What Chainsaws do you want Santa to bring you for Christmas?

[B_Turner]

MS880, second choice and the other end of the scale MS200.

I predict you have an 880 by Christmas 2008, if not sooner.

 

[Bill G]

In this area if you want 3 phase ran to your shop it is $5000/mile. You can intall a rotary converter for much less. I have a rotary unit. I am not familar with the VFD. Can you hard wire them in and run the entire shop on one or do you have to buy individual units. I would assume if teh vary the freq then they need to be used independently. With the rotary many machines can be ran at the same time although there is no speed control.

Bill

 

[Lakeside53]

In this area if you want 3 phase ran to your shop it is $5000/mile. You can intall a rotary converter for much less. I have a rotary unit. I am not familar with the VFD. Can you hard wire them in and run the entire shop on one or do you have to buy individual units. I would assume if teh vary the freq then they need to be used independently. With the rotary many machines can be ran at the same time although there is no speed control.

Bill

You've hit on a major difference in approach.

Yes, generally one VFD per motor, although it is possible to run multiples if they are matched etc... like with two motors on a conveyor.

I looked at both approaches, bought a rotary converter then never used it. The VFD is so cool and flexible (and cheaper than most motor starters) that just had to use them. Now I'm scrounging up 3 phase motors for all my stuff - I love the speed control with no belt changing.

 

[windthrown]

Yes, that is true for production where hundreds of motors are used. But those facilities must also use costly transformers to get back 110 volts. So for the average single phase homeowner guy with a drill press, lathe, or Bridgeport a vfd is a cost effective option. Plus you get lots of other neat stuff like variable speed control, reversing, dynamic braking, and soft starting. Some drives allow over speed above and beyond 60 Hertz, (as high as 400Hz) which is nice because you can change speed on the fly.

Um... get back to 110? That does not really mean anything. I am a degreed electrical engineer... used to work at the power generation co-op at SDSU in Sandy Eggo. All power is generated in 3-phase. Each 120 degree leg, as it were, is a single phase. Stepped down (or up) transmission power becomes whatever voltage you want. At the typical home owner stage, a single phase is 220V, half of which is 110. Connect a 110 line to ground, it is 110V. Connect 110 to the other half of the 110, it is 220. I used to also wire houses for a living. I used to also deal with power to a server farm as my last job in engineering... one of the largest server farms in the world, actually.

As for 3 phase, it is used becasue it is an industry standard. Your VDF device splits the 220 single phase leg into three phases (using delays) so that you can take advantage of the industrial 3 phase tools. However, that still uses a single phase supply line from the grid, and thus is far less efficient than using 3 phase electricity directly from the grid. You do not need hundreds of motors to get a cost benefit from using 3 phase electricity. In reality, you may only run one large one. I know a guy that has a shop in Palo Alto that does a lot of fancy machine work. He can mill any shape device from a block of aluminum. His shop is in his garage, and his house is on 220. But the back of his lot backs onto an industrial park, and he has a 3 phase line running form that to his garage (he is a techno geek, what can I say?). In doing so, he cuts his electric costs by about 1/2. I also tuned his circuit with some large capacitors to get rid of what are called VARS, which when the phase angles are adjusted, will use fewer watt hours of electricity.

See, I was just asking if he had access to 3-phase power, that's all. That would be amusing to me opcorn: I've also done my homework, and I have a lot of motors around here. I plan on generating my own power off of a pelton wheel or three with a good supply and head of water on one of our streams. That involves DC generation and converting to AC, and then more smoke and mirrors. I can wire my motors for 110 or 220, and I have a few 3-phase units as well. Bujt I do not have anything to build or use them for, so for now I am just going to dump the power into heating the barn and shop.

And (an Eric Cartman GODDAMMMMIT!) this thread was about CHAINSAWS for Christmas before it was hyhacked into shop tools with variable phase and frequency controled three phase power devices. Geez... I tell yah...

 

[Erick]

Yeah What He Said!!!!







(Ummmm I really have no idea what he said)

 

[Erick]

Tell Santy I want a NIB 090, a MS660,a MS361, a MS192T and a MS200 rear handle.

Then maybe some of them Dollymars a 5100 and a 7900

And while we're at it tell him to get me some of them cheap saws too (fer lonan to the friends) maybe a 346, 357, 372, and a 395 all with that XP on'em. and maybe one of them little'uns Saw Troll keeps go'n on about

Then there's the macs and the hommies.............aww heck ole Santy's gonna need a bigger sliegh.

 

[gmax]

Well if i'm not paying i might as well have the best

 

[brncreeper]

Um... get back to 110? That does not really mean anything. I am a degreed electrical engineer... used to work at the power generation co-op at SDSU in Sandy Eggo. All power is generated in 3-phase. Each 120 degree leg, as it were, is a single phase. Stepped down (or up) transmission power becomes whatever voltage you want. At the typical home owner stage, a single phase is 220V, half of which is 110. Connect a 110 line to ground, it is 110V. Connect 110 to the other half of the 110, it is 220. I used to also wire houses for a living. I used to also deal with power to a server farm as my last job in engineering... one of the largest server farms in the world, actually.

As for 3 phase, it is used becasue it is an industry standard. Your VDF device splits the 220 single phase leg into three phases (using delays) so that you can take advantage of the industrial 3 phase tools. However, that still uses a single phase supply line from the grid, and thus is far less efficient than using 3 phase electricity directly from the grid. You do not need hundreds of motors to get a cost benefit from using 3 phase electricity. In reality, you may only run one large one. I know a guy that has a shop in Palo Alto that does a lot of fancy machine work. He can mill any shape device from a block of aluminum. His shop is in his garage, and his house is on 220. But the back of his lot backs onto an industrial park, and he has a 3 phase line running form that to his garage (he is a techno geek, what can I say?). In doing so, he cuts his electric costs by about 1/2. I also tuned his circuit with some large capacitors to get rid of what are called VARS, which when the phase angles are adjusted, will use fewer watt hours of electricity.

See, I was just asking if he had access to 3-phase power, that's all. That would be amusing to me opcorn: I've also done my homework, and I have a lot of motors around here. I plan on generating my own power off of a pelton wheel or three with a good supply and head of water on one of our streams. That involves DC generation and converting to AC, and then more smoke and mirrors. I can wire my motors for 110 or 220, and I have a few 3-phase units as well. Bujt I do not have anything to build or use them for, so for now I am just going to dump the power into heating the barn and shop.

And (an Eric Cartman GODDAMMMMIT!) this thread was about CHAINSAWS for Christmas before it was hyhacked into shop tools with variable phase and frequency controled three phase power devices. Geez... I tell yah...

LOL, the average person is not lucky enough to have an industrial park behind his garage. If your friend can scab 3 phase off a business district than more power to him (no pun).
Now if I spend the money and have 3 phase run to my home how many appliances will make use of it? Aside from one motor in my garage on my drill press…nothing (well, I do have a 3 phase case tumbler too). As far as industry goes, yes change to 110. There must be control voltage of some sort to give the automated START/STOP commands to the motors. Plus most devices such as,heaters, servos, steam valves, air solenoids, and brakes need control voltage also.

 

[Lakeside53]

Your VDF device splits the 220 single phase leg into three phases (using delays) so that you can take advantage of the industrial 3 phase tools.

VDF?

hmmm... Mr. De-greedy Engineer. You didn't follow my "homework link". Detention for you for the next week. You might want to dig into how a vfd really works We're not talking static converters here. The 220 (or even 117) is converted to DC, then regenerated as a series of PWM pulses to regenerate the three phase power.

now... where are all those 3 phase chainsaws? lololol

BTW.. Three phase isn't even an option here - not in my residential area... or so Puget power tells me.

 

[brncreeper]

Well if i'm not paying i might as well have the best

(stomping feet) Me too!!!

BTW.. Three phase isn't even an option here - not in my residential area... or so Puget power tells me.

If it were and you had it wouldn't you still use VFD's anyway?

 

[windthrown]

VDF?

hmmm... Mr. De-greedy Engineer. You didn't follow my "homework link". Detention for you for the next week. You might want to dig into how a vfd really works We're not talking static converters here. The 220 (or even 117) is converted to DC, then regenerated as a series of PWM pulses to regenerate the three phase power.

now... where are all those 3 phase chainsaws? lololol

BTW.. Three phase isn't even an option here - not in my residential area... or so Puget power tells me.

Static of no, you are stihl using timing and some sort of delay in the DC to get the AC waveforms. Same with the frequency controller. Frequency is based on timing... electrical engineering is all about timing, DC or AC or power generation or microcircuits. No 3-phi here either. We have a pair of 1-phi 220 lines to supply this valley that goes through our property here.

As for industry using 3-phi and 1-phi 220/110, simple step-down transformers off one leg. No brainer. As for my friend in the Silly Valley, yah, he took advantage of an opportunity. Smart guy, was the persident of his own start-up, and did all the chassis design prototypes there in his garage shop. Mosltly milled out of solid metal blocks. Nice toys in his shop. I bet I could mill any custom chainsaw part in there.

...and speaking of CHAINSAWS

The requests to Santa are all being filtered through to the elves, who are ordering them up as we speak. The oddball custom stuff is being bid on Ebay. Dolmar 7900s seem to me at the top of the list, as well as 660s and 880s. Big toys for big boys. Me, I am still shopping for small saws here. I want to give my GF a PS-420, but they will be too late for X-mas, and they are too expensive in Germany (I checked). So I will pro'lly get her a PS-401, which is lighter anyway, and a tad more power. Hmmmm... now there is an idea for my next thread on AS!

 

[Lakeside53]

Static of no, you are stihl using timing and some sort of delay in the DC to get the AC waveforms. Same with the frequency controller. Frequency is based on timing... electrical engineering is all about timing, DC or AC or power generation or microcircuits.

You're lucky I'm not grading your papers... I might give you an E or effort...maybe... :greenchainsaw:

 

[JeffHK454]

Nice clean 166..

Why in the hell would anyone want a mill at home, ran one all day... it looses its luster.

...It depress me thinking about running one tomorrow..

 

[Lakeside53]

Nice clean 166..

Why in the hell would anyone want a mill at home, ran one all day... it looses its luster.

...It depress me thinking about running one tomorrow..

'cos it's not my day job.. if it was... I'd be on your page

 

[mking7]

Well not sure I'm gettin' a saw for xmas. My birthday's tomorrow and I bought myself this. So I'm thinking I'm getting whatever momma had bought for my bday re-wrapped in xmas paper for xmas.

http://www.arboristsite.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=839&cat=6

 

[JeffHK454]

'cos it's not my day job.. if it was... I'd be on your page

Yep...



When you get your mill up and running let me know and I'll set you up with a box of mill cutters. I bought a used machinists box and it was loaded with new&used end mills, taps , reamer...etc. do some trading.. I need some parts to help resurrect a badly beat 066!: greenchainsaw:

Jeff

 

[Lakeside53]

Yep...



When you get your mill up and running let me know and I'll set you up with a box of mill cutters. I bought a used machinists box and it was loaded with new&used end mills, taps , reamer...etc. do some trading.. I need some parts to help resurrect a badly beat 066!: greenchainsaw:

Jeff

I'm interested, as always..

 

[brncreeper]

Shars have decent prices on new stuff, very good quality too. I bought a 52 piece clamping kit for $28.50.
Wish I could find a good used Jacobs Super Chuck for my drill press. I've always got to fight the damned thing to get bits loose.

 

[J.Walker]

What Chainsaws do you want Santa to bring you for Christmas

I was hoping for a tooth bar cutting edge for my orange tractor.
All set for saws, at least till the end of this year.

 

[windthrown]

I was hoping for a tooth bar cutting edge for my orange tractor.
All set for saws, at least till the end of this year.

Tooth bars are REAL NICE. We got one 2 years ago and it makes all the difference on the Kubota. Turns the bucket into a mucking thrasher, as well as a blackberry destroyer (get then up by the roots) and does a lot of other cool stuff. Well worth the money! As good as any chainsaw...