Husqvarna 2100 Jungle Type

[Real1shepherd]

Old thread, but I hope my onsite here can help someone. I'm not a small engine guy but I am a pro heavy duty mechanic. I've been working on and learning about 2100s for a few months.

I have a gulf piston in mine currently. The locating pins go to the intake side. The reason is simple and straight forward. Grab your piston assembly. Look at the location of the pins. If they centre over a port in one orientation and do not in the other orientation then it goes the way they don't centre over a port. If the ring ends are over a port they will open when crossing the port catching the port and tearing the ring land off like the piston in the picture a few pages back.

Other than that, this is a good thread with lots of good info. My 2100 was my Dad's. He fell for P&G for 11 years. He bought it new in 1984 or 5 I believe. It has the jungle muffler, but had a different type of piston I haven't seen online before. It is much lighter with huge ports, but has the 1.5mm rings. The intake manifold failed on it and it cooked that piston and cylinder. I've contacted a few places that will repair and re nicasil these cylinders for $300, so don't throw them out if they are pooched. May not be worth it yet but in another ten years...

Just as an FYI and a cautionary tale....folks who have had this done report indifferent quality. It would seem that spending the $300-$400 to have the plating done does not guarantee you anything. I can assure you that plating the occasional cylinder from random chainsaw collectors is about as important to them as a coffee break. They're looking to do lots and numbers where they can control quality better. Still, that's no excuse for a poor plating job.....which is the point-you're risking your money in this venture.

Kevin

 

[flying pig]

Maybe Kevin, but one of the companies I approached has done some pretty bad cylinders for me from sleds and even matched porting at no additional cost. One had a dropped sleeve skirt and was repaired, and I'm sure you can picture what that looked like.

 

[Real1shepherd]

DO list the contact info and the site if you would. We NEED good references in this game. I would have a couple of cylinders done If I thought I would get a square deal and not have to sweat the quality of the work.

Kevin

 

[flying pig]

http://www.cvtech-aab.com/en/

$289 Canadian was the quote they gave me. I messaged them through email, may have deleted the email.

 

[Real1shepherd]

http://www.cvtech-aab.com/en/

$289 Canadian was the quote they gave me. I messaged them through email, may have deleted the email.

So you have significant positive feedback from this service? (Thanks for the link.)

Kevin

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[flying pig]

Yup I've never had a bad one from them. I used them for cylinders on an 800 Polaris and on my 800 Polaris based 1200 triple. The worst was the one that dropped the cylinder skirt. It stopped the crank dead. They welded it up and re plated it and sent it back. As far as I know it's still going.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Awesome. What I've heard about some of these plating services is that the plating is not visibly uniform and that when measuring the cylinder top to bottom, they are wholly inconsistent.

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[flying pig]

Bernard's cylinders have been good enough in my experience that I've never even thought of measuring them. A few friends who build sled engines here use them too and I've never heard them have anything negative to say. If I had the extra $300 lying around I'd send my poor condition 2100 cal out just to see.

I've seen cylinders re sleeved especially with big bore sleeves come out poorly, even from some of the bigger performance shops. Things like ports being covered by the sleeve etc. I don't know enough about it to say why the cylinders are coming out poorly after coating, but maybe those shops are simply coating over previous wear with no thought to machining the cylinder to a uniform size I.e. To bore to the point of max wear before coating back to size. Maybe that's what is going on. Max wear should be at the top of ring travel, in your experience with those cylinders is that what you were finding?

 

[Real1shepherd]

Yes, most of the wear appears at the top. I measure the middle and bottom as well...measuring four points around the bore.

No for the money, the consumer should expect a near perfect job. I don't think it's rocket science....especially for those who coat these day in and day out.

When you can find a 2100 NOS jug, you're going to pay about this anyway.

Kevin

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[flying pig]

Definitely, I lucked out with a near new condition cylinder a few weeks ago @$150

 

[Real1shepherd]

Wow.....good snag!

When I went through my old 2100, polished and measured the bore, it was in incredible condition given its tough work life. I replaced one crank seal and that shaft seal & O ring on the other side. Not crazy about that arrangement.....would like to have just the two crank seals to replace as in most saws. Gonna have to do a vacuum and pressure test now, because the saw isn't running right.... Tried two different carbs.

Very frustrating and I need that saw for a larger scale job. Time on a bench is really tough for me right now and nobody around here I'd let touch that saw.

Kevin

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[flying pig]

I did a carb kit in mine a while ago, trusted the dealer when they told me an rk-23hs kit changes up to an rk-21hs. Well, it doesn't. Saw would run wayyy fat on top and lean down low and all over the place. Moving the needle lever off floor plate height would move the rich/lean condition but it never could be tuned right out. I gave up and found a 23hs kit and voila! Good as new on the first crack.

 

[Real1shepherd]

I did a carb kit in mine a while ago, trusted the dealer when they told me an rk-23hs kit changes up to an rk-21hs. Well, it doesn't. Saw would run wayyy fat on top and lean down low and all over the place. Moving the needle lever off floor plate height would move the rich/lean condition but it never could be tuned right out. I gave up and found a 23hs kit and voila! Good as new on the first crack.

Wow.......makes me wonder if I got the right kit either. I haven't been paying enough attention to those kits other than the carb-to-manifold gasket is completely wrong in the kit and doesn't cover up the impulse channel. I found the right Husky gasket for that.

You give me hope! What you describe is exactly what the saw is doing...un-tunable. Carb is off anyway...I'll look for the correct kit, thanks!

Kevin

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[flying pig]

I lucked out and found a NOS tillotson carb kit at a local dealership, last one they had. I put it in just the way it came and that saw has never ran better since I've had it. And that's saying something as it only has 110lbs of compression when it's hot right now.

Dad said when he'd start having troubles with the carb he'd order 6 kits and then mix and match bits until one worked properly. He said that if it started good but wouldn't tune he would only change the metering side out. If it ran good but wouldn't start well he'd do the pump side only. Makes sense I think. Seems overkill to change parts that much, but it could have been that he didn't know why it was doing things so just changed stuff till it went right.

 

[flying pig]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Husqv...3D112149759886&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460

This might help someone out. Cylinder looks like it may have a mark or two in one pic but maybe not

 

[Real1shepherd]

Cylinders are almost impossible to photo inside. I just ignore Net pics unless there's an outstanding flaw apparent. I don't see any apparent aluminum transfers...but my eyes aren't the best. Good deal I think with all the parts including the oiler.

After I polished my cylinder and put in Cabers, I only got about 155lbs/psi. But then I haven't been able to run a lot of tanks through it because it's misbehaving. They can run on less...witness yours.

When I was logging, I'd put a kit in once a yr...whether it needed it or not. There's not much to them, so I never would piece meal the service. But then I was used to rebuilding all makes of four barrel carbs for friends & racers. Often that tiny screen under the Welsh plug is clogged. This is probably a shot in the dark, but hope that the OEM Tilly kit will work. I suspect the Chinese have gotten into this and are putting out carb kits.

Kevin

 

[president]

Yep, toward exhaust. Somewhere in the bowels of these saw forums are the reasons they switched the pins toward the intake and what they beefed up in the 2100/2101 design. It's really only important if you're installing aftermarket stuff. There's been a couple of folks who installed the piston wrong(or a wrong piston) and grenaded the jug.

Now, if I could just find a real hard copy of the 2100 Service Manual, I'd be in Heaven. I've looked so long, I've about given up. Lost one at auction in eBay for $50. I had one once and it was lost/stolen. All the digital copies online have their pics looking like melting chocolate bars.

Kevin

Kevin,

Yep, toward exhaust. Somewhere in the bowels of these saw forums are the reasons they switched the pins toward the intake and what they beefed up in the 2100/2101 design. It's really only important if you're installing aftermarket stuff. There's been a couple of folks who installed the piston wrong(or a wrong piston) and grenaded the jug.

Now, if I could just find a real hard copy of the 2100 Service Manual, I'd be in Heaven. I've looked so long, I've about given up. Lost one at auction in eBay for $50. I had one once and it was lost/stolen. All the digital copies online have their pics looking like melting chocolate bars.

Kevin

kevin ,go to www.mymowerparts.com .you will see a side bar with parts manuals downloads
they are free .in the husky files I think 92000 or close is the free immediate copy.Unlike STIHL
husky thinks that tyhe guy in the field might just want to know how to get them up and back into
service .just keep opening the files until this model appears. good luck

 

[Real1shepherd]

Kevin,

kevin ,go to www.mymowerparts.com .you will see a side bar with parts manuals downloads
they are free .in the husky files I think 92000 or close is the free immediate copy.Unlike STIHL
husky thinks that tyhe guy in the field might just want to know how to get them up and back into
service .just keep opening the files until this model appears. good luck

The Internet copies are garbage....even the pay downloads. The pics look like they were dropped into a vat of chocolate. It's as if there was one poor, original copy and everyone piggy backed off that one.

No shortage of 1100CD hard copy manuals out there...have one of those.

I also have two huge Husky workshop manuals that cover all model changes and factory fixes....but the SM's are not included in there.

A guy downunder linked me to a place that had the SM in PDF with usable pics for the 2100. Like I said, gave up on the hard copy.

Kevin

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[Real1shepherd]

Also, I encourage everyone to use the 'redneck' cylinder test when evaluating pistons. Turn the cylinder upside down withe the sparkplug still in place...drop the piston minus the rings into the cylinder. If it floats to the bottom, the piston is good.... just clean it up. If it just goes kerplunk, toss it. Assuming your cylinder is decent.

Kevin

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[flying pig]

Well, time for another update. I'm quite into 2100s now and more so all the time. I bought a second one that runs like new. It's a thick ring with the standard side exit muffler. It has no brake and a full wrap. This saw is Strong. With a 36" bar and chisel skip on it it's really hard to stop the chain even dogging in like a prybar.

I bought the thin ring folklore and pulled the gulf piston and scratched jug off Dad's saw and lucked out with a very lightly used thin ring C sized piston for my C sized jug. There is a small molded in cap in the cases over one of the ignition screws that has to be clearanced on a non thin ring case in order to use that piston. It all fit up well.

I had previously pulled dad's welch plug governor block out when the carb kit was flustering me so it wasn't blocked. Let's just say that I definitely will be re blocking it. From some reading I've done, it appears the gains the thin ring make are all in high rpm. This saw is a dog compared to the thick ring. I'm hoping it wakes up with the governor blocked, or it was a total waste of time and money going to the thin ring for a work saw. It's making about 150# compression with this combo and both piston and cylinder are as new. Seat of my pants, the old cylinder with the gulf piston and 135# compression made as much or more power, and the thick ring saw flat out decimates it. Could just be that the old girl is a dog and that's how she is now. But considering out of all the 2100s he had this is the one he kept, I would say it's a change I've made that's done it.

Anyway, other things I've found by trying the different options on the two saws:

The half wrap bar makes the saw feel much more solid in the hands. But that saw vibrates more. (Could be the factory grind on Oregon 58L too. Try it with my grind on it tomorrow).

The jungle muffler is extremely quiet to operate compared to the side exit. This was dad's reason for purchasing this muffler to be installed on his saws. He wouldn't take a 2100 with a side exit. Also he told me until the end of his falling career the saws up here in northern Alberta came with no brake. He always was required to purchase the brake and cover and have them installed on his saws as it was a WCB requirement by then.

On a side note, crank seals are just standard metric seals and can be purchased from local suppliers. I've also found that a Cat 6v9746 oring works for the seal on the outside of the oil pump. I've run a few tanks through using them and there's no leaks.