the 1st place than it is cleaning one up afterwards.Leaving the terminalogy out of it here,whether the hinge pulls,pushes or whatever it can and does affect the fall.One thing many of these posts have overlooked is that the beginning of the fall and the end of the fall are very different. You aren't going to swing a tree once the hinge is closed. Likewise, before the fibers begin to bend, the hinge is just wood that hasn't been cut yet. Swinging happens while the tree is still upright, and that's where the hinge is able to steer a tree. Once the face closes up, the tree is committed to a direction, but hinge and face configuration will determine where and how the tree lands.
And if you look at ekka's video other than stagger for the wedge,his back cut is even with the bottom of the face.I don't cut for logs so pull is no problem but I try and make my back cut a little higher,am I doing it wrong?I'm actually subscribe to Murph's youtube channel, he makes some good videos. However if you look at the stump in his video the hinge was cut completely through on the right side, the hinge IMHO failed on that side of the tree. His cut was a swinging dutchman. I think the word pull has been misused, holding would be a better term.
If you think that guy makes good vids, that says something about you..
Just sayin. .
And if you look at ekka's video other than stagger for the wedge,his back cut is even with the bottom of the face.I don't cut for logs so pull is no problem but I try and make my back cut a little higher,am I doing it wrong?
One thing many of these posts have overlooked is that the beginning of the fall and the end of the fall are very different. You aren't going to swing a tree once the hinge is closed. Likewise, before the fibers begin to bend, the hinge is just wood that hasn't been cut yet. Swinging happens while the tree is still upright, and that's where the hinge is able to steer a tree. Once the face closes up, the tree is committed to a direction, but hinge and face configuration will determine where and how the tree lands.
Your back cut should be above the notch.I try and make my back cut a little higher,am I doing it wrong?
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