The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!

[twochains]

All of the above on occasion, and don't forget sticking a chunk in the face to get the swing started good.

Andy

I use the chunk the corner method quite a bit near fences and big ole white oak den tree/ save trees. I'm gonna do some experimenting with today!

 

[twochains]

I'll try to answer some of your questions but like Mike said, it really depends on the tree. Bear in mind also that the type of tree I usually cut is different from yours.

I'm not much on fancy cuts. I use a humboldt face almost exclusively but I'll vary the bottom with a straight snipe or an angled one if need be. A lot of what I cut has most of it's weight down low and you can't depend on top weight to swing the tree. You have to get that torque into the bottom as soon as the tree commits or all the fancy cuts in the world won't help you.

I've used the sizwheel and the soft dutchman but mostly out of curiosity and they didn't really work out that well for me. More practice with them might be the answer to that. I'll bore leaners if I have to but I prefer the CoosBay.

I've had good luck with sticking a busted off piece of the face into the undercut and using a tapered hinge at the same time.. And wedges...I'm a big fan of wedges and I'll stack them if I have to. On the really big wood I'll use a set of jacks or maybe just a single depending on the situation. Plus wedges.

Failure rate? Define failure. If a tree goes a little out of lead occasionally it's not the end of the world. Most of our skidders are grapple so a crooked lead here and there doesn't make a lot of difference. If we're working short ground a good lead is more imperative but on long ground or gentle ground it's not as critical. I try to keep everything laid out neatly when I can but if things go bad I don't lose any sleep over it. By the same token, if a faller can't keep a lead, ever, he probably won't be around long.
Failure to me means busting up a tree. Other than hitting the bosses pickup it's the worst kind of damage you can do. When you're following a Timbco and cutting the stuff it won't handle you can get into some really big and really valuable timber. Same thing on a yarder or a helicopter sale although a pure lead isn't as critical on those. If you splatter some little 24" or even a 30" you'll get grumbled at but it happens, and the bullbuck knows it happens...so no big deal if it doesn't happen too often. But if you toothpick a 48" or a 60" pine or cedar or doug or, God forbid, a Redwood you'd best have some kind of explanation ready that makes sense. You don't get away with many of those without getting an early trip to town.

Maybe what I'm trying to say here is to use what works the best for you. And if you lose one now and then, big deal. It happens. It even happens to us old guys with gray hair and wrinkles.

Good post Bob! By failure I'm meaning missing my shot, not barber chair. I'm glad to hear more about your all's lead out there. That is really the #1 reason I posted the original question, I like to try and do a good job for the skidder op. The ones that I couldn't swing were the ones that should have just let go up hill in the first place , but I wanted my tops out of the way. It wasn't a big deal, I just took care of them accordingly.

Now I have to go back to bed ...it;ll be time to wake up her in a bit...I hate insomnia! LOL!

 

[lfnh]

HS - good rocks less chance than a face chunk of getting shot out or crushed by a heavy stem and losing control of fall. not so much on smaller stuff. Too small a face might not get the top moving fast before clsoing on that rock and fall stalls. Skybound. Ugly. Wrong ground and that butt could be coming off mean and fast. No time to be looking up something in a book, lol. Never bet on that wind either with rocks or chunks.
fwiw

Cuttin under lean, Nates got that dead right.

 

[HuskStihl]

If I wanted to use a rock in southeast Texas, I'd need to go to lowes and buy some quickcrete, make a tiny mold with some mini rebar, let it cure overnight, then stuff it into the face. The sad thing, I'd probably still be chasing my face cuts that entire time. I stuffed a chunk on a 24" sweet gum with 6' of back lean I needed to turn into a gap. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why the stupid thing wouldn't fall. Took another look at the face (I was pounding wedges) and saw the tree was stalled on the chunk, and my pounding was making a vertical split in the stump. Tickled the remaining hinge above the split with the tip from as far as my monkey arms could reach and over she went. Glad it split down and not up

 

[Gologit]

If I wanted to use a rock in southeast Texas, I'd need to go to lowes and buy some quickcrete, make a tiny mold with some mini rebar, let it cure overnight, then stuff it into the face. The sad thing, I'd probably still be chasing my face cuts that entire time. I stuffed a chunk on a 24" sweet gum with 6' of back lean I needed to turn into a gap. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why the stupid thing wouldn't fall. Took another look at the face (I was pounding wedges) and saw the tree was stalled on the chunk, and my pounding was making a vertical split in the stump. Tickled the remaining hinge above the split with the tip from as far as my monkey arms could reach and over she went. Glad it split down and not up

Little chunks, Doc, little chunks. Doesn't take much.

 

[Gologit]

Good post Bob! By failure I'm meaning missing my shot, not barber chair.

Yup, I wasn't talking about barber chair either. I know you know about that monster already. By busting up a tree I meant when they hit something solid and break into chunks. If a tree should have had two 40's and two 32's but you wind up with two 16's and a couple of 12's because you're bucking around the breaks the side rod will probably say something like..."This stuff isn't going to Diamond Match, get me some long logs next time"...and that's if he's in a good mood.

 

[northmanlogging]

yep all good stuff,

My Idea of failure is hitting something I didn't want to hit, like leave trees, stumps, buildings etc. Leave trees get hit so not a real big deal, stumps break logs so thats a big deal, an buildings put me out of business.

For the most part, I keep em in my lead, but if there off a few feet no big deal, when I loose one they tend to be more like 90 degrees or more off from the intended lay.

 

[paccity]

 

[northmanlogging]

is that a dutch dutchmen?

 

[Gologit]

View attachment 322144

Beavers? Termites?

 

[lfnh]

If I wanted to use a rock in southeast Texas, I'd need to go to lowes and buy some quickcrete, make a tiny mold with some mini rebar, let it cure overnight, then stuff it into the face. The sad thing, I'd probably still be chasing my face cuts that entire time. I stuffed a chunk on a 24" sweet gum with 6' of back lean I needed to turn into a gap. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why the stupid thing wouldn't fall. Took another look at the face (I was pounding wedges) and saw the tree was stalled on the chunk, and my pounding was making a vertical split in the stump. Tickled the remaining hinge above the split with the tip from as far as my monkey arms could reach and over she went. Glad it split down and not up

Quickcrete and mini bars, too much thrashing around. Me, just carry them around. Easier to tilt the old noggin, hop up and down a little til one falls out, and there you have it right at hand. If its a good day, the one that falls out is a ringer anyway, and the noises stop for a little while. Got a keep it simple.

 

[slowp]

is that a dutch dutchmen?

I'm thinking it might be a version of The Christmas Hatchet. I think that's the title of a tale by Pat McManus. However, the stump is kind of low so maybe it is logger kids with a Christmas hatchet.

 

[HuskStihl]

yep all good stuff,

My Idea of failure is hitting something I didn't want to hit, like leave trees, stumps, buildings etc. Leave trees get hit so not a real big deal, stumps break logs so thats a big deal, an buildings put me out of business.

For the most part, I keep em in my lead, but if there off a few feet no big deal, when I loose one they tend to be more like 90 degrees or more off from the intended lay.

I haven't had one go over backwards in a few years. The fence killers are the ones that start turning, then just fall straight down where gravity wants them. The dead ones like to do that

 

[lfnh]

View attachment 322144

If it was more slopping,

 

[paccity]

View attachment 322144

i'm thinkin he can start his back cut now.

 

[twochains]

View attachment 322144

Looks like someone hit that **** with a Hydro Ax and then beavers came along and helped themselves. Pac...ya gonna let us in on what "really" happened there??

 

[twochains]

So today I was in the same set but started working the steeper slopes...everything went just fine. I think my biggest problem is change of land lay, these wind compromised pine are much easier to put to lead the steeper the slope, than when working a semi sloping to flat piece of ground....does that make sense?

Just as Andy and Bob mentioned, I did stick a chunk in a couple corners. The reason I did it was due to swing clearance from the save timber in front of me. My reasoning is that normally if I am doing an over under swing, I initiate my swing with a conventional in the swing corner then into a Humbolt as it's final direction. Well being that I was crowded and kind of above the save timber, I wanted my swing to stay high...not drop into the face so quick and this would get me around the save trees below. So by using a block in the swing corner, I initiated the swing but stayed up in the air longer...it worked really well and went just as I was hoping.

I really appreciate everything I have picked up on here on this site! There is a World of info on here and I am lucky enough to be able to log 7 days a week and try stuff I learn on here. Hearing about how to do something or reading about it is not near the same as actually using it and perfecting techniques, or should I say modifying them, to work in your particular timber and application.

I learn everyday, I feel that the day you tell yourself that you know everything and can't improve on your cutting...you might as well quit! Open mindedness is a necessity! There should be no "one" particular way to fall timber...you can always learn from people out there beating the bush on a daily basis!

 

[paccity]

Looks like someone hit that **** with a Hydro Ax and then beavers came along and helped themselves. Pac...ya gonna let us in on what "really" happened there??

hell i don't know , just a funny i found on the net.

 

[1270d]

I'm thinking it might be a version of The Christmas Hatchet. I think that's the title of a tale by Pat McManus. However, the stump is kind of low so maybe it is logger kids with a Christmas hatchet.

Love that story! Lol. "Just quivering with a million chops". I'm off to the bookshelf.

 

[HuskStihl]

In what situation would you not want the tree to start turning right away? I guess stuff happens slower when u'r good, but when a tree starts go i don't feel as though I have a whole lotta time to make things happen, what with all the running and screaming and such....