Traditional climbing system : 1st Time on one

[MISteve]

Rookie climber, need advice. I have been climbing with spikes and flipline for about 6 months. Been in about 10 trees doing removals. Pretty frustrated with movement in the tree with flipline and lanyard. Going up, not too bad. Going down is a lot harder than I had expected it to be. I have been practicing what Jepson's book calls a traditional climbing system. Been using it in my back yard at about 10 feet, practicing for about a week. Today I topped a beach tree. I was using my flipline and a new lanyard I built. It is about 18' long, gives me more capability in the tree. I leave it in a crotch and it is backup as I spike back down the tree. When I got to the end and I went to bring the lanyard down to reset it, dang thing got hung up in the crotch. Could not free it. Did not want to go back up. No better time to try the new system, so I pulled up my rope and tied the rig. Hung on it for a bit to make sure it was set, than released the flip line. Had to really think about that for a bit. Anyway, I am about 35' up at this time, but I lowered myself down in about a minute. Much easier than spikes coming down.
Please look at the pics and tell me if this is ok or can be better. Does the length of the bridge matter?

traditional climbing rig :: 100_0542.jpg picture by sgilbert9226 - Photobucket

traditional climbing rig :: 100_0541.jpg picture by sgilbert9226 - Photobucket

traditional climbing rig :: 100_0540.jpg picture by sgilbert9226 - Photobucket

 

[tree md]

Knots look OK. I like to have about a 6" bridge on a traditional rig to keep my knot close at hand.

 

[MISteve]

Knots look OK. I like to have about a 6" bridge on a traditional rig to keep my knot close at hand.

I will keep it shorter. Is there an easier system for a new climber? This one seems pretty simple. Got to do a large white pine tomorrow. Maybe 80' tall. Plan on clearing all the lower branches as I go up, than taking the top 15' to 20'. I cannot lay her down, space is limited. Going to chunk it as I come down. This will be new for me. How long to cut the pieces? Will leaving any of the branch stubs on help me or just flush cut everything on the way up? I did a smaller pine a couple of months ago and cut everything flush as I climbed, took out the top, than came down and nocked down the tree. Worked out ok. This tree I will have to get it down to about 30', than I can come down and put the trunk down

 

[Ruster22]

What is, if any, the advantage to having the bridge tied to a separate carabiner on your harness and just a simple figure 8 knot for the main line?
I was a GM for the first time last week and this was the system the the climber used, I just can't remember his reasoning.

 

[derwoodii]

I will keep it shorter. Is there an easier system for a new climber? This one seems pretty simple. Got to do a large white pine tomorrow. Maybe 80' tall. Plan on clearing all the lower branches as I go up, than taking the top 15' to 20'. I cannot lay her down, space is limited. Going to chunk it as I come down. This will be new for me. How long to cut the pieces? Will leaving any of the branch stubs on help me or just flush cut everything on the way up? I did a smaller pine a couple of months ago and cut everything flush as I climbed, took out the top, than came down and nocked down the tree. Worked out ok. This tree I will have to get it down to about 30', than I can come down and put the trunk down

Traditional oh my I am gettin old,,, this is same as my rig from 1983 and its still what i use. Dont recognized your carabiner knot i use bowline here, but tis good that i snitches up to the carabiner well.. I couldn't think of an easier new climber set up, its about as simple as can be. Keep your rope ( check it ) below your flip line as you chunk down and have a back up bloke on the ground watching your work please. Stubs,, up to you left often they help but sometimes hinder your work.

 

[Zale]

I wouldn't use a clove hitch on the carabiner. When I used that system, I tied a bowline. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Will leaving any of the branch stubs on help me or just flush cut everything on the way up?

If you've got an adjustable friction saver so you can cinch your climbing line onto the main stem, then don't leave any stubs.

If you can't cinch your climbing line to the spar, you'll need to leave some stubs to keep your climbing line from sliding down the stem.

 

[ddhlakebound]

What is, if any, the advantage to having the bridge tied to a separate carabiner on your harness and just a simple figure 8 knot for the main line?
I was a GM for the first time last week and this was the system the the climber used, I just can't remember his reasoning.

With the working and running ends of your rope on two separate biners, you don't have to untie anything to redirect or advance your tip. Just unclip, set your new tip, and re-clip.

I don't think of figure 8 knots as terminal knots. Probably fairly safe, but not the best choice.

 

[ddhlakebound]

I wouldn't use a clove hitch on the carabiner. When I used that system, I tied a bowline. Good luck and stay safe.

I agree, I wouldn't use a clove either in that usage, or a bowline either for that matter.

Termination knots should cinch down on the biner, and not be able to roll out. As I was taught, a double or triple fishermans knot, a buntline hitch, or an anchor hitch are all acceptable cinching and non rolling knots for terminating climb lines or split tails.

 

[mikegar]

every one at my yard uses a bowline with a fig 8 on the tail before the friction hitch and then an fig 8 after the hitch. as far as tail length' the shorter length keeps the knot close to you but it makes going up with the rope slow due to the inch worm like movement. the longer tail gets the knot further away from the climber but allows you to get bigger "thrusts" in and gets you up faster.

 

[MISteve]

Traditional oh my I am gettin old,,, this is same as my rig from 1983 and its still what i use. Dont recognized your carabiner knot i use bowline here, but tis good that i snitches up to the carabiner well.. I couldn't think of an easier new climber set up, its about as simple as can be. Keep your rope ( check it ) below your flip line as you chunk down and have a back up bloke on the ground watching your work please. Stubs,, up to you left often they help but sometimes hinder your work.

Does it matter how long I cut the chunks? I will leave some stubs, I feel more confident with a few of them left.

 

[MISteve]

Thanks for the input everybody. Will tell you tomorrow night how its going, not sure if I will get it all done tomorrow.

 

[tree md]

Does it matter how long I cut the chunks? I will leave some stubs, I feel more confident with a few of them left.

Stubs are a sure sign of a rookie. If you need one to get a wrap on and rig from while lowering from a natural crotch fine but after it has served it's purpose cut it off. It is a hangup waiting to happen if you are lowering. Have to climb back down to free enough snagged limbs and you will know exactly what I am talking about.

There has been much discussion on the bowline rolling and side loading on a biner so it is not a choice I would recommend, Hard to go wrong with a double fisherman's.

And whoever asked what the benefit is in using a biner on a traditional rig, it makes it pretty much an open system. Your not going to pull it through many crotches if you need to recrotch but at least you can unclip to bypass limbs and maneuver without having to untie and tie a knot all the time. A poor man's dynamic climbing system, if you will.

 

[MISteve]

Stubs are a sure sign of a rookie. If you need one to get a wrap on and rig from while lowering from a natural crotch fine but after it has served it's purpose cut it off. It is a hangup waiting to happen if you are lowering. Have to climb back down to free enough snagged limbs and you will know exactly what I am talking about.

There has been much discussion on the bowline rolling and side loading on a biner so it is not a choice I would recommend, Hard to go wrong with a double fisherman's.

And whoever asked what the benefit is in using a biner on a traditional rig, it makes it pretty much an open system. Your not going to pull it through many crotches if you need to recrotch but at least you can unclip to bypass limbs and maneuver without having to untie and tie a knot all the time. A poor man's dynamic climbing system, if you will.

Sounds like good advice, thanks.

 

[derwoodii]

Does it matter how long I cut the chunks? I will leave some stubs, I feel more confident with a few of them left.

length and weight is your call. Have you been shown how to snap cut chunks (front back cut just offset) on the trunk section to allow better control and keep both hands safe on saw till ready and and then free to use and drop in control. as well using a twig in the cut to stop log weight jams.
Tree md right, gun operators know what best for them, but you take your time work up skills and confidence.

 

[MISteve]

length and weight is your call. Have you been shown how to snap cut chunks (front back cut just offset) on the trunk section to allow better control and keep both hands safe on saw till ready and and then free to use and drop in control. as well using a twig in the cut to stop log weight jams.
Tree md right, gun operators know what best for them, but you take your time work up skills and confidence.

I have seen the snap cut in use, have not used it yet. This will be the first tree I chunk down. Was going to carry some wood shims with me. Figured I would probably drop the larger plastic wedges.

 

[derwoodii]

I have seen the snap cut in use, have not used it yet. This will be the first tree I chunk down. Was going to carry some wood shims with me. Figured I would probably drop the larger plastic wedges.

The right size twigs do it just fine and you can hold em with your teeth. Have your back up groundie take some pictures.

 

[MISteve]

The right size twigs do it just fine and you can hold em with your teeth. Have your back up groundie take some pictures.

Should I check them for bugs or do you just spit them out? Will get some pics.

 

[beastmaster]

I learn to climb with the same set up your using and kept it for about 20 years. Then I switched to a split tail and the blakes hitch and a pulley to advance my knot one handed. A split tail is close to what your using but you can easily get around branches with out having to retie your knot. The pulley will make your movements while advancing your hitch way more fluid. I use a closed system with a hitch climber three holed pulley, and the Vt. I couldn't go back.
Not much learning curve to set up a split tail with a pulley over what your using now. Get that set up and you'll never go back.

 

[MISteve]

Stubs are a sure sign of a rookie. If you need one to get a wrap on and rig from while lowering from a natural crotch fine but after it has served it's purpose cut it off. It is a hangup waiting to happen if you are lowering. Have to climb back down to free enough snagged limbs and you will know exactly what I am talking about.

There has been much discussion on the bowline rolling and side loading on a biner so it is not a choice I would recommend, Hard to go wrong with a double fisherman's.

And whoever asked what the benefit is in using a biner on a traditional rig, it makes it pretty much an open system. Your not going to pull it through many crotches if you need to recrotch but at least you can unclip to bypass limbs and maneuver without having to untie and tie a knot all the time. A poor man's dynamic climbing system, if you will.

Took down a large pine today , a good 80' White pine. Left the stubs. Topped it, then chunked it down. Man do those stubs get in the way. Check out the pics, they are not the best. Please tell me what you think. View them backwards from the truck photo.

big pine take down :: 100_0544.jpg picture by sgilbert9226 - Photobucket