Tough take down, need the pros opinions here..

[avalancher]

I started to add this question to an old post, but realized this morning I was not going to get the attention of you pros out there with it, so here is my dilema.
I have a tree to remove for a guy, pictured below. I have removed everything to the left of the tree, but everything on the right is still needed to be taken down.
The tree is a white oak, and from the bottom of the stem to the top of the break is about ten feet, to tall to reach from the ground. I started yesterday to work back from the top, but every limb is full of tension and some literally exploded in my face. I cant get to the main limb, the canopy is spread out and I am certain that if any more gets removed the thing will roll and the house is right behind the canopy, about 15 feet from the farthest limb.
How do I go about getting this thing to the ground? Cant reach the break from the ground, the canopy has too much tension(got my helmet knocked off twice yesterday) and I cant take a chance on it rolling back to the house.
I doubt that my truck and trailer is going to weigh enough to stop it if it rolls if I chain it to the truck.
Any ideas? I have never had this problem plus being so close to a house.

 

[Dadatwins]

It is already on the ground, how is it going to roll over? Start at the brush end and work toward the trunk, undercutting as you go. Tension wood will spring so be careful. The side by the mailbox will drop to the ground as you get the brush off. The other side will probably hang up. Once it is hanging free notch the trunk and pull the whole thing over. Nice load of firewood.

 

[tomtrees58]

small cuts are you a tree guy or a weekend warrior tom treesoke:

 

[mga]

i'm not a "pro" but the last two posts were right....start at the brush ends.

at least, that's how i'd do it.

 

[avalancher]

It is already on the ground, how is it going to roll over? Start at the brush end and work toward the trunk, undercutting as you go. Tension wood will spring so be careful. The side by the mailbox will drop to the ground as you get the brush off. The other side will probably hang up. Once it is hanging free notch the trunk and pull the whole thing over. Nice load of firewood.

I would only worry about a roll over if the butt end of the main stem was cut first as was suggested on a previous thread where I mentioned my dilema. I guess I wasnt real clear. Sorry.
On the brush end, the majority of the big branches are not on the ground, and even cutting my way up to the main stem it quickly gets above where you can reach it from the ground.

 

[avalancher]

small cuts are you a tree guy or a weekend warrior tom treesoke:

Well, I dont know what I would call myself. I am not a tree guy by any means, but I do spend on the average of 3 days a week in the woods, does that still make me a weekend warrior?

 

[ms310]

Typically on something like that i would start at the limb end, and work my way towards the trunk. When i got into the big stuff i would cut partially threw the top to finish the cut with an under cut. Be carefull it doesnt look like there is much holding that tree up! At some point as you move closer to the trunk, the weight will over come the remaining attached wood and let go! Shouldnt go far or fast but, will go far and fast enough to hurt if it hits you!
Be carefull.

 

[turnkey4099]

I would only worry about a roll over if the butt end of the main stem was cut first as was suggested on a previous thread where I mentioned my dilema. I guess I wasnt real clear. Sorry.
On the brush end, the majority of the big branches are not on the ground, and even cutting my way up to the main stem it quickly gets above where you can reach it from the ground.

As other said, start at the brush end. Remove everything that would be 'behind' you that you can reach. As you do that, the remaining parts are going to be coming down a bit at a time. The idea is to let the tension out in small bites vice one big one.

I just got back from a 'wooding' trip. Working a stem that started at the trunk and went into the brush so dense I couldn't see the end. Realized that that was the first tree I have worked from the butt end in over 20 years.

Harry K

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Not a pro but done a few like it.

Start at the brush end. Try to keep the area above you clear so if it rolls it doesnt come down on you. Same goes for under you, so you don't end up twisted up in the tree with a running saw clenched in your grip

Keep the work area clear of the brush as you are cutting from the tree. Take calculated small bites out to see what direction it is going to move.

Watch out for springpoles ! Each cut on anything under tension has potential to do you damage. Just because you didn't cause it to fall you are close enough to have it taken out on you, just for being there.

The most noted recommended method is to hook onto the broken stem and pull it away from the stump before doing any cutting. I dont have anything big enough to tear it away. So I start small and work towards the big stuff.

 

[reachtreeservi]

You call that close to the house?

 

[Billy_Bob]

1st of all you don't HAVE to do anything!

If you don't know what to do, or are not comfortable doing something, you always have the option to leave it!

So "Leave It" is an option.

With that said, you also have the option to take your time. Take a week, take a month, or take however long it takes to safely remove the tree.

So take all the time necessary to do the job safely.

Then since you have so much time, you can rig all the ropes/cables necessary to hold everything in place if needed. Use cables, ropes, come alongs, cables attached to multiple vehicles, etc. You can use a truck to pull something out which is unsafe to mess with close up.

Then for working from a safe height, you can back a pickup up to the log, build a platform which is sturdy, whatever. (Be sure the falling limb/log does not hit pick-up.)

You can also build supports under the log, use jacks, whatever.

I took 3 days with a big heavy maple log a couple months back. I kept coming back with more and more heavy equipment until I had all the stuff necessary to safely cut the monster. I wound up using a 12 ton bottle jack to support it so it would not roll and squish me...

 

[superfire]

tree help

use a stair step of pallets under the butt end of the log(crush protection). then slowy work the at swampin the the top out. when alot of the brush is removed hook a cabel to the butt end of the log and pull pull it lose.

 

[Mike Van]

Since you asked for opinions, here's mine - I might be in the minority here, but I believe if you can't go out & look at a job, know what needs to be done, and be able to do it without asking 'online' - You probably shouldn't be doing it. There's more at stake here than some firewood - The property damage can always be fixed [you have insurance, right?] But it's you that might not be 'fixable' Sometimes pride can be an awful thing to swallow, but it's easier to say "I can't do this job, it's not something I can handle" Than it is for emt's to have to get your crushed up body out from under it.

 

[wdchuck]

Suggestion #1.

Can you get a towable lift in to the tree?

approach it from an elevated position, that keeps your body out of harms way.

One day rental would be cheap.

------------
Sugg. #2.

Wait until all the leaves fall off, then you can better see what the limbs are doing.

----------------

Sugg. #3.

Get professional help, so you can get past the dangerous part of it, and learn something new in the process. Education always has a cost, money is the easiest cost, injury and damage always seem to cost much more.

------------------

Work from the brush end first, and take it one limb at a time. Small bites.

 

[iowawoodcutter]

I had a tree barber chair like that once. Think it was hit by lighting. It was only a 18" oak though. I worked my way from the limbs back to the trunk. It was on a slight downhill and when I got to where I could not hold my saw level anymore, I got out my four foot ladder (only had to use the bottom two steps) and made sure I was uphill and chunked off 16" pieces till it was gone. This might not be feasible or safe depending on how big the tree is or what terrain you are in. Also, I am sure I will get nailed by the safety police and (disclaimer coming) in no way do I advocate using a ladder unless you are absolutely certain you are safe doing so..

Iowa

 

[savageactor7]

Yeah that is a tough take avalancher...

...I've cut trees like that after storms and the one thing I recommend is that you have to drop what left of the tree on the right before limbing it. Limbing it as it lays could cause it it roll over or impale you.

I would hook up a couple of cable pulleys and chains to pull some of that stored energy from down the length of the tree near the top then once secured to other standing trees make a survey which way the tree leans as we look at it, front or back, then make your hinge cut.

As we look at that tree it'll either fall to us viewers or away. Your problem is putting some kind check to all that stored energy the tree has.

Good luck

 

[Billy_Bob]

Actually now that I think about it, limbing would be quite difficult to teach over the internet! It is just so complex depending on each specific limb and situation.

I have a helper who is not good at limbing in dangerous situations. He is just learning about spring poles. Anyway he would tend to go and just start cutting limbs without studying the situation and fully understanding WHAT is going to happen when EACH limb is cut.

So if it is a dangerous tree which we just felled, he will wait for me to "study" the situation. Then I will explain to him what I am about to do and why. He will stand clear. Then I will release the energy from the tree. When it is safe, then I tell him OK, cut away.

I look at the tree from the stump toward the fallen top of the tree. This gives me an idea of which side might have more weight and might make the tree roll one way or another. What is supporting the tree from rolling on the bottom?

I start by cutting the branches going up in the air and I leave the branches going down which are supporting the trunk. I think about each branch before cutting. Just like falling a tree. Which way is it leaning? Where will it fall? Sometimes I make an openface-facecut and back cut just like felling a tree. The hinge keeps the limb attached to the tree instead of coming back and smacking me in the face! (A good thing!)

Thinking about what I do when limbing... Sometimes a tree falls on other trees. The branches from the fallen tree are bending up and holding down some of the branches of the nearby tree. If you cut one of these branches, the felled tree branch will go flying up along with the nearby tree branch. There is stored energy you are releasing when making the cut. These can fly back and smack you in the face!

Anyway with these, I carefully study EACH branch BEFORE cutting. I figure out before making any cuts where everything is going to go after cutting. I also take into consideration the total weight of all the branches on the tree and if the loss of weight will cause the entire tree to roll over or not.

Where I stand to make the cut and the cut I make depend on what is going to happen once the cut is made. Also many times in a "limb under tension" situation, I will make a series of small cuts to slowly release the energy. So a limb looks like a "U" with a lot of tension at the bottom of the U where it is bending. I make many small shallow cuts around the bottom outside of the U area, then the U slowly turns into a V. Now the tension is released and I can make a final full through cut without that limb whipping out to hit me. These are called "spring poles".

Basically I will remove the limbs going up in the air, then start limbing from the top of the tree back toward the stump. By the time I get back to the stump, there is not much energy left except for each piece I cut to fall straight down.

Anyway there is a lot to all this. Maybe you could post more pictures of the limbs going up in the air looking at this from the stump of the tree. Maybe everyone here could give their advice on cutting one limb at a time?

 

[danrclem]

Could you chain it to the tree to the left in the first picture to make sure that it doesn't fall back toward the house and then chain it to your truck also so that it doesn't go back into the house?

I'm not an expert by any means and even a professional would have to see it in person to make a decision.

 

[avalancher]

You call that close to the house?

Close enough that if it rolls downhill, its going to get the house. I figure that if the tree moves and gets a house, then I am going to call it as "CLOSE TO THE HOUSE"

lets get a few things straight here. I am not an expert. I have worked all my life in the woods where accurate drops are easy for me. I have minimal experience in dealing with wood that poses a hazard to houses etc. What I can tell you is my dilema here. The tree wants to roll downhill if it is cut loose from the stump. Any effort to remove brush lets the tree jump up just a little bit more each time, indicating to me that the hinge still has a lot of energy left in it. As more brush gets removed, it has now lifted up further than what you can reach from the ground.
I climbed up the stump, walked out along the main trunk and tied in this morning. with each cut from the smaller branches and the weight reduced on the length the tree would climb up, and the main trunk is twisting indicating it wants to roll towards the house.
This removal is for an older man that really cant afford an expert. I am doing him a favor and myself by removing the wood. You pros in the field would laugh if he offered what he could afford to pay.
What I have told him is this. I cut enough away so that he can get his car out and down the driveway. The rest is going to be removed if its safe and wont get the house. The rest is going to have to stay until he can afford to hire a pro.
I am really surprised at some of you guys. I have been on this board for a little while now and I am not a newbie. I was asking for some help on this matter, and some of your responses were uncalled for. I like to think that we have all been in circumstances where we ask for another opinion before staggering forward.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Not being there to see it exactly makes it harder to judge from the pictures. I'm sure they dont come close to doing this one justice. I'm in hopes that you do get it in safely, without so much as a close call. The second picture does show a house back there. It doesn't indicate the distance from the top of the tree to it's target.

if you can safely take some of the weight off the side it wants to roll towards, this might help protect the house. If the limbs you are removing are suporting weight I wouldnt touch them till later.

I gotta agree, hangers are dangerous and a lot different than working in the woods.

Is there anyway to run a cable over the top of the tree and attatch it to the far side , using the truck to roll it away from the house ? Or was this part of what you were saying that the weight there is greater than the truck would hold ? I guess you have thought about chocking the wheels of the loaded truck with some blocks to keep it from rolling ?

I got to wondering about a nylon 'jerk strap' for pulling it away from the stump. As a kid I kept 40' in the PU for when my buddies would call to get pulled out of the sand, mud, frozen pond whatever. You can hit the end a lot harder with one than with a chain. DONT USE CHAIN, CABLE or HOOKS to attatch it to the tree. Think of a 400 MPH slingshot with a #5 load of steel headed for the back window or house if the chain/cable snaps. Once you get it moving keep going a little ways to get it clear of the house.

Look your situation over carefully before using any suggestions I give. None of us are there to advise you directly and dont fully know the situation.