What parts should I stock up on?

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Who leaves dull chains lying around?

Who pays good money to have sharp chains sharpened?



As far as your question is concerned: I do. You see, I've been sharpening chains for longer than both you and ZinTrees have been alive. And that is the combined time. Should you venture off into sharpening chains as a service to customers, you will discover many that are damaged, too dull, too stretched, the customer couldn't be found, your own chains no longer fit a running saw, but are good otherwise, the bar wore out but the chains are worth saving, etc, etc, etc. I have a pegboard wall filled with old chains, and most of them are not freshly sharpened. They are sorted by pitch, gauge, and style of cutter. The various lengths can be sorted out as needed.

Why would I waste my time sharpening a chain that is only saved for a possible future use?
Sometimes we only scavenge a chain for a few links, just to match a used chain up with a new but different length bar. Sometimes a customer comes in begging for a cheap chain to fit their saw that might be planned for a destructive job, and they don't wish to ruin a good chain. There are countless other reasons to keep those old chains around, and plenty of good reasons for tossing them out, too.
 
Nice. Drama over something is stupid as chain sharpening is crazy. Got to love boomers.

Hmmm... That sure sounds like you are attempting to throw scorn at the elder members of this forum. That's not like you. Why the change in attitude?

As I see this latest online spat, there seems to be two groups of contenders, here. Is it fair for you to throw blame for the drama entirely upon the "boomers", while not acknowledging the dramatic efforts of the minors?

Now if you are going to accept any responsibility for helping to create the drama, then it behooves you to not pass around insults when the drama continues.
 
Hmmm... That sure sounds like you are attempting to throw scorn at the elder members of this forum. That's not like you. Why the change in attitude?

As I see this latest online spat, there seems to be two groups of contenders, here. Is it fair for you to throw blame for the drama entirely upon the "boomers", while not acknowledging the dramatic efforts of the minors?

Now if you are going to accept any responsibility for helping to create the drama, then it behooves you to not pass around insults when the drama continues.
Just think, not all of us giving advice are boomers either. But what can you do? Kids are going to be kids. Reminds me of a sign my dad has in his shop.
"Teenagers, get a job and move out while you still think you know everything!" Some lessens need learn from experience vs wisdom of others.
 
I tell you what @Mr.Metsä you want to sharpen chains get ahold of me and we will work out a good deal. You need to get focused on something so let's start there
I'm already focused enough (remember, I have 2 full time employees and maybe a third once I buy either a Shop Saber or Langmuir full sized 4 x 8-10 plasma table and build an addition on the main shop because I'm out of room presently. Between contract machining for 2-3 tier automotive suppliers, sharpening chipper knives and anvils for all the local arborists, working on their rolling stock (not chainsaws), heavy fabrication on loader and excavator buckets, doing AWS certified welding (which I have to do myself because I hold the AWS certification and sharpening their saw chains (I like doing that actually), at 73, I'm real busy and that don't include my part time job at the local Kubota dealer, delivering new tractors and picking up used ones and fiddling in the shop as well and farming in the warm months and always loosing money with that (but it's fun as well), I need to start slowing down a bit. My ongoing cancer, I can deal with just fine actually, but at 73, it's getting time to kick back and spend some of the revenue and maybe start taking cruises with my wife to far away warm places in the winter. Problem is, I'm a 100% hands on boss and I'm (OCD) about how the shop runs and kept spotless, so I'm a prick. Don't know how my wife of 37 years stand me. She must have an iron will or a lot of ear wax and ignores me most times. All I know is I would not be successful and financially secure if it was not for her and a good accountant. I do have to take 2 days every other week to get my ongoing chemo with no end date as my cancer issue is not operable. I can keep it in remission for a price, however. Now that my Kubota dealer has taken on an Echo franchise, I'll probably will be getting into that as well. I will sharpen customer loops here however and charge them (dealer) for that service. I'm already fixing factory screw up's on new equipment that the factory people screw up now and I do that here as well. Not a lot but that always involves machining, welding and refinishing (with a spray can of Kubota Orange...lol). One nice thing about Echo is their 5 year conditional warranty (consumer) and 1 year commercial warranty and unlike Stihl, they don't **** with it other than a straight gassed saw. Most everything else is covered except obvious customer abuse (like no bar oil and burned up bars or saw loops). I don't get involved in the front office relations between Echo and the owner and the customers, I just report my findings (like Dennis does) and let them deal with it. People in general are hard on chain saws anyway, just like their tractors. I don't want to wrench on filthy, mis used equipment and I don't want to fiddle with the new (abused) stuff either as it all entails computer controlled engines, after treatment, DEF and all that crap I don't want to know about. Why ALL my farm tractors are pre 4 emissions engines.

I do get employee discount on all my parts and a discount labor rate if they have to go in the shop. Nice thing about that is I don't ever get charged for pickup and delivery either as I haul them myself with the owners roll back and the parts manager lives nearby so if I need any consumables for the tractors, he delivers them to me at no charge except for the parts and Kubota parts, like JD parts are expensive today. I never make any money working for them part time but it offsets my parts and labor charges.

Customer as a rule don't have a clue when it comes to sharp chains or shot bars. They run them until they won't cut anymore, forget to fill the chain lubricant tank or straight gas them. They don't seem to care one way or another and then they bring them in the dealership and complain. People today are whiners and not doers for the most part. Not all but quite a few. I've seen some newer saws that look ancient' covered with crud, chains that are so dull and rocked that you have to grind off half a cutter to get them sharp (or toss them and sell them a new loop or a new bar and loop because the bar is shot too from lack of bar oil). I find it amazingly stupid but in the end, they get to pay for their stupidity. At least the chains I run for my arborist customers, I've educated them a bit about chain loops and bars and when it's time to sharpen or dress a bar and I usually get around 30-40 loops at a crack to sharpen. Loops have gotten expensive just like bars and drive sprockets have. Bidenomics at it's best. I just took a 30% increase on Tungsten electrodes for the TIG welder. I only buy my TIG Tungsten from Midwest Tungsten in McCook, Illinois because they are the last domestic producer of Tungsten electrodes left here and I won't buy Chinese Tungsten, it's sub standard and all the TIG I do has to be certified AWS. I buy it in bulk packs. Makes no difference in price however. I understand how it works and I'll increase my price accordingly to my customers, even though the customers I deal with want the best low ball price. I always need a sharp pencil to stay ahead. So far, so good and my arborist customers also understand that. I typically charge 50 cents an inch for sharpening chipper knives, just upped that to 75 cents an inch and if the knives are really dull, as in they ran some nails or whatever through the knives and rocked the anvils as well, it's a buck an inch and on loops, 75 cents per inch of teeth and that includes dropping the rakers if required. Least with them, they don't usually rock chains or do dirt cutting either and if the loops have corroded drivers, I toss them in the scrap can. Got them trained on that as well. I give them a new 5 gallon bucket with oil in the bottom. Keeps the chains oiled and no rust. None of them run import chains either. Mostly Stihl or Oregon and very little PICO low kickback loops either, just the liming saws and mostly the high buck Stihl top handle saws. Most of the chain I run are either 325 or 404 and yes, I make up new loops here as well.

Now, I do sharpen with Diamond Abrasives CBN wheels always (I know there are cheaper (imported) wheels out there and I've read on here that they can be hard to deal with, something I've found not to be true and I have a commercial account with them as well so if I order something, it gets shipped right away and I pay at the end of the month. In fact, they are going to produce a sharpening jig for Greenteeth Tungsten Carbide stump grinder teeth and I've provided them with some dull teeth to build their new sharpening tool with. Nice folks and I get along with them just fine plus I've gotten to know the owner as well. We are all in business to make money despite the Bidenomics. and so far I'm busy and keeping my 2 employees happy too. Green Manufacturing is local for me and I also have an account with them but they only sell new tooth assemblies, they don't sharpen used cutters. The issue with sharpening used Tungsten Carbide cutters is, you have to use a diamond wheel and the swarf from carbide is a known carcinogen so that in itself is a touchy subject. I'm sure that once they perfect their sharpen jig it will come with some kind of 'hold harmless' note, just like most everything comes with today. Right now, if I dress them here in the shop (I own my own stump grinder), I run them on one of my vertical mills with the tooth chucked in the R8 spindle in the appropriate holder and a drill motor clamped in the milling vise with a diamond impregnated wheel of suitable radius that will concave the cutters and provide the relief to shave the stumps but it's a tedious process and I have to have a negative air hander with a HEPA filter installed nearby to suck off all the grindings so I don't breathe them. I do the same when I sharpen Tungsten electrodes for TIG welding with exotic metals. Tungsten electrodes, especially thorated and lanthinated electrodes when grinding produce toxic swarf. I usually buy them pre sharpened but with the price increase, I'll do that in the shop and be more careful not to dip the filler rod too close to the electrodes when welding and foul them. Has to stay in the inert gas envelope however. Not much room for error there and with my cancer issue, I don't need anything else to aggravate it.
 
I'm already focused enough (remember, I have 2 full time employees and maybe a third once I buy either a Shop Saber or Langmuir full sized 4 x 8-10 plasma table and build an addition on the main shop because I'm out of room presently. Between contract machining for 2-3 tier automotive suppliers, sharpening chipper knives and anvils for all the local arborists, working on their rolling stock (not chainsaws), heavy fabrication on loader and excavator buckets, doing AWS certified welding (which I have to do myself because I hold the AWS certification and sharpening their saw chains (I like doing that actually), at 73, I'm real busy and that don't include my part time job at the local Kubota dealer, delivering new tractors and picking up used ones and fiddling in the shop as well and farming in the warm months and always loosing money with that (but it's fun as well), I need to start slowing down a bit. My ongoing cancer, I can deal with just fine actually, but at 73, it's getting time to kick back and spend some of the revenue and maybe start taking cruises with my wife to far away warm places in the winter. Problem is, I'm a 100% hands on boss and I'm (OCD) about how the shop runs and kept spotless, so I'm a prick. Don't know how my wife of 37 years stand me. She must have an iron will or a lot of ear wax and ignores me most times. All I know is I would not be successful and financially secure if it was not for her and a good accountant. I do have to take 2 days every other week to get my ongoing chemo with no end date as my cancer issue is not operable. I can keep it in remission for a price, however. Now that my Kubota dealer has taken on an Echo franchise, I'll probably will be getting into that as well. I will sharpen customer loops here however and charge them (dealer) for that service. I'm already fixing factory screw up's on new equipment that the factory people screw up now and I do that here as well. Not a lot but that always involves machining, welding and refinishing (with a spray can of Kubota Orange...lol). One nice thing about Echo is their 5 year conditional warranty (consumer) and 1 year commercial warranty and unlike Stihl, they don't **** with it other than a straight gassed saw. Most everything else is covered except obvious customer abuse (like no bar oil and burned up bars or saw loops). I don't get involved in the front office relations between Echo and the owner and the customers, I just report my findings (like Dennis does) and let them deal with it. People in general are hard on chain saws anyway, just like their tractors. I don't want to wrench on filthy, mis used equipment and I don't want to fiddle with the new (abused) stuff either as it all entails computer controlled engines, after treatment, DEF and all that crap I don't want to know about. Why ALL my farm tractors are pre 4 emissions engines.

I do get employee discount on all my parts and a discount labor rate if they have to go in the shop. Nice thing about that is I don't ever get charged for pickup and delivery either as I haul them myself with the owners roll back and the parts manager lives nearby so if I need any consumables for the tractors, he delivers them to me at no charge except for the parts and Kubota parts, like JD parts are expensive today. I never make any money working for them part time but it offsets my parts and labor charges.

Customer as a rule don't have a clue when it comes to sharp chains or shot bars. They run them until they won't cut anymore, forget to fill the chain lubricant tank or straight gas them. They don't seem to care one way or another and then they bring them in the dealership and complain. People today are whiners and not doers for the most part. Not all but quite a few. I've seen some newer saws that look ancient' covered with crud, chains that are so dull and rocked that you have to grind off half a cutter to get them sharp (or toss them and sell them a new loop or a new bar and loop because the bar is shot too from lack of bar oil). I find it amazingly stupid but in the end, they get to pay for their stupidity. At least the chains I run for my arborist customers, I've educated them a bit about chain loops and bars and when it's time to sharpen or dress a bar and I usually get around 30-40 loops at a crack to sharpen. Loops have gotten expensive just like bars and drive sprockets have. Bidenomics at it's best. I just took a 30% increase on Tungsten electrodes for the TIG welder. I only buy my TIG Tungsten from Midwest Tungsten in McCook, Illinois because they are the last domestic producer of Tungsten electrodes left here and I won't buy Chinese Tungsten, it's sub standard and all the TIG I do has to be certified AWS. I buy it in bulk packs. Makes no difference in price however. I understand how it works and I'll increase my price accordingly to my customers, even though the customers I deal with want the best low ball price. I always need a sharp pencil to stay ahead. So far, so good and my arborist customers also understand that. I typically charge 50 cents an inch for sharpening chipper knives, just upped that to 75 cents an inch and if the knives are really dull, as in they ran some nails or whatever through the knives and rocked the anvils as well, it's a buck an inch and on loops, 75 cents per inch of teeth and that includes dropping the rakers if required. Least with them, they don't usually rock chains or do dirt cutting either and if the loops have corroded drivers, I toss them in the scrap can. Got them trained on that as well. I give them a new 5 gallon bucket with oil in the bottom. Keeps the chains oiled and no rust. None of them run import chains either. Mostly Stihl or Oregon and very little PICO low kickback loops either, just the liming saws and mostly the high buck Stihl top handle saws. Most of the chain I run are either 325 or 404 and yes, I make up new loops here as well.

Now, I do sharpen with Diamond Abrasives CBN wheels always (I know there are cheaper (imported) wheels out there and I've read on here that they can be hard to deal with, something I've found not to be true and I have a commercial account with them as well so if I order something, it gets shipped right away and I pay at the end of the month. In fact, they are going to produce a sharpening jig for Greenteeth Tungsten Carbide stump grinder teeth and I've provided them with some dull teeth to build their new sharpening tool with. Nice folks and I get along with them just fine plus I've gotten to know the owner as well. We are all in business to make money despite the Bidenomics. and so far I'm busy and keeping my 2 employees happy too. Green Manufacturing is local for me and I also have an account with them but they only sell new tooth assemblies, they don't sharpen used cutters. The issue with sharpening used Tungsten Carbide cutters is, you have to use a diamond wheel and the swarf from carbide is a known carcinogen so that in itself is a touchy subject. I'm sure that once they perfect their sharpen jig it will come with some kind of 'hold harmless' note, just like most everything comes with today. Right now, if I dress them here in the shop (I own my own stump grinder), I run them on one of my vertical mills with the tooth chucked in the R8 spindle in the appropriate holder and a drill motor clamped in the milling vise with a diamond impregnated wheel of suitable radius that will concave the cutters and provide the relief to shave the stumps but it's a tedious process and I have to have a negative air hander with a HEPA filter installed nearby to suck off all the grindings so I don't breathe them. I do the same when I sharpen Tungsten electrodes for TIG welding with exotic metals. Tungsten electrodes, especially thorated and lanthinated electrodes when grinding produce toxic swarf. I usually buy them pre sharpened but with the price increase, I'll do that in the shop and be more careful not to dip the filler rod too close to the electrodes when welding and foul them. Has to stay in the inert gas envelope however. Not much room for error there and with my cancer issue, I don't need anything else to aggravate it.
Didn't know this was the write a book thread...
 
Something reminded me, If you sharpen chains get the money up front.

I brought home maybe 50 pounds of sharpened chains that were never picked up even paid in advance.

So, you can imagine what it would be if paid when picked up.
Not a problem with me at all. I always get paid for what I do and I operate on the 'once bitten twice shy' philosophy. I don't get paid, I refuse to do the next time. Real simple and real effective but I will say, so far, that has never happened to me. At the outset I was grinding chipper knives via through the mail but I quit doing that a while ago, same with chain loops. I only do established arborists now that are local to me and do business with me with other things as well. That mail thing is a PITA. Postage. special wrapping (because they go back razor sharp), pay pal and their portal fees and all that crap is too involved for me to deal with plus all the through the mail knives I got were horrible anyway. Like chain saws, people run then way past dull and then expect a pristine knife or chain loop in return. Don't work that way at all and I was supplying new hold down SHCS grade 8 fasteners and nylock nuts with the knives as well. I got to the point where I said enclose a check for the estimated amount (which I always set high) and that was that. People want something for nothing today and I don't play that game and never will. Piizz on them all.

I've 'trained my arborist customers to 'keep an eye' on their cutters and when they start to build pitch on the topside of the cutter, to swap out chains. Of course that don't include rocking a chain and they are all smart enough to fill the bar oil tank and not straight gas them either. After all, they are in business to make a profit, not pizz it away with ongoing maintenance stuff. Poop happens to everyone including me. Mitigating that poop is always paramount and makes it easier for me as well. Don't work on any saws here, except my own. Don't want to and don't have the time anyway. My saws are all well maintained, always have sharp loops and bar noses greased (and yes all my bars have greaseable roller noses on them) and they get greased with very high quality bearing grease every time I use them (after they get cleaned and tanks refilled with canned gas and quality bar oil). I dislike grungy saws anyway. You won't find any gunge on any of my saws, ever. Not even my 45+ year old 028 though the Stihl powder coat is a bit chipped on the bottom. Stihl my favorite saw. and always will be (play on words there) there, lol. Never had a roller nose fail either. I can wear the bars out even when flipping them with every loop change (have to have the rail burrs ground off) and when the rock diminishes to a point, get replaced. which is very infrequent. Heck, my 028 is only on it's second spark plug and second drive sprocket. Always starts right up on the second pull, winter or summer and it's obnoxiously loud because like every Stihl I own, the muffler is gutted, so ear plugs are mandatory. Only on it's second bar as well. When I buy any saw, I always buy a spare bar and a spare loop of saw chain. She's a screamer too. 028's are RPM saws. Probably getting time to do a pressure test on the bottom end, seals, even quality Stihl seals don't last forever. I don't buy aftermarket Chinese seals either. While I like oriental food, I'm not fond of offshore parts at all and that includes the Chineseum chainsaws as well.
 
Ok I’m saying this as an 18 year old, but with a fair bit of experience under my belt. Many on this forum have forgotten more than I know, many others have been cutting since before I was born.

I acted like I knew everything a few years ago too, then reality set in and I completely changed my viewpoint. I’m a hell of a lot more willing to take advice and criticism now. Shame 95% of my generation hasn’t figured that out yet, it’d do them some good
 
Not a problem with me at all. I always get paid for what I do and I operate on the 'once bitten twice shy' philosophy. I don't get paid, I refuse to do the next time. Real simple and real effective but I will say, so far, that has never happened to me. At the outset I was grinding chipper knives via through the mail but I quit doing that a while ago, same with chain loops. I only do established arborists now that are local to me and do business with me with other things as well. That mail thing is a PITA. Postage. special wrapping (because they go back razor sharp), pay pal and their portal fees and all that crap is too involved for me to deal with plus all the through the mail knives I got were horrible anyway. Like chain saws, people run then way past dull and then expect a pristine knife or chain loop in return. Don't work that way at all and I was supplying new hold down SHCS grade 8 fasteners and nylock nuts with the knives as well. I got to the point where I said enclose a check for the estimated amount (which I always set high) and that was that. People want something for nothing today and I don't play that game and never will. Piizz on them all.

I've 'trained my arborist customers to 'keep an eye' on their cutters and when they start to build pitch on the topside of the cutter, to swap out chains. Of course that don't include rocking a chain and they are all smart enough to fill the bar oil tank and not straight gas them either. After all, they are in business to make a profit, not pizz it away with ongoing maintenance stuff. Poop happens to everyone including me. Mitigating that poop is always paramount and makes it easier for me as well. Don't work on any saws here, except my own. Don't want to and don't have the time anyway. My saws are all well maintained, always have sharp loops and bar noses greased (and yes all my bars have greaseable roller noses on them) and they get greased with very high quality bearing grease every time I use them (after they get cleaned and tanks refilled with canned gas and quality bar oil). I dislike grungy saws anyway. You won't find any gunge on any of my saws, ever. Not even my 45+ year old 028 though the Stihl powder coat is a bit chipped on the bottom. Stihl my favorite saw. and always will be (play on words there) there, lol. Never had a roller nose fail either. I can wear the bars out even when flipping them with every loop change (have to have the rail burrs ground off) and when the rock diminishes to a point, get replaced. which is very infrequent. Heck, my 028 is only on it's second spark plug and second drive sprocket. Always starts right up on the second pull, winter or summer and it's obnoxiously loud because like every Stihl I own, the muffler is gutted, so ear plugs are mandatory. Only on it's second bar as well. When I buy any saw, I always buy a spare bar and a spare loop of saw chain. She's a screamer too. 028's are RPM saws. Probably getting time to do a pressure test on the bottom end, seals, even quality Stihl seals don't last forever. I don't buy aftermarket Chinese seals either. While I like oriental food, I'm not fond of offshore parts at all and that includes the Chineseum chainsaws as well.

Most of the pros we deal with sharpen their own. Ninety percent are just home owners, many you have never seen before or since. The store averages about 500 customers a day. Obviously, small percentage of that has anything to do with service on any particular day. But, that is the customer base.
 
Ok I’m saying this as an 18 year old, but with a fair bit of experience under my belt. Many on this forum have forgotten more than I know, many others have been cutting since before I was born.

I acted like I knew everything a few years ago too, then reality set in and I completely changed my viewpoint. I’m a hell of a lot more willing to take advice and criticism now. Shame 95% of my generation hasn’t figured that out yet, it’d do them some good
I'm with you on this one, it takes a lot of patience to learn and a humble attitude to master something. I'm 26 and a mech. engineer and every day I take time to learn from those around me. Yes there are a lot of folks from the older generation who may be stuck up (not pointing fingers, I work with some lol) but it doesn't make their knowledge worthless by any means. They are often just sick of the same ole young folks not taking any sound advice and therefore impatient to teach. I also thought I knew everything at 16..

Long story short, I appreciate any and all help I can get and so should the other young ones like me. I might be successful in life but its not because I was born with a big head full of every piece of knowledge out there lol.
 
I'm with you on this one, it takes a lot of patience to learn and a humble attitude to master something. I'm 26 and a mech. engineer and every day I take time to learn from those around me. Yes there are a lot of folks from the older generation who may be stuck up (not pointing fingers, I work with some lol) but it doesn't make their knowledge worthless by any means. They are often just sick of the same ole young folks not taking any sound advice and therefore impatient to teach. I also thought I knew everything at 16..

Long story short, I appreciate any and all help I can get and so should the other young ones like me. I might be successful in life but its not because I was born with a big head full of every piece of knowledge out there lol.
I'm in agreement on all points. Additionally, I noticed that the day I started really taking in what the good old boys I've worked with were telling me, was when my saw knowledge furthered dramatically. Those were the guys that helped me go from struggling to tune a carburetor to rebuilding a saw top to bottom, and I'm forever grateful for their wisdom
 
the customers I deal with want the best low ball price.
That can be a real issue for me in my side business. Although I enjoy the work, it has to pay me enough to make it worth my time. Add to that the cost of fuel, insurance, worker's comp, it gets very expensive very fast. Or, in today's world, the numbers get large but the actual "expensive" is mostly sucked up in other hugely expensive matters.
 
I acted like I knew everything a few years ago too,
You probably did know everything. I think I hit my peak smartness about age 15, I really did know pretty much everything. I've been getting stupider ever since. I've been doing this sort of work since quite possibly before your parents were born...
 
You probably did know everything. I think I hit my peak smartness about age 15, I really did know pretty much everything. I've been getting stupider ever since. I've been doing this sort of work since quite possibly before your parents were born...
past age 15 you start forgetting stuff
I gotta write down anything important, tell me a phone number in person and by the 4th number I forgot the area code
 
I could remember like 15 phone numbers, now much less IDK prob cause auto dial.
I can remember my moms, dads, and my own phone number, I can recognize when certain customers call back depending how well I liked them, BUT I couldn't recite the number, just that I know the name attached to it
I can remember a lot of oddball crap that has no practical use but never the important stuff, last few months ive looked like biden having conversations
 
I can remember my moms, dads, and my own phone number, I can recognize when certain customers call back depending how well I liked them, BUT I couldn't recite the number, just that I know the name attached to it
I can remember a lot of oddball crap that has no practical use but never the important stuff, last few months ive looked like biden having conversations
I remember my first phone number when I was 5 y/o.
 
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