Need advice on using a long bar

[weenieroaster]

I've never had a bar longer than three feet on my 090, but have a rather large tree to cut, so I put on a five foot bar. The bar is a hard nosed Stihl, and like thirty years old. It must have about five or six inches of deflection out by the tip from the weight. Is there a good way to get that monster into the tree without a big bow in the cut, and possibly binding? I thought about using a smaller saw to cut partially in, that would be my 088 with a three foot bar. It seems a bit much to have to bring two big saws to the job. Another thing, is that the 090 is running big half-inch chain, and it probably wouldn't slide into the other saw's smaller kerf. I'm thinking that maybe the best way is to stand back when beginning the back cut, start with the end of the bar and walk into the tree holding the saw level, but the saw is an 090G, with lots of torque, and if one of those big chain cutters got hung up, it would probably knock me on my @ss.

I've never seen such a long bar in use. Any suggestions are much appreciated, job coming up tomorrow or the day after if the weather allows. Thanks for the help!

 

[HUSKYMAN]

What kind of tree is this?

I would leave that pig 090 on the ground and save it for bucking once this tree is down and use a lighter 088 or 066 to do the felling.

Without knowing the size of this tree there aren't too many trees in this world that can't be felled by an 088 and 42" or 48" bar.

 

[wdchuck]

You could use an axe or a hatchett to make a starting kerf.

 

[B_Turner]

I can't image the tree in Japan that needs a 5 ft bar. Or is this a drive by gloat about tree, 088 and 090?

With my 50 inch Cannons, they are stiff enough not to really deflect,but I have hear folks cutting a notch to hold up the end of a long bar to start it,or to pound a small block to do the same. Once into the wood no problems.

Sounds like a fun problem to have. I've personally encountered only a handful of trees that could not be cut halfway with a 42 inch bar. I use long bars to get clean level cuts on large wood to harvest it for use.

In thinking about it some more, I bet you start a cut with a shorter bar and carfully open it up just enough to support the bigger bar and chain.

 

[weenieroaster]

OK, it's what they call a Momi tree over here, a big type of fir that is growing within a shrine. Trees in shrines don't get cut unless they are sick, and many are at least three hundred years on up old. It will need just about all of the long bar if I want to do it in one sweep. We have big trees in Japan, the Zelkovas get huge, and often are subject to rot in the stump and need to be removed. We also have big cedars and pines. Once-in- awhile a big chestnut will come along. Trees like to grow here believe it or not, and many escaped the tree slaughter during the dumb war. The 090G is a pig alright (a nice one), but it isn't the weight of the powerhead that is a problem here...I don't think. I love cutting trees in shrines, but you have to appease the Gods first with a little ceremony.

Thanks for giving it some thought.

 

[B_Turner]

OK, it's what they call a Momi tree over here, a big type of fir that is growing within a shrine. Trees in shrines don't get cut unless they are sick, and many are at least three hundred years on up old. It will need just about all of the long bar if I want to do it in one sweep. We have big trees in Japan, the Zelkovas get huge, and often are subject to rot in the stump and need to be removed. We also have big cedars and pines. Once-in- awhile a big chestnut will come along too. Trees like to grow here believe it or not, and many escaped the tree slaughter during the dumb war. The 090G is a pig alright (a nice one), but it isn't the weight of the powerhead that is a problem here...I don't think.

I wish I could go over to Japan an rough turn a bunch of Japanese wood to send home. I've turned Zelcova from Japan, actually, that had been roughed by some well know Japanese turner and then sent to Amerian artists for an exhibition. It sandblasts cool.

I see you do tree removals in your profile. You are my kind of person to get to know. I chase big wood.....

 

[weenieroaster]

I wish I could go over to Japan an rough turn a bunch of Japanese wood to send home. I've turned Zelcova from Japan, actually, that had been roughed by some well know Japanese turner and then sent to Amerian artists for an exhibition. It sandblasts cool.

I see you do tree removals in your profile. You are my kind of person to get to know. I chase big wood.....

Hi B. Turner
I read that Zelkova also grows in the states. Pretty rare I guess. I often get called in for the big tree jobs. It took awhile to work up to my position, but I'm about the only person around with a big saw who can lift it. That suits me, I enjoy the work, like you, the bigger the better...pay is pretty good too. Anyway, I know I can cut that tree with a shorter bar, but I want the experience of using that long bar. There will be people watching, and a successful job helps bring in more work. I was surprised at how much the bar bows.

 

[B_Turner]

Hi B. Turner
I read that Zelkova also grows in the states. Pretty rare I guess. I often get called in for the big tree jobs. It took awhile to work up to my position, but I'm about the only person around with a big saw who can lift it. That suits me, I enjoy the work, like you, the bigger the better...pay is pretty good too. Anyway, I know I can cut that tree with a shorter bar, but I want the experience of using that long bar. There will be people watching, and a successful job helps bring in more work. I was surprised at how much the bar bows.

It does grow here, and gets pretty big as well. Some folks call it Chinese elm. Really heavy if it is healthy. It really distorts as it dries, even more than any of the elms we have here. I have worked a fair bit of it in the past.

I think you should get a newier shinier (and stiffer) bar to help impress those local folks. How about a big black Cannon or a 59 inch white Stihl ES bar? Got to keep up that look of success!

I spent a bunch of years as a kid in the far east, and my sister lived there for years. Interesting place...

 

[oldirty]

I see you do tree removals in your profile. You are my kind of person to get to know. I chase big wood.....

he had you at zelkova. a new internet romance abloom!

 

[weenieroaster]

That old bar looks good on the big Stihl, since the first thing I did was clear off the rust. I can't really justify the expense of a long bar, since the one meter plus that I have just about covers it. I'm wondering about how much stiffer the newer bars are? I have a forty two inch "woodsman pro", which I think is made by Canon(?). It is the same thickness as the five foot Stihl, so unless the metalurgy is different....? Has thirty years brought bar strength advancements?

I guess I might whimp out and slap on a helper handle, find some fool to hold the other end, at least to start the cut.

 

[weenieroaster]

he had you at zelkova. a new internet romance abloom!

Naw, strictly work related, but is there anything more romantic than the exhaust perfume and the music of a big saw?

 

[B_Turner]

That old bar looks good on the big Stihl, since the first thing I did was clear off the rust. I can't really justify the expense of a long bar, since the one meter plus that I have just about covers it. I'm wondering about how much stiffer the newer bars are? I have a forty two inch "woodsman pro", which I think is made by Canon(?). It is the same thickness as the five foot Stihl, so unless the metalurgy is different....? Has thirty years brought bar strength advancements?

I guess I might whimp out and slap on a helper handle, find some fool to hold the other end, at least to start the cut.

My Cannons are more rigid than any other of my bars, especially Oregons. It gets very noticeable at around 36 inches.

I have two 50 inch Cannon bars, and besides the stiffer metal (it really is), it has a pretty big belly and I think that really increases rigidity.

 

[Urbicide]

We have got to see some pictures of that removal! A 090. 5' bar, big tree, inside a Japanese shrine. Heck, a video would be really cool. Call up Ekka and have him bring some of his foams along with his video camera. opcorn:

 

[weenieroaster]

Don't know about a video, but hope to at least get a few pics. It will be the largest tree that I have ever cut.

 

[Ed*L]

That old bar looks good on the big Stihl, since the first thing I did was clear off the rust. I can't really justify the expense of a long bar, since the one meter plus that I have just about covers it. I'm wondering about how much stiffer the newer bars are? I have a forty two inch "woodsman pro", which I think is made by Canon(?). It is the same thickness as the five foot Stihl, so unless the metalurgy is different....? Has thirty years brought bar strength advancements?

I guess I might whimp out and slap on a helper handle, find some fool to hold the other end, at least to start the cut.

Sorry but there isn't a 5' bar made that you can turn sideways and still keep a chain on it unless you have the helper handle.
The bar must be supported, I do the notch and start the backcut with a shorter bar, then put the big bar on.

Your "project" sounds like a good time, make sure to take lots of pics!
Ed

Notch cut with the "short" bar.

Felling cut with long bar.

 

[weenieroaster]

Good advice, nice photos, thanks Ed.

 

[Grande Dog]

As mentioned previously another smaller saw to cut a ledge. If that's not an option. You need to introduce about the first foot of the bottom of the bar on the tip end and then brace yourself. Put the bar tight to the wood with as much pressure as you can muster. When you hit the throttle it's going to pull the bar straight if you're anchored. As the bar dives in, walk to the tree. Make sure to keep the upper quadrant of the tip out of the cut or it'll kick out.

 

[1953greg]

Sorry but there isn't a 5' bar made that you can turn sideways and still keep a chain on it unless you have the helper handle.
The bar must be supported, I do the notch and start the backcut with a shorter bar, then put the big bar on.

Your "project" sounds like a good time, make sure to take lots of pics!
Ed

Notch cut with the "short" bar.

Felling cut with long bar.

ed*l
for educational purposes, not being critical, why would you start/make a felling cut in that manner?

i would use 24" bar (28" if necessary), and after the notch, begin the felling cut w/ the power head near the center of the felling cut w/ the bar tip missing the far end of the hinge and pivot the bar tip, in an arch, at the power head as the cut proceeds. moving power head as necessary.

in other words, why use a longer bar when a shorter one will do?

 

[weenieroaster]

As mentioned previously another smaller saw to cut a ledge. If that's not an option. You need to introduce about the first foot of the bottom of the bar on the tip end and then brace yourself. Put the bar tight to the wood with as much pressure as you can muster. When you hit the throttle it's going to pull the bar straight if you're anchored. As the bar dives in, walk to the tree. Make sure to keep the upper quadrant of the tip out of the cut or it'll kick out.

Howdy Gregg! Thanks for the input. What you describe is what occurred to me to try, when I first pondered the situation for awhile. I think I might give it a go, at least to begin with, then consider a notch if it isn't working out. My tendency would have been to lightly set the end of the bar into the kerf as you describe, then get the chain going a bit before lightly entering the wood, but as I already mentioned, those big cutters really bite, so I sort of anticipated getting hung up and pushed back. You're saying that the bar should be pushed up real tight first, then throttled. I hadn't considered that method, but it does make sense for a smoother start...hopefully. I'm assuming that it is kind of a max throttle from the beginning kind of thing, the chain speed is slow on those saws, I guess kind of a liability in this situation. Never quite realized how long a five foot bar is, until I put it on the saw.

Regards,
Dennis

 

[Ed*L]

ed*l
for educational purposes, not being critical, why would you start/make a felling cut in that manner?

i would use 24" bar (28" if necessary), and after the notch, begin the felling cut w/ the power head near the center of the felling cut w/ the bar tip missing the far end of the hinge and pivot the bar tip, in an arch, at the power head as the cut proceeds. moving power head as necessary.

in other words, why use a longer bar when a shorter one will do?

Greg, you are correct. the tree could have been felled in the manner you describe with a 36" bar.
Before thet tree I never had the opportinity to use the 60" bar to fell with. That bar had always been used for blocking up large trunks, so I figured I would fell a tree with it once.

Here is a link to the original post: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=669653#post669653

Ed