Ms 290 problem

[takidd4597]

took muffler off and have pic

I removed the muffler and have a pic of the piston. The back side of the cylinder wall looks good but can't see the wall inside.

I am assuming the piston wall should be smooth. Ok, my son messed up for me and I need to figure out what to do next.

How much would this cost to get repaired?

Is there any way to get it covered under warranty?

How much $ and how hard to fix it myself? Little 2cycle engine knowledge!

Need this saw bad but not much money, I have been unemployed for 3 months and would take a job doing anything but there are none where I am at.

The cheap best guesstimate I guess I am looking for!

 

[howellhandmade]

http://public.jwh.fastmail.fm/images/Piston Failure Analysis Guide - 2006.pdf

Couldn't see how to attach a PDF, but this link is to Husqvarna piston failure analysis guide. Should give you a better idea what you're seeing. If the intake wall of the cylinder looks good, and if straight gas is the only problem it shouldn't be worse than the exhaust side, you may be off the hook with a new piston. Sorry for the kid, I'm sure he just wanted to do anything he could to make things easier for you. Maybe he can learn something about engines with you.

Jack

 

[howellhandmade]

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=MPA+PC2032B&catID=9379

Since you're in for a piston anyway, might as well pull the jug and have a look at the cylinder. You might be lucky.

Jack

 

[olyeller]

Ouch

Bad news takidd; that looks like classic raw gas raw gas damage, which is not covered by warranty. Having the dealer fix it with new OEM parts will run you nearly as much as the saw cost new, counting parts and labor. There is no easy and cheap fix for this one.

The horse is already out of the barn, but don't let ANYONE near your premix can, ever.

Very sorry to give you this news; this has gotta hurt.

 

[howellhandmade]

Bad news takidd; that looks like classic raw gas raw gas damage, which is not covered by warranty. Having the dealer fix it with new OEM parts will run you nearly as much as the saw cost new, counting parts and labor. There is no easy and cheap fix for this one.

The horse is already out of the barn, but don't let ANYONE near your premix can, ever.

Very sorry to give you this news; this has gotta hurt.

Agreed, this isn't one that's going to slip by as a warranty claim, but we haven't seen the jug yet. He said the intake wall looked good.

Jack

 

[thinkxingu]

Looks like for $35 from Bailey's he can fix it, yes? Does someone have a parts diagram or something to guide him?

I was just sitting here thinking that a chainsaw might be something I'd be willing to work on--my cars, quads, etc. all go to a dealer, but if I needed it my saw might go to my bench!

 

[REJ2]

I have kids, and while they were growing up I often thought about the possibility something like this could happen. I have garden tractors, push mowers, tillers both four and two stroke, string trimmers, and chainsaws. I have several fuel cans, each marked with a black sharpie, to indicate its intended use. One kid is grown and gone the other two are middle teens. Fuel cans will remain marked because my biggest fear still lurks nearby, my wife. REJ2

 

[nanuk]

I got

I've got a soft version of the service manual, and IPL.

now my other question, will ALL 029, 029S fit a new 290?

I've got a few of them lying around.

 

[howellhandmade]

I've got a soft version of the service manual, and IPL.

now my other question, will ALL 029, 029S fit a new 290?

I've got a few of them lying around.

Depends how old. If they're 46mm seems like they should, but my MS290 is long gone. That's the Christmas spirit.

Jack

 

[Fish]

Here is a quickie ipl for your saw, so you see how it goes together.

http://h-machine.jp/part_list/stihl_MS290/part_list_MS290.html


Doing the job yourself would be difficult, but do-able. I am tearing down
a new one tomorrow, if you would like, I could take some pics, let you know
what it involves.
THall maybe even has a dark movie of himself tearing one down, he mumbles a bit, but you can always turn the volume off.

 

[WildnCrazyGuy]

It can be fixed allright, sounds like a classic new saw with straight gas or near straight gas... So, everything else should be ok and you know the problem was the gas mix and not a split fuel line or carb issue. So that part is easy.

The hard part is taking that saw apart to get to the damaged piston and possible cylinder. It can be done, but for someone with no experience taking it apart and working on 2 strokes, might take some time, 1/2 day maybe depending upon how diligent you work. Then you'll have lots of parts strewn about. You got to put them all back together, so keep a system so you don't go what was this for?, etc.

Then the hard part comes when you actually get to the piston and cylinder removal. It will come out of the cylinder ok, you look like you've got at least a damaged piston that you'll have to get from somewhere, then if the cylinder is toast, well... Try to clean that up with some muratic acid. Post pics here for opinions of the cylinder. Most of these guys will know if it can be salvaged or if you'll be buying the whole kit and kabutle.

Oh, I mentioned the hard part... With that saw, you NEED to go to your Stihl dealer and pick up another $5 and change part to put the piston back into the cylinder. You have to compress the rings on the piston before they will go back in... PIA without this tool. Near impossible. Well, maybe you get lucky 1 in 50 times without the tool, so $5 well spent.

There are guys on this site that will be very willing to help you through this, me even, but I'm a real amature, but have actually put a couple of MS290s together from a box of parts, so I'm a little familiar with the MS290.

Good luck if you decide to do this. If not, you'd probably do pretty good with parting it out on Ebay or something or selling it as a parts saw with straight gas run through it being that new, you'd get a pretty good amount back with it being the only issue and you could put that back into another maybe. Take it to a dealer and fix it wouldn't be an option really as mentioned, you might as well buy a new saw for what they will charge to fix it. It can be done and parts are available on ebay alot. (Fish?)

Just as I suspected, Fish stepped up while I was writing this book. Good luck!

 

[howellhandmade]

It can be fixed allright, sounds like a classic new saw with straight gas or near straight gas... So, everything else should be ok and you know the problem was the gas mix and not a split fuel line or carb issue. So that part is easy.

The hard part is taking that saw apart to get to the damaged piston and possible cylinder. It can be done, but for someone with no experience taking it apart and working on 2 strokes, might take some time, 1/2 day maybe depending upon how diligent you work. Then you'll have lots of parts strewn about. You got to put them all back together, so keep a system so you don't go what was this for?, etc.

Then the hard part comes when you actually get to the piston and cylinder removal. It will come out of the cylinder ok, you look like you've got at least a damaged piston that you'll have to get from somewhere, then if the cylinder is toast, well... Try to clean that up with some muratic acid. Post pics here for opinions of the cylinder. Most of these guys will know if it can be salvaged or if you'll be buying the whole kit and kabutle.

Oh, I mentioned the hard part... With that saw, you NEED to go to your Stihl dealer and pick up another $5 and change part to put the piston back into the cylinder. You have to compress the rings on the piston before they will go back in... PIA without this tool. Near impossible. Well, maybe you get lucky 1 in 50 times without the tool, so $5 well spent.

There are guys on this site that will be very willing to help you through this, me even, but I'm a real amature, but have actually put a couple of MS290s together from a box of parts, so I'm a little familiar with the MS290.

Good luck if you decide to do this. If not, you'd probably do pretty good with parting it out on Ebay or something or selling it as a parts saw with straight gas run through it being that new, you'd get a pretty good amount back with it being the only issue and you could put that back into another maybe. Take it to a dealer and fix it wouldn't be an option really as mentioned, you might as well buy a new saw for what they will charge to fix it. It can be done and parts are available on ebay alot. (Fish?)

Just as I suspected, Fish stepped up while I was writing this book. Good luck!

Really? I thought the bottom of the bore on most clamshell saws was tapered to ease piston/ring installation.

 

[Fish]

I never found the need for a compressor for the rings myself, but other folks really like them.

 

[takidd4597]

Here is a quickie ipl for your saw, so you see how it goes together.

http://h-machine.jp/part_list/stihl_MS290/part_list_MS290.html


Doing the job yourself would be difficult, but do-able. I am tearing down
a new one tomorrow, if you would like, I could take some pics, let you know
what it involves.
THall maybe even has a dark movie of himself tearing one down, he mumbles a bit, but you can always turn the volume off.

That would be nice fish would probably help out a-lot!

Video from THall you talked about would be nice too if you know how I can get it.

Also do you know where I can get the JUG if I need it for a reasonable price if mine is ruined?

 

[howellhandmade]

That would be nice fish would probably help out a-lot!

Video from THall you talked about would be nice too if you know how I can get it.

Also do you know where I can get the JUG if I need it for a reasonable price if mine is ruined?

Heh, that's the kicker. The positive advice so far kind of depends on the jug NOT being ruined. The construction of this style of saw, where the crankcase is horizontally split and the cylinder is integral with the top half of the case, makes them cheaper to produce, but more expensive to fix. A pro saw with vertically split crankcase and separate cylinder is constructed so that the P&C are easily replaced -- basically wear items. A homeowner saw like the MS290 is expected to run far longer than the average landowner or firewood cutter will need, trading lower initial cost and reasonable durability for not-so-cheap P&C work down the road. It's a gamble most homeowners are willing to take.

If you're uncertain about getting into the saw, you might assess the helpfulness of your dealer and go there first. If he's helpful, at worst he'll pull the jug to look at the cylinder and tell you what you need, and if you can't afford more than his labor for more than pulling the jug at least you'll have it apart if all you need is a piston. You might get some good advice if you decide to fix it on your own. If he's not helpful, well, you might as well learn on your own. I'm sure I've seen threads here on replacing 290 P&Cs, too, so there's always a way out.

Jack

 

[southbound]

Again if the piston and jug are bad look into a 390 jug and piston....

Good time to upgrade......

 

[WildnCrazyGuy]

I never found the need for a compressor for the rings myself, but other folks really like them.

Yea, but Fish, about how many of these have you worked on and put a piston and cylinder in? Hundreds? Me, I only had two to work on and they were a real PIA. Maybe I wasn't holding my tongue just right? I did go get the 290 compressor. I hear that tool is only for the 290. Why so special?

And no, no taper on a MS290. I've seen the taper you talk about on my FS36. Makes it a breeze to put in a piston. Wonder why they're not all like that? I guess that would be too easy, right?

 

[THALL10326]

That would be nice fish would probably help out a-lot!

Video from THall you talked about would be nice too if you know how I can get it.

Also do you know where I can get the JUG if I need it for a reasonable price if mine is ruined?

Sorry man but the Colonel handles all that.

So ya burnt your saw up. Tant no biggie and its not hard to repair either. You will need a cylinder and piston though. Some clean up cylinders, I toss em myself.

You get the parts and I've instructed my partner in crime, aka Fish, to help you repair that saw.

Get the parts you need and start a thread. Fish will guide you every step of the way. He is the master with those saws, I won't tell you why he is but he is...

 

[THALL10326]

Again if the piston and jug are bad look into a 390 jug and piston....

Good time to upgrade......

Good point. I think the 390 set up is few dollars cheaper too. All he needs is the 390 carb jet to go with it and he winds up with much more powerfull saw. Good idea there,

 

[WildnCrazyGuy]

Good point. I think the 390 set up is few dollars cheaper too. All he needs is the 390 carb jet to go with it and he winds up with much more powerfull saw. Good idea there,

Yes, and Tommie will correct me, but if you have to go to a new piston and cylinder either 290, 310, or 390, do they come already put together? So, it's a plug and play type deal and he just bolts it all back together, right? Then he's got a new saw again.