bluestem
ArboristSite Operative
I agree with you 100% MNGuns, and no I don't think you are a super green hippy!! It only makes sense to increase the efficiencies of OWBs.
There are those that would end wood heating...
- Thread starter CrappieKeith
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RCR 3 EVER
ArboristSite Guru
Incinerators and stupid people ruin it for everyone.
Our city banned leaf burning several years ago which is great since I am highly allergic to the smoke. I ended up in emergency a few times with an asthma attack.
In the process the city allowed open burning in pits with seasoned dry wood and burning trash in a house incinerator. What a tradeoff especially the 2nd part.
The problem it seems many people do not know what a piece of dry seasoned wood is and they burn crap that is wet or green and it billows out thick smoke. It is often impossible to see our trees 60 feet away through the smoke. The fire dept may see this and force the fire to be put out but it always starts up again. The incinerators can NOT be touched or checked since it is within a house. Back to the emergency ward.
In cool weather (Spring & Fall) instead of opening the windows I HAVE to use the A/C to keep the smoke from entering house with the firepits burning. Ironically I am not bothered by a clean burning wood fire that smokes a little bit.
So bottom line I do not think our stupid city will ban our clean burning 86% efficient fireplace anytime soon. The only smoke seen is for a few minutes during startup.
Our city banned leaf burning several years ago which is great since I am highly allergic to the smoke. I ended up in emergency a few times with an asthma attack.
In the process the city allowed open burning in pits with seasoned dry wood and burning trash in a house incinerator. What a tradeoff especially the 2nd part.
The problem it seems many people do not know what a piece of dry seasoned wood is and they burn crap that is wet or green and it billows out thick smoke. It is often impossible to see our trees 60 feet away through the smoke. The fire dept may see this and force the fire to be put out but it always starts up again. The incinerators can NOT be touched or checked since it is within a house. Back to the emergency ward.
In cool weather (Spring & Fall) instead of opening the windows I HAVE to use the A/C to keep the smoke from entering house with the firepits burning. Ironically I am not bothered by a clean burning wood fire that smokes a little bit.
So bottom line I do not think our stupid city will ban our clean burning 86% efficient fireplace anytime soon. The only smoke seen is for a few minutes during startup.
I also sent an Email to that website. I was polite (fairly) and gave good reasons and arguments for why their position is extremist, and why burning wood was (potentially) the greenest and best heat source available.
Don't just sit there and whine, get in the fight.
.
Don't just sit there and whine, get in the fight.
.
WidowMaker
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've owned mine for about five years and all I burned was green wood. This is the first year that I am burning seasoned, dry wood. I will never burn green wood again. it could be my imagination but I don't think I ever have to worry about the flame catching. i also am burning less wood. Really!
If they gave me a credit to buy one of those gasification systems then I would probably look into getting one. Until they do that it it is still costly for me. Let me point out that I heat over 4000 sqf in the winter. This thing has paid for itself two fold!
Oh yeah...I love turning my stat up to 75 degress and not have to worry about a propane bill!
If they gave me a credit to buy one of those gasification systems then I would probably look into getting one. Until they do that it it is still costly for me. Let me point out that I heat over 4000 sqf in the winter. This thing has paid for itself two fold!
Oh yeah...I love turning my stat up to 75 degress and not have to worry about a propane bill!
forcedintoit
ArboristSite Operative
Well look at it this way, they are getting exactly what they want. they go all you guys arguing amongst yourself. You all need to stand up for your rights. if they ban OWB's then the next step is the indoor wood stove. (they still smoke). It is no different than what they try to do with guns, ban the assault weapons, then when when you look at the law your assault weapon includes your favorite bird hunting shotgun or deer rifle. It is all a bunch of government control BS. And i am one that don't fall for it! I agree if you are going to burn try to get the wood seasoned as possible and keep smoke down! Also if you live "close to your neighbor stack your stove above the roof or as high as you can to help your neighbor out! "We need to quit arguing with each other and put that energy towards the Tree huggers / whiners"
Kingsley
ArboristSite Guru
:agree2:
You need to realize that this whole issue has very little to do with smoke...
It's mostly about power and control - it's difficult to control behavior and voting tendencies of people who are self-sufficient. Certain politicians and their leftist lapdog organizations love to champion such causes - ostensibly for the overall good of the public, but actually to keep themselves in $$ and power - freon, incandescent lightbulbs, carbon credits, prohibition, etc., etc. When scholarship changes, proving the original premise incorrect, the juggernaut usually continues along the same path - ignoring the facts...
xtm
It's mostly about power and control - it's difficult to control behavior and voting tendencies of people who are self-sufficient. Certain politicians and their leftist lapdog organizations love to champion such causes - ostensibly for the overall good of the public, but actually to keep themselves in $$ and power - freon, incandescent lightbulbs, carbon credits, prohibition, etc., etc. When scholarship changes, proving the original premise incorrect, the juggernaut usually continues along the same path - ignoring the facts...
xtm
We bought our rural home (4000sf or so) 6 years ago, with OWB being the chief means of heating. I was stupid and ignorant and had NO idea what I was getting into. Luckily I generally enjoy it so it's not a problem. My other options are propane or electric heat, but if I had to heat with those methods only, I’d go broke. The first few years I heated I cut green wood from cord lengths and happily burned away. My delivery guy told me rather casually that seasoned wood would burn more efficiently, but I still didn’t realize all of the implications of burning green wood – inefficiency, pollutants, creosote, etc. By burning green I was adding to the overall problem that OWBs portray.
This is the first year I can start to change that – I finally was able to get an overage of wood and will be able to stockpile almost another season. Yes, this season will still be a lot of green, but I’m trying to change that and hopefully by next season I’ll be ahead enough to correct the problem. Had I known all of the details about burning green I would have made steps to be a season or two ahead a long time ago. I have just started really reading on this site and understanding the implications.
She claims to be a moderate that is not against all wood burning, but her actions and newletters would tell a very different story. Most of us will agree that burning construction debris, painted/treated lumber, and trash is out of bounds, but she is an extremist by any definition. In fact it appears that she's becoming more extreme. Your wood burning apparatus is next on her agenda.
From her November 2010 newsletter:
Mission Statement
Our mission is to educate public officials, government and all citizens about wood smoke as a major form of hazardous air pollution that affects our health, use of our property, water, crops, livestock, the environment and climate change. We urge citizens everywhere to press for legislative changes to call wood smoke a public nuisance under state health codes and to ban all wood burning.
From her February 2009 newsletter:
Mission Statement:
We are dedicated to achieving environmental justice. We believe that justice is accomplished by an empowered community acting to make change. We organize and advocate to protect public health and the environment threatened by toxic pollution. We support broad efforts that create a just society which fosters a healthy and sustainable quality of life.
The mountain biking community saw a very similar groundswell from anti-MTB groups in the late 80s and most of the 90s. One in particular was entitled “Wheeled Locusts” and insisted that all mountain biking was bad; that cyclists were the scourge of the environment and a menace to other trail users. The anti-MTB groups got seats on local land use boards and lobbied politicians. Eventually the wave subsided, but cyclists were forced to defend by becoming very good at offense. We in turn got on control boards, came out for huge amounts of public volunteer hours – much of which was for trail systems that did not allow bikes at the time. We said “Nature is good, trails are good, and whatever we can do to get along with others is good”. And it worked.
This anti-OWB sentiment unfortunately has the backing of a very well-known government entity in the EPA. But it is exactly the same fight as the mountain bikers faced – extremist opposition who use twisted and fabricated information, all or nothing mentalities, holding the few bad guys up as representative of the whole, etc. And of course the truth is that almost all of their anti-agenda has some root in fact and truth, but is twisted so far away from logic that it loses any credibility.
woodbooga
cords of mystic memory
First of all Walt those "jack bags" ( whatever the F that is
Maine will repeal its state income and sales taxes before we give up the motto. And we know that's not gonna happen.
Live Free or Die. Death Is Not the Worst of Evils.
-Gen. John Stark on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Bennington.
No dilemma there. Not sure of the General's opinion of free love. Or Molly Stark for that matter. There is no mention pro or con in any surviving correspondence.
Gen. Stark also fought in the French and Indian War with Rogers Rangers. I doubt he would indulge in a snack called French fries.
As for smokey fires, folks should just burn good seasoned firewood and it's a non-issue.
im fresh out of bullets--excellent post--one that the greenies,NEVER want you to rememeber--You need to realize that this whole issue has very little to do with smoke...
It's mostly about power and control - it's difficult to control behavior and voting tendencies of people who are self-sufficient. Certain politicians and their leftist lapdog organizations love to champion such causes - ostensibly for the overall good of the public, but actually to keep themselves in $$ and power - freon, incandescent lightbulbs, carbon credits, prohibition, etc., etc. When scholarship changes, proving the original premise incorrect, the juggernaut usually continues along the same path - ignoring the facts...
xtm
logbutcher
Addicted to ArboristSite
Maine will repeal its state income and sales taxes before we give up the motto. And we know that's not gonna happen.
Live Free or Die. Death Is Not the Worst of Evils.
-Gen. John Stark on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Bennington.No dilemma there. Not sure of the General's opinion of free love. Or Molly Stark for that matter. There is no mention pro or con in any surviving correspondence.
Gen. Stark also fought in the French and Indian War with Rogers Rangers. I doubt he would indulge in a snack called French fries.
As for smokey fires, folks should just burn good seasoned firewood and it's a non-issue.
My god WB, you sure need some "french fries with that".
It is written that Gen John and Molly had problems....serious conjugal ones.
So one night while on one of his rare home leaves from battles, Molly refused to assume a desired _______.
It is written that she then said, "Live Free or Die ...you %#@&%". Meaning that he was to return to battle without satisfaction at home.
And that's the truth. It is written.
Now the tax issue: you're only partly correct. Maine IS one of the more highly taxed and poor business climate states, rated just below California, N.J., N.Y. Fact.
Butt: when we looked carefully at NET TAXATION that includes local property taxes, N.H. is only slightly behind Maine in net tax costs for property owners. Property taxation is one of the most regressive taxes. Yours in N.H. are exorbitant (sp.). Fact.
Maine has a porky bureaucracy, too many "revenue sources", a burdensome sales and lodging tax. Correct. We stihl love Paradise. Do not cross the bridge.
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the world is in the throes of a "silent crisis" that is killing 300,000 people each year.More than 300 million people are already seriously affected by the gradual warming of the earth and that number is set to double by 2030, the report from the Global Humanitarian Forum warns.
thats all i had to read to see they are complete envira-idiots and will say or makeup anything to advance their radical agenda.im just glad to have played a small role in the warming process cause lets face it ..its too dang cold on this planet and im not moving to florida .my wood furnace loaded with some finely seasoned red oak really puts out the BTU's and helps breakdown the ozone making my area become warmer so i can do my part to bring florida to me without all the tourists and high prices
thats all i had to read to see they are complete envira-idiots and will say or makeup anything to advance their radical agenda.im just glad to have played a small role in the warming process cause lets face it ..its too dang cold on this planet and im not moving to florida .my wood furnace loaded with some finely seasoned red oak really puts out the BTU's and helps breakdown the ozone making my area become warmer so i can do my part to bring florida to me without all the tourists and high prices
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G
GoRving
Guest
Another thing..Moonshine made with wood-cooked mash is alot better than that cooked with gas. Of course that's beside the point, but messing with ones heating source can trigger hostility. All I heat with is wood. I only use seasoned.
Of course that's beside the point, but messing with ones heating source can trigger hostility. All I heat with is wood. I only use seasoned.Labman
ArboristSite Guru
Can I skirt the political by saying I though the election reflected many people agreeing with me that it is time for the government to butt out of many things?
deerlakejens
ArboristSite Operative
I'm curious how some of you guys label Richard Nixon as a leftist? He created the EPA, didn't he? What am I missing in some of your comments? It's not right or left wingers who object to smoky fires, its people with common sense. Look where some of these bans have occurred, they are in both "red and blue" districts. I heat my house 99% with an older wood stove but my neighbors always ask where my wood goes because there is no smoke to speak of, aside from a few minutes at start up. I can't imagine why anyone who understood the advantages of seasoned wood burned hot would do anything else, so maybe we could drop a "brochure" listing the advantages at homes where we consistently see smoke. I am over a year ahead with my seasoned wood so I swapped an equal amount of my seasoned wood with a neighbor's green wood just to prove the point to him. Once he realized how much wood he saved, how much lighter it was and easier to handle and that there was no smoke, he has become a convert. I think eliminating the problem takes away a lot of the ammunition of those who don't understand how "green" wood burning can be!
Phil_Marino
ArboristSite Member
Actually, by burning wood instead of fossil fuel to heat your house, you are indeed helping to slow global warming - whether or not that is part of the reason you burn wood for heat.
I don't understand why, on this forum. it's generally considered bad to do something that helps the environment ( and the other 3 billion or so people who live here).
Phil Marino
logbutcher
Addicted to ArboristSite
:agree2: Excellent post....too true.
However, never underestimate the need for too many to find "causes" (A.K.A. : "solutions in search of problems" ) that will fill their empty lives.
A neighbor of a friend here is being sued for wood burning ( burning the right way ) because she is a victim of his wood smoke. Her home is oil heated, her car a clunker ( no catalyst )that she drives to demonstations and rallies against " corporate greed" and the evils of Amerika (sic), she uses scraps of plywood to "mow" since gas lawnmowers kill, and she flushes her toilet and has hot water like most, but........etc..... Beware , you bad bad wood killers out there.
