Which owb to buy

[applefarmer]

At the moment, 2 wood stoves, one pellet stove.

One wood stove is akin to an OWB, very large, throw a match in in to get it going , puts out a lot of heat but it certainly burns a lot.

My other one is a quarter the size, produces probably 2/3rds the heat but uses a fraction of the wood the other stove does.

I have a Triangle Tube Boiler, very efficient but still burns Propane.

This will be the back up to the Garns, due in a few weeks. I am not trying to suggest that Garn is a best solution in all cases, I looked at many. There was a Viessmann Boiler that could have been my first choice but not available in the US, yet?.

If I had gone that way I probably would have gone with Viessmann for Propane as well.

There are many options, what suits one person may suit another.

An OWB might be a good solution, but I think it would be pretty rare set of circumstances. At least upgrade to the hybrid.

Nothing personal, but I have a little bone to pick here....

Blah,blah,blah- more insults to current owb owners from someone who does not even own one. Try burning seasoned wood, no more smoke trouble. Count the time it takes to process a seasons worth of wood to burn. It took me between 3-4 days to go from woods to wood pile. If I had to cut everything 16" and split down to 8" I think it would take me twice as long.

You going to by a garn, great it looks like an awsome boiler. I am sure it is more effecient than mine, it sure looks more impressive, but for those in the right situation for a standard owb, the payback time would be huge. I have around $7500.00 in my system, I think you will be close to $15,000.00 probably more if you have to build a building/woodshed around it.

Also I don't like babysitting, or starting fires. I start one fire in October. I check/add wood twice a day. I remove half the ashes once a month, thats it. I have used 10 cord this season, yes a lot of wood, but I am lucky that I have a lot of wood(s), and so far I have not had to cut down one live tree. Just make sure you add everything into the equation before you decide what is best.

 

[Como]

Blah,blah,blah- more insults to current owb owners from someone who does not even own one.

I looked at them, CB's are the choice around here. Then I saw a Garn in operation being fed newly felled wood and the only complaint was that it used more wood than they were anticipating.

Try burning seasoned wood, no more smoke trouble. Count the time it takes to process a seasons worth of wood to burn. It took me between 3-4 days to go from woods to wood pile. If I had to cut everything 16" and split down to 8" I think it would take me twice as long.

Seasoned wood is undoubtedly the best bet whether it be a stove or a boiler.

The firebox is 41" long, I have been thinking of getting a splitter that could do 36". Not cheap, need to find out if it is worth the hassle.

You going to by a garn, great it looks like an awsome boiler. I am sure it is more efficient than mine, it sure looks more impressive, but for those in the right situation for a standard owb, the payback time would be huge. I have around $7500.00 in my system, I think you will be close to $15,000.00 probably more if you have to build a building/woodshed around it.

I am looking at it over a longer period, lets say 30 years. One of the CB owners has a E Classic 2300 and last I heard was burning 8 cords, a month. That was in November. Even if your wood is free sic, you still have a lot of cost in processing. And the space to store it.

Also I don't like babysitting, or starting fires. I start one fire in October. I check/add wood twice a day. I remove half the ashes once a month, that's it. I have used 10 cord this season, yes a lot of wood, but I am lucky that I have a lot of wood(s), and so far I have not had to cut down one live tree. Just make sure you add everything into the equation before you decide what is best.

I will be getting through a lot more. I go through 5 cords now. The only operational aspect different is the need to press the button for the fan after loading.

 

[Como]

Wow if you're going Garn you're serious about woodburning-----Hope you keep us posted on your install. You are right OWB's aren't the solution in many many cases. I'm guessing you're in the NE US. Is there any chance you've consulted heaterman from **********? He's done lots of Garns but he's in Michigan.

Just got asked for the final payment, so will not be that long.

I am in the Rockies, so a long way away.

 

[johnnylabguy]

Como, just want to add my opinion too...
I researched heavily the OWB vs. Gassifier debate this winter too.
For my situation the OWB came out on top everytime.
-I own 13 acres of woods and have access to other wood(+owb)
-I have a family and job to look after, the gassifiers take a lot more tending/babysitting. Reading thread after thread of tweaking the gassifier burn processes/loading/valving/split size/ seasoning has taught me that.(+owb)
-cost. any gassifier with decent storage for longer heating periods costs quite a bit more to install than an OWB.
-seasoning. although I always stay a year ahead now its still nice to know that I could burn less than seasoned wood if needed in an OWB. Not the case in a gassifier unless you split it very small. Which takes more time and effort away from family and job.

I really like the idea of the gasifier for efficiency and emissions, which is why I researched it so heavily. In the end it seemed to me that It would take just as much effort(if not more) than my current simple/inexpensive setup of a basic(but definately not efficient admittedly) US Stove Hotblast 1557. I paid less than 2500 cash for the total set up with stainless chimney liner from the basement. I feed the firebox 4 times a day to keep my whole house 70+ degrees all winter long. Feeding it almost that much for just a little less wood usage and more efficiency isn't worth the added cost if I can't get away with less feeding/process time in the end.

I definately want to get the fire/mess totally outside eventually. When I have the extra money I will buy an OWB or OWB gasifier hybrid in the end. Gasifiers for me just don't add enough benefit for the extra cost, fire tending, wood specs compared to an OWB. That's just my thoughts for my situation. Everyone's is different.

 

[johnnylabguy]

Como, I did want to add that I see you live in the Rockies and probably don't have the access to the long burning hardwoods(osage orange and oak) that I have. That makes more sense with a heat storing gasifier. I burn some softwood and pine in my Hotblast in the shoulder seasons and they don't last two hours before I have to add more wood!

Like I said, everyone's situation is different.

 

[Como]

The majority of Boiler owners never come near a forum, those that do tend to either have problems or are more interested than the average user, hence all the posts about tweaking etc.

I have yet to meet anyone who has a Boiler that posts on a forum about them.

As I mentioned I have seen a Garn being fed newly felled wood, 24 hours maybe to season. No tweaking there, chop and load.

Judging from the feedback I have had, the standard CB's are about 30% efficient, the E Classic about 50% and the Gassifiers 80% ish.

Some of the reasons I chose Garn are due to its simplicity, reliability and longevity. There are more efficient Boilers out there.

I know nothing about furnaces.

 

[wooddog 066]

well also COMO what were stating is instead of all the splitting worried about green wood and tampeing with the gassifier we all love our OWB and dont dawg one till ya try it its the best investment i ever made hands down feed it twice a day and your obserd wood usage numbers are wrong put good underground insulation in and you dont have to worryn and BURN SEASONED WOOD and instead of tending that garm i just sit back with a cold one and relax!!!

 

[applefarmer]

To get back on track to the OP question. I would look at the brands that have been around a while. Central Boiler, Heatmor, Portage and Main, Woodmaster, Hawken Energy are the brands I looked at when I made my purchase. Also, I would avoid boilers that require an additional line set for dhw.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of high quality underground pipe. Figure $10.00-$12.00 per ft for the good stuff. If you are starting from scratch figure the cost of the boiler is abou 2/3 the cost of the total system.

 

[beerman6]

I have yet to meet anyone who has a Boiler that posts on a forum about them.

Thats because they dont have time,feeding the boiler all day... :msp_w00t:

 

[J.W Younger]

Thats because they dont have time,feeding the boiler all day... :msp_w00t:

I don't fill but one time a day usually after work or about 6pm, do you have anything too back up what you said. The 2 best things about an OWB is the convience of not loading it every few hours and keeping the mess outside.

 

[Blazin]

I don't fill but one time a day usually after work or about 6pm, do you have anything too back up what you said. The 2 best things about an OWB is the convience of not loading it every few hours and keeping the mess outside.

Yeah I hate my CB5648. The POS makes it at least 12hrs when it's below zero out on one row of 24" wood...heating 2 houses and a garage + the hot water, and saves me at least $8K a season in fuel oil. Bout had enough of that nonsense :msp_rolleyes:

Reminds me now that it's in the 40's I'd better go throw a row in for the next 3 days :msp_razz:

 

[beerman6]

I was bustin on Como and the Tarn style boilers.

Check my sig,I know the good points of OWBs...

 

[Como]

well also COMO what were stating is instead of all the splitting worried about green wood and tampering with the gassifier we all love our OWB and don't dawg one till ya try it its the best investment i ever made hands down feed it twice a day and your observed wood usage numbers are wrong put good underground insulation in and you don't have to worry and BURN SEASONED WOOD and instead of tending that Garn just sit back with a cold one and relax!!!

I have seen a Garn burn very green wood (not split). obviously not a good idea. For any Boiler.

One load would produce about 800,000 btu's, with an OWB I guess it depends on the size of your firebox. There was one I saw that looked like you could have got half a cord in it. If so that would admittedly have produced about 3,000,000 btus.

 

[Como]

To get back on track to the OP question. I would look at the brands that have been around a while. Central Boiler, Heatmor, Portage and Main, Woodmaster, Hawken Energy are the brands I looked at when I made my purchase. Also, I would avoid boilers that require an additional line set for dhw.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of high quality underground pipe. Figure $10.00-$12.00 per ft for the good stuff. If you are starting from scratch figure the cost of the boiler is abou 2/3 the cost of the total system.

Not sure about Hawken, there seems a lot of dissatisfied customers when I was looking around. Portage and Main seem to have a good reputation.

The price of insulated pipe depends on the size which depends on your peak heat load etc. I am guessing that is for 1 inch pipe.

 

[martyinmi]

The two best brands out there are Portage and Main and Wood Doctor.

 

[thinking]

it shows HawkenGlobalYUK BANNED ????

The Empyre Gassifier I bought has some minor shortcomings but I've saved a lot of wood this last winter by not burning the old OWB, almost half of the wood consumption from the rotting Hawken Energy I had to suffer through the year before. they need to work on some of internal insulation issues, but this is an easy mod. And it doesn't leak.

Well I saw a post in Google on Hawken, clicked on it and it was gone, so i sent a message to the poster above what happen, he replied below and now he is BANNED , seems like a manufacture own this site ? weird !

HawkenGlobalYUK - 15-abr-2011 06:03 - permalink Report
NO!!! We settled out of court after a year and a half battle. Arboristsite removed the thread containing almost two years worth of investigation based only on a request from Hawken Energy's attorney. I have sent transcripts to national media outlets so this story will be made available to the entire public. They are trying to cover up their mess. This is a travesty. A shame.
Just glad I back everything up. Got copies of it all. Over 20,000 views, hundreds of posts, and its all gone (from this site anyway). I would have just left the forum to speak for itself at least that way anyone researching could have had more information to make a decision. But now that it is gone, There is only one other way to get the word out. MEDIA. Not sure who you are or your motive. But there ya go. take care

 

[Como]

For these sort of situations Google may help.

If you search, find the aroborist link than click on cached. Google keeps a historical snapshot.

 

[Boleclimber]

My vote is Central Boiler. I have owned and operated a 4036 since January 2006. I use it year round, heat and hot water in winter, hot water in summer. As long as I burn seasoned wood, smoke is minimal and only on shutdown. I average about 6 cords burned during winter and 1.5 ish during summer. Cords are mixed species including well seasoned eastern white pine. It has been my experience that following factory operating and installation guidelines will reduce or eliminate pollution (smoke) impacts to your self and surroundings.

I heat 1,800 square feet of 2005 construction. Given the insulating value of new construction I am able to use a CB smaller than factory reccomendations.

I had to replace the electronic heat control unit in December 2010. No problems have occurred beyond the control shutdown.

This unit is the "old" design but I would not replace it with any other furnace.

With all this said, I would not install a OWB in a heavily delevoped area. Neighbors may judge it as a "smoke dragon" on steroids. That is if zoning allows the installation.

I heavily congested areas I would opt for an in basement gasifier furnace similar to Tarm or go with a gasifier wood stove.