Splitters - Horizontal or horizontal/vertical

[splittah]

Well, on this point he is not in error. Speeco makes the units for tractor supply.......and sells them as Huskees.

Waylan

I see.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Mark, I read the following post by you in another thread I am subscribed to, and I think I see why you do not like the American splitters........



But this still does not explain why you hold other name-brand splitters in high regard, even though they cost twice as much or more than comparably equipped American splitters.

Waylan

I've explained it often enough. Look at the metal. The beef just isn't there. If the American (please note this is the first time I've mentioned it by name) were in the same price range as the Speeco, I'd have a different opinion.

*shrug* It's okay, I just don't see it as being built like the others in its price range.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I see.

So now that we understand your level of expertise in this area, I'll leave it at that.

Enjoy your splitter! It's a decent one.

 

[eric_271]

Actually I majored in architectural drafting and building design and one of the things we were taught when designing steel beam sizes for a particular load is that a "beam that flexes will not break, a beam with no flex will break."

For this exact reason is why skyscrapers and bridges and such were built to "flex and sway" under load and wind conditions. If they did not they would not last very long

Flex and deflection is common in steel frame construction.. Too rigid and it will break.

Considering that I would tend to think your logic is flawed.

I have seen first hand repeated ''give'' or twist in steel frame's and H beams and after a few to many cycles and a little to much twist the beams held that twist. I'm sure this does not escape your logic nor does it mean what you were taught in school was wrong. I work in the field and get to see first hand what works and what does not work. People in the field you are from get valuable feed back from the field I am from helping you to create better stronger design's. Having described what I have seen would you still say my logic is completly flawed. Bear with me here splittah, this is not a steel building, whole different concept. Do you want to see your splitter twisting while splitting? If you see it twisting you can bet strong forces are being applied and at the same time stress's which in time can cause fatigue are happening. As stated I have 0 flex which in this case is ok. There is not enough force from the 34 ton's of pressure to bend or break the heavy H beam used on my splitter and the weld on the end plates is a non factor. Spray welded with 9018 wire and 92/8 gas = deep,deep penitration. Over built and nothing wrong with that.

 

[eric_271]

So now that we understand your level of expertise in this area, I'll leave it at that.

Enjoy your splitter! It's a decent one.

Yep still waiting for explanation for how sway, and wind conditions come into play on my failed logic. The twist I speak of is real and has been discussed many times be for in some splitters and no it is not a desirable trait in a splitter. Here is some more of my failed logic, with the twist that occurs in some beams that twist is transferred into the cylinder, rod and piston bad,bad,bad. The rod and piston are designed to extend straight out and for good reason, too much torsional and side load's created by the twist or flex will cause early failure of the cylinder and that is fact.

 

[walexa07]

Yep still waiting for explanation for how sway, and wind conditions come into play on my failed logic. The twist I speak of is real and has been discussed many times be for in some splitters and no it is not a desirable trait in a splitter. Here is some more of my failed logic, with the twist that occurs in some beams that twist is transferred into the cylinder, rod and piston bad,bad,bad. The rod and piston are designed to extend straight out and for good reason, too much torsional and side load's created by the twist or flex will cause early failure of the cylinder and that is fact.

I don't say you have failed logic.......and I believe he was stating that bridges and buildings require some flex. While I agree that very obvious flex in a splitter is a bad thing........very minor flexing will hurt nothing in the life of a splitter, even if used to make a living.

And even though you state you have zero flex, you probably do.......not visible to the naked eye, maybe in the thousandths or even ten thousandths, but it is there. Your splitter is very nize as are the splitez splitters, I won't argue with that at all.......overbuild has its place.

That being said, there are lots of splitters with much less "beef" to them that have stood the test of time w/o any problems. The advantage to a splitter being designed rather than just using super heavy materials is in maneuvering the splitter.......whether in the woods, on soft ground, or putting in the garage for storage. For my personal needs, I want a splitter that I can move around by hand........even better with a buddy helping........as I imagine cutting and splitting back in the woods I will have help. A large splitter that weighs so much that it requires a pickup to move it anywhere, although super heavy duty, would not be my preference, especially when there are several on the market with no problems that are lighter-weight.

And for Mark, The only thing I see that is not I-beam or "built heavy" on the American is the tongue.........it doesn't need to be I-beam or H-beam.......all it needs to do is be able to pull the splitter down the road. Heavy beam in this location would definitely require a tongue jack, and if you wanted it to be a 14' I-beam, I am sure Larry at American would build it to your satisfaction. I imagine he could even make fenders for the tires out of i-beam, if you wanted.

And I was wrong about 20+ years.........the thread I saw, the guy stated he had it since 1977 I think.........that would make the splitter 31 years old. He has worn an engine out on it and replace the engine, and also has another american splitter........and I believe he said he would never own anything other than an American splitter. Sounds alot better than just a "decent" splitter to me.

Waylan

 

[MJR]

On the Spit Fire it looks like wood chips would fall down into the ram? I have only seen pictures, is this true or is the bottom opened?

 

[eric_271]

I don't say you have failed logic.......and I believe he was stating that bridges and buildings require some flex. While I agree that very obvious flex in a splitter is a bad thing........very minor flexing will hurt nothing in the life of a splitter, even if used to make a living.

And even though you state you have zero flex, you probably do.......not visible to the naked eye, maybe in the thousandths or even ten thousandths, but it is there. Your splitter is very nize as are the splitez splitters, I won't argue with that at all.......overbuild has its place.

That being said, there are lots of splitters with much less "beef" to them that have stood the test of time w/o any problems. The advantage to a splitter being designed rather than just using super heavy materials is in maneuvering the splitter.......whether in the woods, on soft ground, or putting in the garage for storage. For my personal needs, I want a splitter that I can move around by hand........even better with a buddy helping........as I imagine cutting and splitting back in the woods I will have help. A large splitter that weighs so much that it requires a pickup to move it anywhere, although super heavy duty, would not be my preference, especially when there are several on the market with no problems that are lighter-weight.

And for Mark, The only thing I see that is not I-beam or "built heavy" on the American is the tongue.........it doesn't need to be I-beam or H-beam.......all it needs to do is be able to pull the splitter down the road. Heavy beam in this location would definitely require a tongue jack, and if you wanted it to be a 14' I-beam, I am sure Larry at American would build it to your satisfaction. I imagine he could even make fenders for the tires out of i-beam, if you wanted.

And I was wrong about 20+ years.........the thread I saw, the guy stated he had it since 1977 I think.........that would make the splitter 31 years old. He has worn an engine out on it and replace the engine, and also has another american splitter........and I believe he said he would never own anything other than an American splitter. Sounds alot better than just a "decent" splitter to me.

Waylan

All valid points waylan but I was called out on my failed logic then the subject of beams in wood splitters is compared to a building and a bridge. Who is using failed logic there? splittah is a good poster and I am sure he understands with my explanation I do have a valid logic in the design of my splitter. I am sure I do have flex but like you say not to the naked eye. Splitez are a well designed splitter and yes beefy but more for a spacific need and your needs and others are different from mine. I pull my splitter out of my shop to my wood pile,less then 100 yards away. I never cut my wood to length where I cut the trees down. If I did and did not have time to load it, it would be gone by morning. All logs are left about 15' long and loaded in to my wheat truck with my backhoe. At home I cut to length and shove it in a big pile and slpit, no need to move the splitter. If my pile works away and my help starts to travel to far for rounds I use the backhoe to shove the wood closer.

 

[splittah]

I do understand where you are coming from Eric..

And I in no way meant to "call someone out" as you say. I meant no disrespect to anyone here or who reads this as I am sure some people (probably very many) have much more "expertise" than I do when it comes to steel. As I am also sure that many people have more expertise in that area than some of you also.

Maybe I used a poor choice of words with the "failed logic" comment. for that I oppoligize also eric. The point I was trying to make was that SOME flex and bend IS desireable. As opposed to the idea that some here are trying to say that a splitter should have absolutely no give at all, this is a silly idea at best IMHO. As was mentioned above ALL splitters will have SOME movement, you just may not realize it because it is a minor movement.

Something that does not bend at all WILL break eventually, conversely; something that flexes ALOT will also fatigue and break eventually, so everyone here has valid points on bending, flexing and deflection.

This is an absolute fact wether anyone chooses to believe it or not really does not matter to me. Given this it really isn't worth arguing about it.


Some of the posters here that seem to be flaming the american splitters make it sound like they are wet noodles splitting wood. That certainly is not the case.

My splitter does NOT appear to flex at all, however.. I am not so naive that I would argue to the death that it does not, because I am sure it probably does.


I never said 1 bad thing about the other splitters mentioned in this thead. It seems that all the negativity about the american splitters is coming from the "other side" in this discussion. I oppoligize that some were still waiting for explainations to my comments, but I do work full time and have to sleep during the day so my time here is very limited.

Well.. I now must go get ready for work once again.

have a nice night guys.


Dave

 

[eric_271]

I do understand where you are coming from Eric..

And I in no way meant to "call someone out" as you say. I meant no disrespect to anyone here or who reads this as I am sure some people (probably very many) have much more "expertise" than I do when it comes to steel. As I am also sure that many people have more expertise in that area than some of you also.

Maybe I used a poor choice of words with the "failed logic" comment. for that I oppoligize also eric. The point I was trying to make was that SOME flex and bend IS desireable. As opposed to the idea that some here are trying to say that a splitter should have absolutely no give at all, this is a silly idea at best IMHO. As was mentioned above ALL splitters will have SOME movement, you just may not realize it because it is a minor movement.

Something that does not bend at all WILL break eventually, conversely; something that flexes ALOT will also fatigue and break eventually, so everyone here has valid points on bending, flexing and deflection.

This is an absolute fact wether anyone chooses to believe it or not really does not matter to me. Given this it really isn't worth arguing about it.


Some of the posters here that seem to be flaming the american splitters make it sound like they are wet noodles splitting wood. That certaimly is not the case.

My splitter does NOT appear to flex at all, however.. I am not so naive that I would argue to the death that it does not, because I am sure it probably does.


I never said 1 bad thing about the other splitters mentioned in this thead. It seems that all the negativity about the american splitters is coming from the "other side" in this discussion. I oppoligize that some were still waiting for explainations to my comments, but I do work full time and have to sleep during the day so my time here is very limited.

Well.. I now must go get ready for work once again.

have a nice night guys.


Dave

I might have over reacted Apology accepted. I do not have your schooling but I have learned a lot and some of what you said while working, ''welding'' for a bridge company. The company I'm with now does the foundation for sky scrapers, spelling? I do the welding for the tie-backs on steel piles and caissons. Some of these are stressed to 170,000 lbs every 6 feet so the buildings can sway with out falling. I do have some under standing of structure's. Every weld must pass and for a few minutes while being tested they will go over the 170,000lbs then back it off. In other words they want no give on what your building sits on. I have no beef with you or anyone's splitter. A rickety ass old splitter is better then no splitter, and I know that's for sure.

 

[woodguy105]

About 5 years ago I bought a Timberwolf TWP 1 . Just doing 3-4 cords a year then. Now I'm doing 7-8 and happy with it...no problems. I bought the 4way wedge and don't really like it and it chipped up the wedge a bit.

As far as horiz./ Vertical...I had a hell off a terrible time using a friends splitter in the vertical postion on a huge piece of white oak. I'd say go horizontal especially if you get the lift. I do all of my splitting alone and roll the lunkers up onto the splitter using smaller rounds laying flat & increasing in height like a small staircase,closer to the beam.

 

[turnkey4099]

I,too, will take horizontal. Anythign too big to pick up gets either busted with wedges or sawed to size in the field. All my splitting is at home. It makes my back ach just thinking of trying to maneuver big rounds into position at ground level. Another drawback IMO is having to clear out every split as it is done with a vertical. On horizontal just keep splitting until the pile gets too high.

Harry K

 

[Macguy]

American AM-TMH

I have just bought an American TMH log splitter from the dealer in New Brunswick and had it shipped to Nova Scotia for $160.00. The "TMH" mean tractor model, horizontial, no damn engine. To me it appears to be a very heavy duty machine which should last for many years. One other thing, I am through buying any more equipment unless absolutely necessary that does not operate from my 3 pt. hitch with hydraulics or PTO. I am very tired of having an engine for every damn contrapation, winterize the mower and tiller, summerize the snow blower, geeeezzzz, a pain in the ass.

I have not yet had the chance to use my new splitter as a tiller is on the back of the tractor, but the splitter will soon be getting a good workout as I have many many trees down on this little farm.

I have enjoyed reading the posts here on log splitters and even the beefs about log splitters, these forums are always interesting and informative.
In regard to the disagreements about the attributes of various splitters, in my humble opinion if someone likes his splitter and it is doing the job, that is great.

Many years ago when my son was young, my dad bought a new pickup truck and I also had a relatively new pickup. One day we all were riding in my dad's truck and I asked my son who's pickup he liked the best. It was a horrible question to ask the little guy as he did not want to hurt anyone's feelings. He thought for a minute and said, "I like both of you guys pickup trucks". That is the way it is with splitters.

 

[eric_271]

I,too, will take horizontal. Anythign too big to pick up gets either busted with wedges or sawed to size in the field. All my splitting is at home. It makes my back ach just thinking of trying to maneuver big rounds into position at ground level. Another drawback IMO is having to clear out every split as it is done with a vertical. On horizontal just keep splitting until the pile gets too high.

Harry K

To each their own but busting wood with a wedge is work in its self. I have a bad rotator in my shoulder and it dont help to swing a hammer. I'm on one knee with the beam up so I dont feel any back pain, not like working a horizontal that was built so short you have to bend just to work your wood, that hurts. I built mine tall enough in horizontal thats not a problem. Did you ever get yours raised? If I remember right you had plans to do the same. I dont see clearing each round as a draw back being it is thrown on the wheat truck and hauled to where it goes. That saves a second time of bending over to pick up split wood to load and my split wood falls on my table's so no bending over to pick it up any way. I used to throw it on the ground but it piles up way to fast and gets in the way.

 

[turnkey4099]

To each their own but busting wood with a wedge is work in its self. I have a bad rotator in my shoulder and it dont help to swing a hammer. I'm on one knee with the beam up so I dont feel any back pain, not like working a horizontal that was built so short you have to bend just to work your wood, that hurts. I built mine tall enough in horizontal thats not a problem. Did you ever get yours raised? If I remember right you had plans to do the same. I dont see clearing each round as a draw back being it is thrown on the wheat truck and hauled to where it goes. That saves a second time of bending over to pick up split wood to load and my split wood falls on my table's so no bending over to pick it up any way. I used to throw it on the ground but it piles up way to fast and gets in the way.

Yep, raised it 9" (should have gone about 10"). Works great, no back aches from bending over it anymore. Did put a 'redneck' in/out feed tables on it. Just a couple brackets with a 1x4 bolted to it both sides. Just right to keep the off side chunk from falling on the ground if it still needs resplitting.

Wedge/sledge (or saw), in my case is mandatory as I haul it all home for splitting. Has to be busted down to a size I can lift in the field anyhow. Even then, I only use the splitter for the hard stuff (knots/crotches/twists). Still working on the maul and wedge/sledge for the excercise. Just finished up my last small load today leaving 6 chunks to run through the splitter.

I am beginning to look at getting a new commercial splitter though. Mine seems to be losing 'push' power. Don't know if it is subjective but I seem to be getting more and more 'stuck' rounds. It was not such-a-much for power anyhow and slow.

Harry K

 

[walexa07]

Well, it came in today........my new split-fire 3265.

I originally ordered a 3255 with log lift. Emailed Matt afterwards and upgraded to the 6.5 honda, 3" taller wedge, and added suspension.

Central Transport freight company is who transported it from Canada to a local hub here where I live.......they did a really good job. I feared someone would put a forklift fork through the engine or something, but it only suffered some very minor rubbing in a couple places.

All I have to do now is unload it from my truck bed, and bolt on the log lift. Going to leave work for lunch a little early and take it to my house to run a couple rounds through it. I figure I will back the truck into a ditch, cut the straps, fuel it up, bolt up the log lift, raise the log lift, and use my atv to pull it out of the bed. It's always real exciting getting something new after waiting a couple weeks for it. I will take some photos, maybe a video if I can figure out how on my camera. I will post the photos here.

Waylan

 

[boostnut]

make sure you check the hydraulic fluid level before you fire it up.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I like the looks of the Huskee 35t machine for it's stoutness, but would want the 4 1/2" cylinder of their 27 ton model instead of the 5". They spec out 5.5hp and 11 gpm on the 27, 12.5hp and 16gpm on the 35. I'd really like to put a 20-24ish pump on it but from what I've read, that would take a 15-18hp engine.

Anyone know the formula for figuring the cycle time with the smaller cylinder on the bigger pump and engine?

I started looking for an older, maybe broken splitter last year for a project for the big engine/pump on a mid-sized cylinder but lost interest when I didn't find a donor carcass. I don't weld, so it would have to be a serviceable base that I could just bolt the engine and pump to.

Ian

 

[walexa07]

Alright guys, I've got 30 minutes experience using the split-fire. My first experience and first impressions:

Once I got it out of the truck (backed into a ditch), I connected the log lift (ships with it disconnected from the unit), checked the engine oil........saw there was hydraulic oil in it through the site window at the top of the tank, filled it with gas, and 1 easy pull later and that quiet honda was singing. It's a 6.5, but easier to start than other hondas I have or have had in the past. Looks like they really have a nice decompression on that engine or else on the newer engines. I have a 5.5 that is harder to pull, but they most always start on the first pull.

Pulled it with my atv to some 24" rounds I have in my yard and went to splitting. It was pin oak, rather easy to split, but this had several knots/limbs; the splitter went right through. The wedge is really sharp and if it can't split it, it just cuts right through. The log lift is excellent, although it would be nice to have an extra person pulling back the large pieces onto the lift as it is split. I didn't find it to be much of a chore at all to move the split pieces to be split again. Engine is quiet enough to not need any ear protection, but I will check its ratings to verify if I need to anyway.

For those large rounds, I would set the wedge to where about 1/3 of the round would come to the side I was standing, and the other 1/3 would fall back onto the log lift. Once, the piece falling back onto the log lift fell and hit the ground. I just rolled it back on there and lifted it right back up. Although I know it should have less power when retracting the ram, I could tell no difference. The wear plates are pretty thick.........I'd say at least 1/8" thick......should last years. The whole unit is real beefy, tongue weight per Matt from split-fire is about 90 pounds with log lift and ram retracted. I'd say he is spot on. Now that I have hooked it to my atv a couple times, I see why there is no handle on the tongue..........log cradle wings are the perfect height for maneuvering the hitch into position and do not require you to bend over as much as a handle on the hitch itself.

Everything on the machine is simple and appears to be well thought out. It appears that it will be a joy to use for years and years to come.

Waylan

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

.saw there was hydraulic oil in it through the site window at the top of the tank

Now that is a very nice feature!


It all sounds good!