Stihl 3/8 pico vs pico mini chain for an MS170 saw
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7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
How high are your rakers? Not sure it has a lot to do with the different chains. Just another perspective to look at.
As has been said I wouldn't think a second about 16 inch on a 170. I would start thinking about a bigger saw. If you don't need it regularly you can begin with a Dolmar 420/421. But to be honest you won't pick up either of your other saws again.
7
I think it has been on here that Stihl has changed their number and letter system over time.
If you would have followed my advice all the way and bought two new chains the most current specs are on a paper insert inside the package. I don't see the details you seek on the container I have in front of me. there is a, b, c, d, e to tune it up right. a is 30 degrees for all the picco except ripping.They have refused to sell me ripping picco or told me it isn't available just modify the chisel super one. You didn't ask about the b, and c values but they are the same for all the semi chisel, mirco chisel which is what you are dealing with. D is .025 the rakers but I really don't mess with that, maybe way at the end of the lifespan of the chain and it is used up shortly after that. E is the file diameter 5/32. The tricky thing is to keep something like one fifth of the file above the top plate or the dimension b gets wrong and inconsistent.
I have broken off teeth mostly on the Oregon .043 one with the bumper tie straps but don't seem to have bent any. Only once something didn't go as planned and I ruined about half a foot of chain which was immediately obvious.
Fran
Speaking of "stihl-speak" can we eschew that sort of surplusage? (from Sam Clemens)
Who benefits from that? Besides Waiblingen?
"Picco" "micro", what ghetto we talking?
How 'bout appending LP or NK to the pitch & gauge as applicable, and speak to all of us? Unless, of course, you insist on cutesy.
Yeah, keep it sharp, with .025" on the depth gauges. (These chains, unlike scratcher chains, do not have rakers. Long gone since chipper chain.)
Who benefits from that? Besides Waiblingen?
"Picco" "micro", what ghetto we talking?
How 'bout appending LP or NK to the pitch & gauge as applicable, and speak to all of us? Unless, of course, you insist on cutesy.
Yeah, keep it sharp, with .025" on the depth gauges. (These chains, unlike scratcher chains, do not have rakers. Long gone since chipper chain.)
Fish
Tree Freak
I just bought the Stihl Chainsaw head to fit on my trimmer, I will put the Oregon chain/bar on it, the 91vxl, and not look back, as I will not have to keep replacing chains that have bent or broken cutters.......
It is just me, I guess, I hate wasting money, and will not give anyone bogus advice....
Just me....
It is just me, I guess, I hate wasting money, and will not give anyone bogus advice....
Just me....
You seem to be right the manual calls them depth gauges. The manual also converts 0.065mm to twenty six thousands and the sheet they put in the chain container converts it to twenty five.
ShaneLogs
Addicted to ArboristSite
The WT215 carb is a good carb and will add some extra power to your MS170 but if you really want to crank some power out of it, do a muffler mod on it and sometimes you can find a big bore carb on EBay for sale. The big bore carbs on them don't have chokes on them so they are straight bored all the way through to the throttle body. They are real good and the gas goes through them good.
Ummm. Big bore 170? Just buy a 260.
Stihl MS 192 C-E using PMM3 only
According to Stihl, the recommended chain for the MS 170/171/181/192 is only the PMM3 (Picco Micro Mini 3), nothing larger at all.
For the 44 link chain that fits on a 30 cm bar, it's the #3610 000 0044. The chain pitch here is 3/8"P and the gauge is 43 mil (1.1 mm).
Having used our MS 192 C-E for two years now, we're on the chain number three, and we are only considering running the PMM3 chain. We simply just would had bought the very wrong saw, if considering moving up to the larger PM3, PS or PS3 cahin types for these smaller saws. We had a need for a small, light and agile saw, and that original requirement hasn't changed a bit at all.
It's essential to keep these small chains very sharp, so frequent sharpening is definitely a must. Your sharpening skills comes with the necessary practise! You'll notice how fast the metal vanishes though, due to all the needed sharpening, and in the end of the chains life, the teeth are so short, they easily break off, if you aren't careful with maneuvering the saw during the cutting.
And yes, the rakers measure is 0.65mm for the PMM3, I suppose the previous 0.45mm is an obsolete figure for an older chain type.
View attachment 300818
According to Stihl, the recommended chain for the MS 170/171/181/192 is only the PMM3 (Picco Micro Mini 3), nothing larger at all.
For the 44 link chain that fits on a 30 cm bar, it's the #3610 000 0044. The chain pitch here is 3/8"P and the gauge is 43 mil (1.1 mm).
Having used our MS 192 C-E for two years now, we're on the chain number three, and we are only considering running the PMM3 chain. We simply just would had bought the very wrong saw, if considering moving up to the larger PM3, PS or PS3 cahin types for these smaller saws. We had a need for a small, light and agile saw, and that original requirement hasn't changed a bit at all.
It's essential to keep these small chains very sharp, so frequent sharpening is definitely a must. Your sharpening skills comes with the necessary practise! You'll notice how fast the metal vanishes though, due to all the needed sharpening, and in the end of the chains life, the teeth are so short, they easily break off, if you aren't careful with maneuvering the saw during the cutting.
And yes, the rakers measure is 0.65mm for the PMM3, I suppose the previous 0.45mm is an obsolete figure for an older chain type.
View attachment 300818
But why is that? Could that be the nose of the bar is smaller in diameter on the 0.043, the chain cuts smoother hence safer? I will give Stihl credit on the picco bars in the 0.050 they get green rating with more teeth on the nose than brand x.
It also logically to me mean more chain sales and bar sales later on.
Probably it is more that the 0.050 is a more robust chain and capable of more power hence what is used on the more powerful saws probably heavier playing into the safety and nose diameter above. Does any brand x even put the .043 chain on a top or rear handle saw?
Your attachment is suspect as to the only recommended chain for those models as the manual for the 251 clearly show a choice of 0.050 picco (four kinds, micro, duro, super, rip) and .063 gauge 0.325 which I don't know off hand the various choices of that.
Fran
tquinn
ArboristSite Lurker
On the specifications page in my owners manual for the MS 170, 180, it describes engine displacement and other engine specs for those two saws, and all other specs for them including weights for both saws. In the guide bar and Oilmatic chains sections, it lists both "Picco Micro Mini with 0.04 inch groove width, and Pico Micro with 0.05 in groove width.
Terry
http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...s/ms-170-180-chain-saw-instruction-manual.pdf
If you look again it says recomended cutting attachment and it is 0.043 for the 170 and 0.050 for the 180. page 50 and 51 (not pdf page)
Here is the manual for the 250 among others.
http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/...-210-230-250-chain-saw-instruction-manual.pdf
You see under cutting attachment it lists two choices for the 250. Page 60.
Stihl really marches to a different drummer so to speak with their business model in my opinion.
tquinn
ArboristSite Lurker
In the manual that came with my MS170 saw (purchased May 2010) is shows both bar/chain combinations available for both saws.
Click this image to blow it up: View attachment 300929
It sort of makes sense to have the smaller chain on the smaller displacement saw. Not knowing which owner's manual is newer, either Stihl started out more conservatively for the MS170, and opened it up to the Picco .050 later, or vice versa.
And here is another link on this site with more debate about .043 vs .050 picco. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/57502.htm
One other thing I noticed is that in my manual, they say nothing about a 16 inch bar, but they are shipping Stihl MS170s to the local Big R store with 16 inch .043 inch gage bars on them. One old Stihl Bar and Chain info sheet that came from a new chain box shows an MS170 being able to handle a 12 or 14 inch bar with picco .050 inch chain, or a 12, 14, or 16 inch bar with the .043 picco mini.
If nothing else, Stihl varies all over the place with their specifications, depending on which Stihl document you pick up.
I'll let you know what my results are after I run the MS170 with both .043 and .050 chain/bar combinations at 14 inch length. From that I'll decide what to do if I want to go to the 16 inch bar.
Terry
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casual cutter
ArboristSite Operative
Not sure if it's area specific, but MS170's have left the dealer with 16" .050 Picco chains and bars installed. I bought mine new about two years ago with that combo installed, and the Stihl sticker on the chain brake/hand guard does include this bar/chain combo for the saw...
tquinn
ArboristSite Lurker
Dear Casual,
That is the direction I'm leaning. Have you had any good or bad experiences with that combination?
From reading comments on this site, there seem to be varying opinions about .043 vs .050 Picco, especially on an MS170 and with a 16 in bar. Some people prefer the 0.050 chain and bar for its ruggedness, and I've already experienced issues along that line with my .043 equipped MS170, that I never experienced with my .050 equipped Stihl 009. Others suggest that an MS170 will be overworked with a 16 in bar and .050 chain.
Your firsthand experience with a .050 Picco and 16 inch bar on an MS170 would be very valuable.
Thank you in advance,
Terry
casual cutter
ArboristSite Operative
Terry, for me the combination works fine. It is, after all, mainly a limbing saw. A couple of inches more reach with a sturdy Made in Germany Rollomatic E suits my needs. Not to mention more chain options in .050 Picco...
Of course, I will probably never bury this bar fully into timber, but I probably wouldn't bury even a 14" bar with this saw... It's just not what they're meant to do. For serious logging, the MS 170 just isn't what the doctor ordered.
Get the 16" Rollomatic E .050. It's durable, has less of the "anti-kickback" radius of the front sprocket (read: larger bar sprocket), and with a good chain will make for a good, long lasting cutter.
Keep in mind that I'm not all about the quick cuts... As a casual cutter, sometimes I just like to stop and smell the fumes:msp_biggrin:
Of course, I will probably never bury this bar fully into timber, but I probably wouldn't bury even a 14" bar with this saw... It's just not what they're meant to do. For serious logging, the MS 170 just isn't what the doctor ordered.
Get the 16" Rollomatic E .050. It's durable, has less of the "anti-kickback" radius of the front sprocket (read: larger bar sprocket), and with a good chain will make for a good, long lasting cutter.
Keep in mind that I'm not all about the quick cuts... As a casual cutter, sometimes I just like to stop and smell the fumes:msp_biggrin:
tquinn
ArboristSite Lurker
Dear Casual,
Thanks for the information. That sounds like just what I need.
Terry
Fish
Tree Freak
One of my customers I even equipped the saw with a 14" .050 hardnose bar, and he absolutely loves it.
Yes, a year or two ago Stihl started selling the saws with a 16" .043 ga. setup, to stand up next to the little Huskies.
Yes, a year or two ago Stihl started selling the saws with a 16" .043 ga. setup, to stand up next to the little Huskies.
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