Soren Eriksson with his 6 point limbing technique

[dancan]

Good video , the technique is fast and his instruction is clear .
This works for conifers like is shown in the video in flat to hilly terrain , not pnw monsters , hardwoods or working on slopes .
You won't catch me wearing his "Sawing Attire" but I will let the tree and my thigh carry the weight of the saw .
I've posted this video before of one of our members limbing a conifer , different technique , still fast and effective , just more stuff to remember .
If you have only a couple of trees to do , take your time . If your cutting for money , time is money and all the knowledge you can gain to save time will make you money .

[video=youtube;TwWOkJ_A6vI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUkUnnyfxnWdWB7BvGqtNbJw&v=TwWOkJ_A6vI&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

[dancan]

True. Even so, I think he is mistaken saying fallers in the states only limb one side of the tree. ...

I think that was just a stereotype from a Scandinavian point of view , just like we stereotype the Irish,Scottish,Dutch,Germans ....... etc .

 

[Nailsbeats]

Good point on the dogs (no pun intended). I may drag my bar along the trunk, but I am pretty sure that I don't normally drag the case the way he demonstrated.



Video?

Describe?

Philbert

I was half joking.

 

[slowp]

very cool video. his method is not for yarding operations. very smooth and efficiant for softwoods and would work in the upper tops of most hardwoods. cool to see some different methods. do fallers in the PNW limb out there trees for yarding operations? i always thought they left them to be broken off on the way up and cleaned up at the landing.

It all depends. On a lot of Federal land timber sales, the limbs are required to stay out in the unit so if felled by people or machines, the trees are limbed.

Delimbers on the landing are a fairly new thing. A lot of the private lands allow whole tree yarding and then the trees are run through a delimber on the landing. This necessitates a larger landing size because you will have an enormous slash pile to share space with. These piles are great fun to torch off the next year.

Even though the fallers do limbing out in the unit, they don't get 100% of the limbs off. More are broken off during yarding operations, but the chaser is the final processor and he'll take off any limbs that have survived. He's also called a knot bumper because of this.

The "limbing saw" is the same saw used for falling, a 460 or larger. The chaser may use a 440 or 360 size with a 32 inch bar.

I'll see if I have any limbing videos or look for authentic PNW ones.

 

[jeepyfz450]

It all depends. On a lot of Federal land timber sales, the limbs are required to stay out in the unit so if felled by people or machines, the trees are limbed.

Delimbers on the landing are a fairly new thing. A lot of the private lands allow whole tree yarding and then the trees are run through a delimber on the landing. This necessitates a larger landing size because you will have an enormous slash pile to share space with. These piles are great fun to torch off the next year.

Even though the fallers do limbing out in the unit, they don't get 100% of the limbs off. More are broken off during yarding operations, but the chaser is the final processor and he'll take off any limbs that have survived. He's also called a knot bumper because of this.

The "limbing saw" is the same saw used for falling, a 460 or larger. The chaser may use a 440 or 360 size with a 32 inch bar.

I'll see if I have any limbing videos or look for authentic PNW ones.

Thanks for the info. out east we usually cut for a cable skidder, grapple skidder, or forwarder. a lot more to dropping trees then people think. trying to reduce damage to surounding trees and speed up getting them hauled out.

 

[Gologit]

do fallers in the PNW limb out there trees for yarding operations? i always thought they left them to be broken off on the way up and cleaned up at the landing.

On our ground the size of the tree usually determines if we limb it where it fell. The smaller stuff usually goes right to the landing where the delimber, either a stroker or a dangle-head, can de-limb and buck it. The bigger limbs and the tops go into a slash pile that usually gets fed through a chipper. The stuff that's too big for the delimber gets bucked and limbed down to the size where the processor can handle it.
We usually use whatever method gets the logs the quickest.
On some jobs there's nobody working on foot except the fallers, no chaser and nobody bumping knots, everything is done in the woods or by machinery on the landing. That helps a lot with the workman's comp costs.

 

[David (saltas)]

I have the original of this video on VHS. Made in '87 IIRC. His technique is good for Scandinavian logging, or in an area with similar growth. If you want to see this done in modern times, search for videos of the World Logging Championships.

Or, watch this video;

Kunskap Direkt - Avverkning med motorsåg (10 min)

BTW, get ready for the SE haters to show up.

Nice video I learnt a couple of things.

at 9:58 he touches the but of the other log, I'm sure he did not mean to do that

 

[T_F_E]

PNW does it best as usual, long bars and corks. Tree slinger shows how its done about 2 minutes into the video.


First Tree Falling Video - YouTube

 

[Tzed250]

On some jobs there's nobody working on foot except the fallers, no chaser and nobody bumping knots, everything is done in the woods or by machinery on the landing. That helps a lot with the workman's comp costs.

Bob, what is the dbh of the trees on a job like that?

 

[dancan]

A good video on blow downs .

[video=youtube;y6jEec1e6Gw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y6jEec1e6Gw[/video]

 

[imagineero]

I posted that vid in the nerve damage from extended saw use thread;

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/188239.htm

I think it has to be taken in context. That thread is full of stories of guys with fused disks, carpal tunnel, multiple surgeries, loss of grip, loss of feeling, etc etc. Running saws (especially big saws) full time 5 or 7 days a week for years on end is going to do things to your body that are well beyond 'suck it up and carry on'. Like most guys who run saws full time I put a lot of abuse on my body and mask the damage with pain killers, booze and humor. The thread was discussing gloves, AV and other ways to reduce the impact of vibration. Here's the post I put with the vid.

here's Soren Eriksson with his 6 point limbing technique.

[video=youtube;xX9Xj0faq3g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9Xj0faq3g[/video]

From about 20 years ago. I know there's going to be plenty of critics of this, but instead of finding reasons why it wont work for you (there are plenty) try to look for a couple ways you might be able to use it. This is a nuts and bolts demonstration of smarter not harder. Yeah i know, I never get to fell trees that straight and skinny with such small branches either, but the basic idea of letting the saw do the work is excellent. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that this guy could outcut myself and probably a lot of us on here in almost any kind of wood and use less effort and fuel and still be less tired at the end of the day.

Using the saw in ways that the natural motion of the chain and inertia of the engine benefit you lets you use less energy. Look at the guys grip, you can see he must be feeling a lot less 'vibe' by not having to get a death grip on the handles. I know I get my best fastest work done when I'm using a light touch, work becomes almost effortless. Planning ahead and using good technique are really the thin end of the wedge for all saw users.

Shaun

So no surprises to see plenty of people saying its rubbish and wont work for their situation. That's fine, you guys just carry on as you do ;-)

For others who are interested in finding ways to work that put less stress on your body, you can probably adapt a few of the techniques.

For myself, I'm a full time climber and do residential removals and pruning. We see a different species every day, so no real 'rhythm' can be picked up. Very rarely can we drop, it's mostly climb and piece out. Add to that my groundies do all the limbing and bucking and I'm up in the tree most of the time anyway. But I still try to use some of these techniques. I start by using the smallest lightest saw I can, with the shortest bar. I try to keep my saw/bar combos ballanced at the handle because I find that is less work than nose heavy. not much you can do with 3'+ bars though, but I did just order a couple bigger ES lite bars from the states which may help.

I only get a couple years out of a saw generally because they are all run a lot. The cost of a saw isn't that big in the bigger picture for most tree companies, and a day off the job with injuries will likely lose you more than the cost of a new saw anyway. If you're off for a week or a month due to sprains, well.... I'd rather throw a saw away than hurt myself. Scratching them only hurts the first time.

I do try to carry the weight of the saw on my leg or on the tree where possible, especially with bigger saws. I try to consider position when laying out the tree if there is anything to be gained there. Only rarely on trees like norfolk island pines, or cedars, do I get to use that '6 point' thing, but I dont whizz along at that speed. I'm not out to break any records. I do use that basic sequence a lot to try to not have to lift the saw too much, and let the motion of the saw move it on to the next cut, use the inertia of the engine to lift. I do let the nose skid up the bark to lift bigger saws on bigger trees, 5'-6' is about as big as I get to deal with on a semi regular basis. I dont have any bars over 3'.

From what I understand, this technique is taught all over europe where forest workers serve a 2 year apprenticeship. I think they get a lot better training that our guys in aus do, we do a few 2 day courses and then learn from our mistakes and watching others. The technique is obviously suited to their woods, but there's something to learn there for us. Most injuries are the result of overstraining, and I know I can always do to use less energy to get the same job done.

Shaun

 

[Philbert]

A good video on blow downs .

I also like this - pretty good video when you can learn things, even if you can't understand a word he is saying.

I think that the way he carries his saw tucked under his arm is interesting. I also like the way that he cleared a hung up tree (this video or the first one, I forget) using a strap and a stick - that is something that I am sure I can use some day.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

I posted that vid in the nerve damage from extended saw use thread; . . . That thread is full of stories of guys with fused disks, carpal tunnel, multiple surgeries, loss of grip, loss of feeling, etc etc. . . . So no surprises to see plenty of people saying its rubbish and wont work for their situation. . . . Most injuries are the result of overstraining, and I know I can always do to use less energy to get the same job done.

Shaun,

I hope that you didn't take offense at me starting this thread with the video - it was not intended to bash Soren or his approach. I recognize the potential benefits of his method, and why you posted it in the other thread.

I thought that his approach to limbing, and even just having a formalized approach to a supporting task like limbing, was interesting enough to start a thread and promote discussion on the topic. I didn't want to hijack or de-rail the other conversation.

Soren's approach was new enough and different enough to be a great conversation starter. There will always be a range of opinions shared on AS, as well as different working situations, methods, etc. I have already learned a lot on a very basic task.

Philbert

 

[Gologit]

Bob, what is the dbh of the trees on a job like that?

It varies with the type of processor. Some of the big stroker delimbers can handle up to 24" stuff but at tree length it puts a lot of stress on the machine. I don't know much about dangle heads but they're probably about the same. They're at their best in smaller wood. It would take a dozen guys with saws to keep up with a delimber. I don't know about you but the thought of a dozen guys running saws all at once in a small area with machinery moving around makes me want to re-read my workman's comp insurance policy.

Small timber is where a feller-buncher is really handy. They can sort and deck for the skidders and cut out the brush for us poor old hand fallers who cut the stuff that's too big for them or on ground that's too steep. It sure makes the job easier. The downside is that it's thinned out the ranks of guys who fall timber for a living . But the upside of that is that the fallers who have stayed with it are usually the cream of the crop.

It's all about production. Sometimes one skidder will do nothing but bunch logs, sort them to size and species, so that the landing skidders can just grab a turn and go. They spend less time looking and more time hauling when we can pre-bunch for them.

On the landing especially, every move you make costs you money and time...and there's never enough of either one to be wasting any.

I kind of rambled there...blame it on my advancing age. Ask me one question and I'll answer six for you.:smile2:

 

[dancan]

I also like this - pretty good video when you can learn things, even if you can't understand a word he is saying.

I think that the way he carries his saw tucked under his arm is interesting. I also like the way that he cleared a hung up tree (this video or the first one, I forget) using a strap and a stick - that is something that I am sure I can use some day.

Philbert

What was there not to like , he sports a Unclemoustache and runs a 361 LOL !

 

[imagineero]

Shaun,
I hope that you didn't take offense at me starting this thread with the video - it was not intended to bash Soren or his approach. I recognize the potential benefits of his method, and why you posted it in the other thread.
Philbert

No offense mate, just adding a little context ;-)

I'm an advocate of the 'multiple truths' approach to life, so conflicting ideas can all hold value for me.

Shaun

 

[Tzed250]

It varies with the type of processor. Some of the big stroker delimbers can handle up to 24" stuff but at tree length it puts a lot of stress on the machine. I don't know much about dangle heads but they're probably about the same. They're at their best in smaller wood. It would take a dozen guys with saws to keep up with a delimber. I don't know about you but the thought of a dozen guys running saws all at once in a small area with machinery moving around makes me want to re-read my workman's comp insurance policy.

Small timber is where a feller-buncher is really handy. They can sort and deck for the skidders and cut out the brush for us poor old hand fallers who cut the stuff that's too big for them or on ground that's too steep. It sure makes the job easier. The downside is that it's thinned out the ranks of guys who fall timber for a living . But the upside of that is that the fallers who have stayed with it are usually the cream of the crop.

It's all about production. Sometimes one skidder will do nothing but bunch logs, sort them to size and species, so that the landing skidders can just grab a turn and go. They spend less time looking and more time hauling when we can pre-bunch for them.

On the landing especially, every move you make costs you money and time...and there's never enough of either one to be wasting any.

I kind of rambled there...blame it on my advancing age. Ask me one question and I'll answer six for you.:smile2:

Not rambling to me, I appreciate the sharing of knowledge. I'd love to spend a few days on a job like that to see the production. It is great that a company can find a mix of men and machines to get the job done. Thanks for posting Bob!!!

 

[wyk]

I also like this - pretty good video when you can learn things, even if you can't understand a word he is saying.

I think that the way he carries his saw tucked under his arm is interesting. I also like the way that he cleared a hung up tree (this video or the first one, I forget) using a strap and a stick - that is something that I am sure I can use some day.

Philbert

We are taught several ways to free trees in the felling courses in Europe. One is the strap, then there's the lever, using a limb without a strap, and also using other trees if it's deemed necessary, as well as falling the tree it is snagged upon. Many of the canopies are tight in the woods in Europe, and it is quite common for trees to get hung up - especially at the start.

The Snedding you see in the original video you posted is only news to the US. It's been in use in Europe for some time now.

Snedding the way they teach in Europe doesn't necessarily work here for some things. When you have larger saws and long bars, it's easier to walk on top of the trunk than beside it. You could limb faster with a shorter bar on the smaller trees(2 foot and under), but then now you need 2 saws on site or to swap bars... When out in the field, this is a bit of a bother. And often times on a landing you need to buck to length, so a longer bar tends to stay on the saw.

Most conifers felled in Europe are smallish. They simply do not build with wood like we do in the States. At least not yet. They use mortar and oak predominantly. Many softwoods are simply culled so beech and oak and maple may grow. So they do not have the vast Douglas Fir tree farms we do in the PNW that are usually logged at 24-32" in width. Nor do they have the older growth they are currently logging in BC or Alaska and some of the islands out there. They see a LOT of younger cedars, spruce, and larch - and that technique works rather well on such trees.

 

[Gologit]

Not rambling to me, I appreciate the sharing of knowledge. I'd love to spend a few days on a job like that to see the production. It is great that a company can find a mix of men and machines to get the job done. Thanks for posting Bob!!!

If you get out this way any time from Easter 'til Thanksgiving we'll probably be working. Let me know and we'll give you the grand tour. You buy lunch.

 

[Tzed250]

If you get out this way any time from Easter 'til Thanksgiving we'll probably be working. Let me know and we'll give you the grand tour. You buy lunch.

I may take you up on that...