The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!

[twochains]

Back leaning sweepers on slopes with body mass lean opposite of top lean. I failed (2) out of 25 today. The ones I failed on, I should have just put up the hill...they were too far gone from the get go but I tried on them anyway.

I'm not really having fits, I just was just swinging so many trees today that I was throwing all different techniques. I found out a few things and figured I would ask you guys. I found that I can swing a tree nearly 100% when I back my face in and do my back cut normally. I can do it from either side but a few combinations seemed to work alot better than others.

 

[treeslayer2003]

bear in mind Jon, I am on pretty flat ground and small stuff gets the cutter. I really just fall the big gravy lol.
I really think small trees harder to swing. also I rarely try the seemingly impossible, we loggin not doin tree work.

 

[northmanlogging]

humboldt, kerf dutch and a siswheel, seems to give me the best results, don't pay any attention to what side of the tree I'm on...

For the most part trees grow pretty straight around here, wedging and hold wood manipulation seem to do the trick on most of em. I only break out the fun stuff when I get a funky pistol butt or a hard leaner I'm trying to force into the lay. Some times I will go overboard on some of the danger tree removal stuff, like a double tramp style sis with a soft/hard dutch. The double tramp is an extra plunge in the hold wood to help it flex a little more... (Tramp busheler mentioned trying it awhile ago on a cotton wood... hence the name). I will say it works sweet on cotton woods...

 

[northmanlogging]

fail rate... define failure... they all got on the ground I haven't killed/maimed anyone, and no permanent property damage... yet... busted a few tops, smacked a house and scrubbed the moss off some power poles, but nothing that needed large amounts of explaining to small angry men in uniforms...

 

[treeslayer2003]

Back leaning sweepers on slopes with body mass lean opposite of top lean. I failed (2) out of 25 today. The ones I failed on, I should have just put up the hill...they were too far gone from the get go but I tried on them anyway.

I'm not really having fits, I just was just swinging so many trees today that I was throwing all different techniques. I found out a few things and figured I would ask you guys. I found that I can swing a tree nearly 100% when I back my face in and do my back cut normally. I can do it from either side but a few combinations seemed to work alot better than others.

man it really goes hard when you'r trying to swing every tree in a set. I really try to set up so as not to try and swing directly opposite the lean. I know sometimes ya just have no choice. I think that body mass usualy does more than top lean, altho there is exeptions.
what do ya mean back the face in? back bar it in? I think I would prolly rather back bar the back cut, but it depends. I do a lot less back barring in general since getting the 3/4 wrap....tho the stumps will be a few inches higher.

 

[treeslayer2003]

JMO, and i'm sure some one will disagree but, I think it depends greatly on what your cutting. if your in oak i'd say your more limited as to how much you can swing one as opposed to pine that will give a whole lot more.
that said, the best advice I can give ya on swing trouble is wedges and a heavy driver.

 

[twochains]

fail rate... define failure... they all got on the ground I haven't killed/maimed anyone, and no permanent property damage... yet... bust a few tops, smacked a house and scrubbed the moss off some power poles, but nothing that needed large amounts of explaining to small angry men in uniforms...

I mean fail as in not work right...tear sideways off the hinge due to heavy sweeping wide limbed tops...fail to swing due to the hard back lean...and I am talking even using a 10" wedge.

 

[treeslayer2003]

2-3 wedges bro lol. but no on the heavy leaner oak, there ain't a lot ya can do least ya bust um trying. short heavy topped leaning oak......just not gonna swing it much.

 

[twochains]

man it really goes hard when you'r trying to swing every tree in a set. I really try to set up so as not to try and swing directly opposite the lean. I know sometimes ya just have no choice. I think that body mass usualy does more than top lean, altho there is exeptions.
what do ya mean back the face in? back bar it in? I think I would prolly rather back bar the back cut, but it depends. I do a lot less back barring in general since getting the 3/4 wrap....tho the stumps will be a few inches higher.

The wind sweep leans are overriding the body mass lean due to the updrafts coming up the hollars. Yeh, back barring the face, I was just using that as a referemnce to what side of the tree I was cutting from. I switch it up all day long...I am as comfortable on one side of the tree as the other but found that I can pull them around to me better than away from me.

 

[twochains]

2-3 wedges bro lol. but no on the heavy leaner oak, there ain't a lot ya can do least ya bust um trying. short heavy topped leaning oak......just not gonna swing it much.

These are tall pine, mostly 20" stuff .

 

[treeslayer2003]

yea, to me is better than away, I see what ya mean.
pine....open face leave a hinge and one 10" wedge outta put her where ya want......hard to not cut the hinge on small stuff. if ya don't over kerf you'll get a lot more steer.

 

[northmanlogging]

Don't loose many, but I cut mostly W. Hemlock and its pretty stringy stuff. That doesn't mean I don't miss, Think I lost 2-3 over the summer, the rest went mostly where I wanted them...

Seems that top barring the back cut would be counter productive, I like to be able to really dog in and get at it when swinging or steering trees, back barring uses to much energy just pushing the damn thing through the wood to really get aggressive on one side or the other. On some of the better youtube vids of timber fallers you can see em watching the top and either cutting the off side or on side to "steer" the tree down, being able to cut one side completely off in a hurry is a big help for when you realize you just screwed the pooch and need to do everything possible to correct the situation

 

[treeslayer2003]

ha! finally i'm not a creepy lurker lol.

 

[treeslayer2003]

if i'm back barring i'm dogged in. I don't think it works good on trees bigger than the bar tho. jmo.

 

[twochains]

Don't loose many, but I cut mostly W. Hemlock and its pretty stringy stuff. That doesn't mean I don't miss, Think I lost 2-3 over the summer, the rest went mostly where I wanted them...

Seems that top barring the back cut would be counter productive, I like to be able to really dog in and get at it when swinging or steering trees, back barring uses to much energy just pushing the damn thing through the wood to really get aggressive on one side or the other. On some of the better youtube vids of timber fallers you can see em watching the top and either cutting the off side or on side to "steer" the tree down, being able to cut one side completely off in a hurry is a big help for when you realize you just screwed the pooch and need to do everything possible to correct the situation

When I say "lost" I am meaning "missed"....not busted or anything like that...

 

[twochains]

if i'm back barring i'm dogged in. I don't think it works good on trees bigger than the bar tho. jmo.

I hold out some.

Well, thanks for chipping in fellas! Good info! Thanks!

 

[redprospector]

Do any of you guys feel that you can swing a tree better from a particular side of the tree? Also, in all honesty...what is your percentage of fails vs. success? And thirdly what face do you like to swing from..sizwheel, kerf dutchman, over under, or manipulate the hinge on a normal face?

I would greatly appreciate any responses. Thanks in advance.

All of the above on occasion, and don't forget sticking a chunk in the face to get the swing started good.

Andy

 

[Gologit]

Do any of you guys feel that you can swing a tree better from a particular side of the tree? Also, in all honesty...what is your percentage of fails vs. success? And thirdly what face do you like to swing from..sizwheel, kerf dutchman, over under, or manipulate the hinge on a normal face?

I would greatly appreciate any responses. Thanks in advance.

I'll try to answer some of your questions but like Mike said, it really depends on the tree. Bear in mind also that the type of tree I usually cut is different from yours.

I'm not much on fancy cuts. I use a humboldt face almost exclusively but I'll vary the bottom with a straight snipe or an angled one if need be. A lot of what I cut has most of it's weight down low and you can't depend on top weight to swing the tree. You have to get that torque into the bottom as soon as the tree commits or all the fancy cuts in the world won't help you.

I've used the sizwheel and the soft dutchman but mostly out of curiosity and they didn't really work out that well for me. More practice with them might be the answer to that. I'll bore leaners if I have to but I prefer the CoosBay.

I've had good luck with sticking a busted off piece of the face into the undercut and using a tapered hinge at the same time.. And wedges...I'm a big fan of wedges and I'll stack them if I have to. On the really big wood I'll use a set of jacks or maybe just a single depending on the situation. Plus wedges.

Failure rate? Define failure. If a tree goes a little out of lead occasionally it's not the end of the world. Most of our skidders are grapple so a crooked lead here and there doesn't make a lot of difference. If we're working short ground a good lead is more imperative but on long ground or gentle ground it's not as critical. I try to keep everything laid out neatly when I can but if things go bad I don't lose any sleep over it. By the same token, if a faller can't keep a lead, ever, he probably won't be around long.
Failure to me means busting up a tree. Other than hitting the bosses pickup it's the worst kind of damage you can do. When you're following a Timbco and cutting the stuff it won't handle you can get into some really big and really valuable timber. Same thing on a yarder or a helicopter sale although a pure lead isn't as critical on those. If you splatter some little 24" or even a 30" you'll get grumbled at but it happens, and the bullbuck knows it happens...so no big deal if it doesn't happen too often. But if you toothpick a 48" or a 60" pine or cedar or doug or, God forbid, a Redwood you'd best have some kind of explanation ready that makes sense. You don't get away with many of those without getting an early trip to town.

Maybe what I'm trying to say here is to use what works the best for you. And if you lose one now and then, big deal. It happens. It even happens to us old guys with gray hair and wrinkles.

 

[HuskStihl]

See? This is much more interesting than glo plugs and kerosene. Great posts guys. So Andy, Bob and I like stuffing things in our faces. For me tonight it was pizza. Most of a whole pizza. I'm done cutting down trees for the winter, and I'm trying to mount a book holder to my goofy all-in-one helmet so i can read D. Dent while I cut. He was somewhat big on stuffing something (rock in the book, but WTF?!) in the face to break the weak side of the hinge to get it turning quickly. I learned that if you stuff something in when it trying to turn a back leaner, you could have lot of wedge pounding in u'r future. I had a question somewhere, but I'm prolly just gonna go to bet and quit geeking out about turning trees

 

[Metals406]

I was taught to not cut under the lean (although you do sometimes anyway). . . But, I don't cut under the lean for a swing. . . Ever. You're cutting off all the lean side to get the momentum started, & quickly cutting the steer side (near side) to finish it.

I don't want to be under a tree if that hold wood isn't there, or doesn't hold -- it'll smack ya right in the top knot and you'll be seeing Jesus for dinner.

Sent from my Bic RaZor