Lets talk skidders...

[Metals406]

The units to be cut ( #1 and #2) surround the old Ranger Station...

 

[Metals406]

Pics of the surrounding area that burned as well...

These last three pics are kind of a panorama... I'll try and make a .gif of them and post them up.

 

[Cletuspsc]

I would look into a grapple machine for shure. . . ..your goin to go insane setting chokers on that stuff. . . .if you do go cable set your self up with sling type chokers (cable chokers) and like 8 or so.

 

[bullbuck]

not much volume there that i can see?it looks like its too late to get any sound wood the tops had broken out of the two decent size trees,or is the volume elsewhere?of course trees always look small until you get up to them

 

[Metals406]

Here's an animation of the panorama... The first and second frames are looking into Glacier national Park.

 

[Metals406]

I would look into a grapple machine for shure. . . ..your goin to go insane setting chokers on that stuff. . . .if you do go cable set your self up with sling type chokers (cable chokers) and like 8 or so.

I agree, and I'm looking into that 540B swing grapple w/ winch that Funkysawman's friend has in Sandpoint. I'd probably set up the winch with 7/16" chokers... Depending on what it has already?

not much volume there that i can see?it looks like its too late to get any sound wood the tops had broken out of the two decent size trees,or is the volume elsewhere?of course trees always look small until you get up to them

The pictures with the trees missing tops are in the sale area, but won't be part of the harvest. The FS cruise estimate says 383 CCF total in the harvest area.

 

[bullbuck]

orange leave tree?383 ccf? i am aware what a cruise is but,is that good?

 

[Metals406]

orange leave tree?383 ccf? i am aware what a cruise is but,is that good?

I estimate there's up to 50 loads there in 132 acres.

 

[bullbuck]

that dont sound too bad looks fairly flat,grapples are fast but they make you fat and lazy(spent several years on one) not to mention one heluva neckache!best of luck looks like some decent wood there!

 

[redprospector]

The part that I like is that when you finish a day's work, you could slip down to the river and fish for a while.

Andy

 

[Metals406]

The part that I like is that when you finish a day's work, you could slip down to the river and fish for a while.

Andy

Hahaha, it's funny you say that Andy. When I was there last night, I was thinking the same thing. That sale is right where Big Creek and the North Fork of the Flathead River converge. I plan on pulling a camper up there, and working 7 days a week (If I get the job that is), at least for a little while. If I feel like I'm making good progress... I plan on fishing my butt off!

 

[RRSsawshop]

Ah,memories I know the area I worked in Glacier Park for 4 years in the 90s,know exactly wear the Big Creek ranger station is.NOW I WANT TO GO BACK!!!! THANKS Metals

 

[Metals406]

Ah,memories I know the area I worked in Glacier Park for 4 years in the 90s,know exactly wear the Big Creek ranger station is.NOW I WANT TO GO BACK!!!! THANKS Metals

Cool! Small world...

 

[056kid]

You will go nutz without a grapple!

 

[jon72]

As the bid date nears for this FS job... It's looking more and more like it's going to be worth putting a bid on. I'm going to go cruise the job Friday I think? Anyone want some pictures?

Anywho, if I bid this job, I'll be purchasing a skidder. I've been watching Craigslist, and other local publications, and there are some good deals out there. I'd like to spend somewhere between 10-15k. I considered a JD 440, but they seem to be a tweed expensive for what you get, and I don't know how pricey, or available parts are? Also, if you don't get the 440D with turbo, I don't think it would be as good a machine... But, I have never ran any of the 440 series.

So, who's ran what, and how did you like it? Clark stuff any good? I think this job would work the best with a winch, but a swing boom/winch combo would be good too. I'm thinking cat 518, JD 640 648? Parts aren't too out of whack on those right?
Which ones should I avoid like the plague?
Anyway, lets hear some opinion.

Every brand has it's pro's and con's,but every brand with an automatic or powershift will need attention sometime @ 10-12k hrs and usually the engines are around the same hrs too.And of course rubber is a big expense too.(just bought two 30.5x32 almost 8k with tubes and mounting.ouch)IMO these big $ fixes are most important to consider when looking at used skidders.Good Luck.
Jon

 

[Gologit]

Another vote for a grapple rig. And if you can get a grapple/winch set up it's even better.

What do plan on doing with the logs? Is any of it still good enough for lumber or will it all go for firewood?

Hand falling or feller-buncher?

 

[spencerhenry]

from what i see in the pictures it looks like alot of post & pole, but also looks like is has been several years since the fire. have you checked to see if the wood is still sound? i would guess that everything horizontal is no good, or at least starting to rot. it may look good on the outside, but the checks let snow and rain into the center of the tree and it will have streaks of rot in it.
if it is what it looks like, my first choice would be a skidsteer with a bunching shear, or maybe a hotsaw, then a grapple skidder to grab the piles and take off. my experience with small wood is that the chokers like to come off on the way out. i have 9 hooks on my winch line, and try to hook more than one tree per choker, but when doing so i almost always have one or two come out. i run 3/8 chokers to help with the small wood, but if under 6" i wrap the choker twice before belling it.
bunch it bunch it bunch it grapple grapple grapple

 

[tlandrum]

looking at this job makes me feel like your going on vacation. what i could do with a job like that. i log in the mountains of east tn and a grapple skidder is just not usable in most cases youll just be setting chokers from a cable skidder. around here i run a 3/4 swedged to 5/8 with 5 bells on 8 ft 9/16 chokers. my skidder is a 667 clark ranger with 60,000 lb winch powerded with a turbo 453 detroit . cheap to fix. it sets on 28l-26 tires. they are rather pricey to replace,but are more stable on this steep ground. i have to agree with the guy that says the clark is the best skidder i have ever owned. it seems to be tougher than the rest. may not have all the bells and whistles but is a lot tougher. from the pics you have there i would go for a 540 ,i never liked the 440 ,they arte just too small for what i do. i just cant get enough productions out of them. go big or go home is the motto in these mtns. hook a few (3-4) 36"dbh 80ft long white or red oaks on the 440 and get a good laugh. my big skidder dont even like that pull. i hope you get the job and make piles of money no matter what you buy or decide to skid with. and be careful with that stuff. looks to be a lot of dead stuff waiting to get you when your not expecting.

 

[Metals406]

Another vote for a grapple rig. And if you can get a grapple/winch set up it's even better.

What do plan on doing with the logs? Is any of it still good enough for lumber or will it all go for firewood?

Hand falling or feller-buncher?

Bob... This is a cash sale, and marketed as 'commercial firewood'... Although, if I get the high bid, I can do anything with the wood. The FS just wants it gone. I have a local firewood guy that produces 2,800 cord a year, and said he'd purchase the sale @ 42 a ton. I also contacted a local logger (Family has been logging in the Valley here for many generations) that is grinding biomass... He said he'd also buy the wood from me, but didn't quote me a tonnage price yet... He wants me to give him more info on the sale, which I'll put together for him tomorrow.

I haven't logged since the late 90's, and when I did it was for a high lead company. This sale isn't a huge money maker, especially after expenses... But it would be work. I have to buy a skidder, fire extinguishers, fire suppression backpacks, shovels, Pulaski's, grass seed, fuel, maintenance items, etc all from the sale money. I figure it's gonna take 10 grand to get the trees out'a the woods and to the yard. Both buyers are 30-35 miles from the sale area, so not too far of a haul. Then 10-12 grand for the skidder, and probably another 3-5 grand for misc expenses. I figure after expenses, I may only walk away with as little as 15k... But 15k beats not working and zero money!

I would hand fall in the morning, and skid from afternoon 'till evening. My only concern at this point, is that some moron is gonna bid the sale up to a ridiculous CCF price, and make it impossible for me to do it. Right now the opening bid is $1.00 per CCF, there are 383 CCF in the sale... I can just see an out of work guy bidding it up to something stupid like $100.00 per CCF... Then he would be stuck with a sale that he couldn't even get out'a the woods.

looking at this job makes me feel like your going on vacation. what i could do with a job like that. i log in the mountains of east tn and a grapple skidder is just not usable in most cases youll just be setting chokers from a cable skidder. around here i run a 3/4 swedged to 5/8 with 5 bells on 8 ft 9/16 chokers. my skidder is a 667 clark ranger with 60,000 lb winch powerded with a turbo 453 detroit . cheap to fix. it sets on 28l-26 tires. they are rather pricey to replace,but are more stable on this steep ground. i have to agree with the guy that says the clark is the best skidder i have ever owned. it seems to be tougher than the rest. may not have all the bells and whistles but is a lot tougher. from the pics you have there i would go for a 540 ,i never liked the 440 ,they arte just too small for what i do. i just cant get enough productions out of them. go big or go home is the motto in these mtns. hook a few (3-4) 36"dbh 80ft long white or red oaks on the 440 and get a good laugh. my big skidder dont even like that pull. i hope you get the job and make piles of money no matter what you buy or decide to skid with. and be careful with that stuff. looks to be a lot of dead stuff waiting to get you when your not expecting.

I hope I get a chance to do this job! I think it would be a lot of fun, and help me get rid of some of this winter "table muscle"!

 

[Metals406]

from what i see in the pictures it looks like alot of post & pole, but also looks like is has been several years since the fire. have you checked to see if the wood is still sound? i would guess that everything horizontal is no good, or at least starting to rot. it may look good on the outside, but the checks let snow and rain into the center of the tree and it will have streaks of rot in it.
if it is what it looks like, my first choice would be a skidsteer with a bunching shear, or maybe a hotsaw, then a grapple skidder to grab the piles and take off. my experience with small wood is that the chokers like to come off on the way out. i have 9 hooks on my winch line, and try to hook more than one tree per choker, but when doing so i almost always have one or two come out. i run 3/8 chokers to help with the small wood, but if under 6" i wrap the choker twice before belling it.
bunch it bunch it bunch it grapple grapple grapple

You are correct... This sale would/could be considered post and pole. I wish this sale had enough of a profit margin to buy some cool equipment, but it just isn't there. If I can do this sale, and make some money, my hope is that the FS makes similar sales in the area, right after this one is done.