npw bb7900 my poor judgement

[MS260 Fan]

Howdy,
These BBN 7900's are first generation kits. I just ran the numbers a couple few weeks ago for thread but, I can't find it now. I believe this is the second or third issue out of 350 sold.
Regards
Gregg

350 units sold. Maybe it's my auto background but to me that's super low production. It would be remarkable if there were no quality blips in the first lots. They probably threw that many out before they actually shipped the first one. I think most people would be surprised how much time and potentially cost is involved in developing a 'low cost supplier'. You can't just look in the Yellow pages in low cost countries under "cylinder supplier with equal quality to Mahle" and find 10 legitimate factories. So what do you do? You develop someone.

If cylinders isn't the new suppliers specialty, they can expect a pretty steep learning curve. It's easy to take it for granted that everyone knows the key characteristics involved in manufacturing and inspecting a product. Then you go to the factory and find that they are paying 6 people to ensure the cylinder fins are within x.xxx +/- 0.0001" thick. Focusing their resources on the wrong areas because the key characteristics of a good part are not well defined. Maybe the employees have never seen a chainsaw!

Throwing a guy on "Quality Control" to visually inspect parts will only get you so far. Seems easy. "This would have been caught with a visual inspection". But then what if the bore was tight? He'd miss it and someone would complain. Then you'd give that guy a bore gage and it would take even longer. What if the NiSi plating was thin? Destructively inspect one in 100 cylinders? Cut 1 in 10 up and have a qualified person inspect with an expensive scanning electron microscope? Where does it end?

IMHO, it can't be a low cost part and still have every feature 100% inspected. Even in a world class factory they don't 100% inspect every part.

 

[Jacob J.]

IMHO, it can't be a low cost part and still have every feature 100% inspected. Even in a world class factory they don't 100% inspect every part.

I agree. This is the reason why we got a new roll of Stihl chain once that had all the right-hand cutters facing forward as normal and all the left-hand cutters facing rearward which is not normal. We sent it back to Stihl Northwest and they saved it as a curio item.

 

[MS260 Fan]

I agree. This is the reason why we got a new roll of Stihl chain once that had all the right-hand cutters facing forward as normal and all the left-hand cutters facing rearward which is not normal. We sent it back to Stihl Northwest and they saved it as a curio item.

That's sounds like the new bi-directional chain I was thinking about patenting. Use it until it's worn out and then just flip it around and you're good to go with the other cutters.

I'm still working on getting the drive link design to work in reverse on my design

 

[mowoodchopper]

Fish gets it!

(I'd say something about Hippie Lettuce, but I can't be sure it applies in this case.):hmm3grin2orange:

Baileys will learn if they lose a customer, it is the way of business. If it is an isolated case they won't even miss him.

He'll be happier if he doesn't buy from them, and it will help him get over his frustration this time.

See? Everybody wins.




Mr. HE

Ok I was a little slow on that one, maybe alot slow! That is a good point but I doubt they would notice a few customers.

 

[Fish]

Ok I was a little slow on that one, maybe alot slow! That is a good point but I doubt they would notice a few customers.

They should notice this thread!!! This one may have sent them light years backward in advertising! Do any google on chainsaws, and this site comes up
at the top.

They will likely regroup, and take care of the concerns, even if they are busy.

They know what side of the bread gets the butter.

Just wait until Mon., we should get a full frontal response and plan.

 

[mowoodchopper]

They should notice this thread!!! This one may have sent them light years backward in advertising! Do any google on chainsaws, and this site comes up
at the top.

They will likely regroup, and take care of the concerns, even if they are busy.

They know what side of the bread gets the butter.

Just wait until Mon., we should get a full frontal response and plan.

I like your attitude Fish!

 

[howellhandmade]

They should notice this thread!!! This one may have sent them light years backward in advertising! Do any google on chainsaws, and this site comes up
at the top.

They will likely regroup, and take care of the concerns, even if they are busy.

They know what side of the bread gets the butter.

Just wait until Mon., we should get a full frontal response and plan.

The internet giveth, and the internet taketh away . . .

Jac

 

[Hddnis]

I've ordered many times from Baileys and have been 100% happy with them.

I'll be ordering again, no doubt many times.

A few hiccups is to be expected in any business at any time. Even from the best.

They would have to mess up about three times in a row before I'd start to question the service I was getting. I'd let them know each time, that would only be fair to them.

This reminds me that I need to place an order.




Mr. HE

 

[mowoodchopper]

I've ordered many times from Baileys and have been 100% happy with them.

I'll be ordering again, no doubt many times.

A few hiccups is to be expected in any business at any time. Even from the best.

They would have to mess up about three times in a row before I'd start to question the service I was getting. I'd let them know each time, that would only be fair to them.

This reminds me that I need to place an order.




Mr. HE

Yes I agree you better get that order in , especially while your nose is still brown, you might get it on time!

 

[rms61moparman]

I'm amazed by the amount of people who want to buy a $200.00 piston and cylinder kit for $100.00!!!
It is ridiculous to go to Harbor Freight and expect to buy Snap-On quality.
Hey guys..................There is no Easter Bunny!
And there is no "free ride".
If you want inexpensive there will be corners cut somewhere.
If you want perfect quality and finish, buy the OEM kit and pay the fee!!!

:agree2: If you want quality buy the oem, If you want to take a chance on ruining your saw and alot of time and aggravation then go for the big block kit.
I like baileys and buy alot of stuff there and am glad they stand behind the kit. But I still agree with 2000ssm that I would just find a new company to build them or quit with them all together, it does not look good on a great company to keep selling a questionable product. Here is an example , a local bull ranch here sells bulls , cheaper than a good angus bull cost , 2000 instead of 5-10 so a few guys get bulls there, But one I know who had bought one of these supposedly super bulls at a good price had him in with 25 cows, well this fall when he checked them they were all open. He lost not only the calf price times 25 but all the feed he put into the cows and will for another yr if he keeps them. Well the bull man said bring him back Ill give you another bull. That's fine and dandy but it doesnt look good and I bet he wont sell as many bulls this yr.

The issue is have you heard how many complaints on here alone , and this has been going on for a while. My point is dont by cheap junk and dont sell it if you want to have trusting customers!

I understand exactly how you feel! You thought you were getting a product that was tested and inspected untill it was right! You didnt. Whats so hard for everyone to understand about that?

Just happened to be a coincidence! This thread was going on! I have not had alot of problems with baileys, actually none except for shipping seems really slow over last few months.

Anyway I had ordered some parts I needed for this weekend for a job, ordered them on 02/04/10 they were all there no back-ordered and said shipped that day. So I thought great Ill have them no prob , even had a tracking # so today I decide to check on them , the tracking # was no good , called them he said oh that # is fake just a # we generate to say they are in the warehouse ready to be shipped. I say well whats the hold up then, he says he"ll check. I find out there is no reason just had not got to them yet so they are shipped today, at least thats what they say! No apology no free overnight shipping , nothing Great customer service they have now days!

Thanks brad! I am upset because I needed it this weekend for a job and thought it was on its way, until yesterday. And no I'm not a baileys hater I still buy most of my stuff there, just have a couple issues one being I felt like they could have shipped the stuff express since they said it was their mistake. At least I would have had them for tomorrow. But they did not and also did not apologize for the hold up. The only other issue I have with baileys is the quality of the bb kits, I dont think they are up to Baileys standards, I know they are cheap but I would much rather pay a little more for a little more quality.

Yes I agree you better get that order in , especially while your nose is still brown, you might get it on time!

Now Mo,

I believe you when you say you aren't a Bailey's hater but,
It seems like you have spent a lot of time being critical of them..............I'm just sayin'............SOME around here might get the idea..............you know....


Mike

 

[mini14]

Fish....my thread title says it all, im mad at myself, but when confronted with "why did you buy it in the first place" responses i refer to older posts influencing my purchase. This post was put out there for everyone to realize u still run the risk of getting a "turd", my goal wasn't to bash baileys but to enlighten woodbee buyers to the pitfalls of buying aftermarket....simple fact was that i paid good money for something thats unuseable.....the ports on the other side are gouged far up the cylinder wall and will grenade a ring. With such low production numbers and a supposed q.c. man in place this shouldn't have happened.

 

[brncreeper]

You couldn't give me an new aftermarket cylinder as a gift.
I would't purchase a saw with an aftermarket cylinder, and I stay clear of the ones touched with a grinder...who knows what your getting.

 

[Hddnis]

Yes I agree you better get that order in , especially while your nose is still brown, you might get it on time!

:looser:



Mr. HE

 

[Jacob J.]

You couldn't give me an new aftermarket cylinder as a gift.
I would't purchase a saw with an aftermarket cylinder, and I stay clear of the ones touched with a grinder...who knows what your getting.

That works both ways...

 

[MCW]

In the case of late shiiping I have to defer to Baileys, as much as I disagree with the poor quality of jug being sent out, it is tough to hold every single employee up to the corporate standard or goal, as a company you try to instill the corporate values and goals and that the customer truly is #1 everyday, but not all will follow. You try to weed those out that don't embrace those same goals. I'm sure Bailey's has added new staff to help handle the increase in business, maybe even using a temp service, it's unfair to expect those people to go from zero to Grande Dog's example of service in such a short period. It's just growing pains, I'm sure Nik will figure it out, you can't stand beside every person eight hours a day. It's a molding process, people aren't used to a company being customer orientated in this day and age, takes them awhile, once they accept it works they'll find it is one of the most rewarding places to work.

You may be right regarding the extra staff.

However, I'd be more inclined to think that they have cut staff to cut costs and have found that now customers aren't getting the same level of service they once were. The majority of large companies are doing the same with the current global financial decline. If they can get away with running 40 staff instead of 60 you can bet your left nut they sure as hell will. If they lose $100,000 of business but save $500,000 in wages and associated costs who's in front? Not the customer.

This isn't a dig at Baileys but outlines the mentality of some businesses/companies. I know, I work for one of them and they are in the process of doing EXACTLY the same thing, as are many others I'm aware of.

 

[sachsmo]

Baileys

Baileys is an asset to all chainsaw users. If our only option was to buy from the dealers, most saws needing a cylinder/piston would be tossed into the Dumpster.

Thall has reported all of the saws that were just left on his counter, or traded in (for next to nothing) when the customer found out what the cost of the OEM parts were going to set them back.

If you are forced to spend $300 + labor on a repair, why not buy a new one?

Baileys is good folks in my book, more than I can say about some of the dealers I've had the displeasure to work with.

Has anyone ever had an experience with Baileys not stepping up to the plate?

 

[mowoodchopper]

Now Mo,

I believe you when you say you aren't a Bailey's hater but,
It seems like you have spent a lot of time being critical of them..............I'm just sayin'............SOME around here might get the idea..............you know....


Mike

:monkey:

 

[howellhandmade]

You may be right regarding the extra staff.

However, I'd be more inclined to think that they have cut staff to cut costs and have found that now customers aren't getting the same level of service they once were. The majority of large companies are doing the same with the current global financial decline. If they can get away with running 40 staff instead of 60 you can bet your left nut they sure as hell will. If they lose $100,000 of business but save $500,000 in wages and associated costs who's in front? Not the customer.

This isn't a dig at Baileys but outlines the mentality of some businesses/companies. I know, I work for one of them and they are in the process of doing EXACTLY the same thing, as are many others I'm aware of.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=124344

I think we have to take them at their word that they are adding staff. Aside from the experience people here have had with them in the past, if they claimed that they were adding employees but were really firing them, all it would take would be one of those RIFed employees spilling the beans and it would get ugly. I think that Bailey's is positioned to do very well if, as it seems, more and more people are heating with wood. Those people are likely to be doing so at least partly for economic reasons and are possibly (like me) disgruntled with local dealers. Instant Bailey's customers. Now, if they can just be held on to.

Jack

 

[MCW]

Has anyone ever had an experience with Baileys not stepping up to the plate?

Unfortunately every time I've dealt with them. The difference between you guys in the US and myself in Australia is that we don't know the postage we'll be charged when ordering online. I then have to get a list together of what I want so I can get a postage quote. After that I either pay via Credit Card and get auto billed for postage later (first two times I dealt with Baileys they charged WAY more than quoted but to their credit reimbursed me when contacted). The next time I paid with PayPal so I couldn't get auto billed. I then had 5 packages or something like that instead of one delivered over the space of 6 weeks from memory. Many of these were drop shipped from Dolmar. I paid the same postage but Baileys would have been out of pocket quite a bit. In amongst these packages were about 6 emails asking where the rest of my stuff was as I thought every package was my last

I know other Aussies that have nothing but praise for Baileys but unfortunately for me I've had a problem every order.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Unfortunately every time I've dealt with them. The difference between you guys in the US and myself in Australia is that we don't know the postage we'll be charged when ordering online. I then have to get a list together of what I want so I can get a postage quote. After that I either pay via Credit Card and get auto billed for postage later (first two times I dealt with Baileys they charged WAY more than quoted but to their credit reimbursed me when contacted). The next time I paid with PayPal so I couldn't get auto billed. I then had 5 packages or something like that instead of one delivered over the space of 6 weeks from memory. Many of these were drop shipped from Dolmar. I paid the same postage but Baileys would have been out of pocket quite a bit. In amongst these packages were about 6 emails asking where the rest of my stuff was as I thought every package was my last

I know other Aussies that have nothing but praise for Baileys but unfortunately for me I've had a problem every order.

A speaker of the truth!