Wood furnace?perhaps not

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Wood furnace…perhaps not

Long story short. Was going to replace my cracked Quadrafire with a wood furnace as the appliance must go in the unfinished basement. Checked out many of them and even queried here and Hearth .com about a couple but received next to no answers. As I am a bit of a karma person, I took this as a sign of maybe not getting a furnace. the more I read up on them, the more of a pain they seem to be. I do not think I want to deal with adding ducts as my house is hydronic, dealing with blower motors, dealing with computers, having to move ash away just right etc,etc. I just want to chuck wood in and go back upstairs. I use 5-6 cord per year.My house stays at 65-68* when its in the 30's outside. When its like 6* outside, The house will not get above 60*. I'm about to insulate the sill plates and the wall behind the stove. I'll throw on the oil heat to supplement around 7-10 times per year and I do not mind any of this. Quadrafire wants to give me a new 5700 to replace my old one. The stove shop will give me a credit for anything I want to buy including a Blaze King Princess. Some say the new Quads do not throw out as much heat as the old ones. Whatever I get needs to be a convection type heater as i have a hood on the stove. I guess I want simplicity more than anything else but I'd like to get a clue on which units send less heat up the chimney. The old Quad did a creditable job. Do I take a new one or might there be something better?

 

[EXCALIBER]

If it were me I would forget about the princess and put in a Blaze King King model. They are about as efficient as your going to get currently in a stove. They do have a cat so you can only burn wood and no trash or wrapping paper at Christmas time. Every so often you have to brush the ash off the front of the cat and that is about it for maintenance other than replacing the cat every 4 to 10 years or so. Hey what is with the hood thing anyway?

 

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If it were me I would forget about the princess and put in a Blaze King King model. They are about as efficient as your going to get currently in a stove. They do have a cat so you can only burn wood and no trash or wrapping paper at Christmas time. Every so often you have to brush the ash off the front of the cat and that is about it for maintenance other than replacing the cat every 4 to 10 years or so. Hey what is with the hood thing anyway?

The Quad has a metal shield around it 1" away from the stove. The shield acts as a protector so almost no heat gets to the sides of the stove. Instead, the heat wafts up between this shield and the stove plate metal. This type of stove is known as a "convection" type stove as opposed to a "radiant" type where heat comes from all around the stove instead of going straight up as it does on mine. So basically mine is heating air almost as a furnace does. I thought to catch as much as this heat as possible by ducting the hood to the living room. This works very well.

 

[EXCALIBER]

My Blaze King King Ultra has the side shields as well but the reason for it was to allow closer clearances to a wall with the shields on. You can remove them if you had the clearance and didn't want them on. All the heat on my stove comes out the front of the stove and very, very little comes out the sides. After looking at your pic I see how you have ducted it to the upstairs from the hood, although I think with any stove you are going to have problems with the way you have the stack piped from what I can see.

 

[zogger]

Pretty much the best money spent on heating is lots more and better quality insulation throughout the heated area. A true superinsulated structure will require minimal heating requirements. The closer you get to that status, the smaller your heater needs to be, less fuel of any type used, and the most comfortable it will be in the house.

0 degres outside, go out

barechested
T shirt
Light jacket
Winter parka

that's your house in the winter

superinsulated is winter parka status, here is a rundown of what that is...

Superinsulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Getting close is not too bad, all the way is a lot of work, so if you can hit somewhere between light jacket and winter parka level, you should be good with any of your new choices for additional heating When I was doing this way back in the day, quickest easiest gains where around windows and doors, followed by tghe attic, then basements. Exterior walls can be added to with inside sheet insulation and like paneling or dryway over that. Gets tricky with vapor barriers and so on, every home is different, but that link is enough to get you started with research.

 

[arrow]

Pretty much the best money spent on heating is lots more and better quality insulation throughout the heated area. A true superinsulated structure will require minimal heating requirements. The closer you get to that status, the smaller your heater needs to be, less fuel of any type used, and the most comfortable it will be in the house.

0 degres outside, go out

barechested
T shirt
Light jacket
Winter parka

that's your house in the winter

superinsulated is winter parka status, here is a rundown of what that is...

Superinsulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Getting close is not too bad, all the way is a lot of work, so if you can hit somewhere between light jacket and winter parka level, you should be good with any of your new choices for additional heating When I was doing this way back in the day, quickest easiest gains where around windows and doors, followed by tghe attic, then basements. Exterior walls can be added to with inside sheet insulation and like paneling or dryway over that. Gets tricky with vapor barriers and so on, every home is different, but that link is enough to get you started with research.

I agree with everything you state. As I live in a log home, the insulation properties are putrid and not much else can be done. Outside log is inside wall. Have a whopping 2" of poly board in the roof as that was what they put in back then. Have re-corked every log on the house. Have "Great Stuffed" the window and door joists. I'd have to spend $30K to build up the roof. My question was about stoves and what might be better than a Quadrafire 5700 as far as a convection stove..

 

[arrow]

My Blaze King King Ultra has the side shields as well but the reason for it was to allow closer clearances to a wall with the shields on. You can remove them if you had the clearance and didn't want them on. All the heat on my stove comes out the front of the stove and very, very little comes out the sides. After looking at your pic I see how you have ducted it to the upstairs from the hood, although I think with any stove you are going to have problems with the way you have the stack piped from what I can see.

Can you elaborate on this Ex?

 

[zogger]

I agree with everything you state. As I live in a log home, the insulation properties are putrid and not much else can be done. Outside log is inside wall. Have a whopping 2" of poly board in the roof as that was what they put in back then. Have re-corked every log on the house. Have "Great Stuffed" the window and door joists. I'd have to spend $30K to build up the roof. My question was about stoves and what might be better than a Quadrafire 5700 as far as a convection stove..

I understand your question, just giving you another option on a stove, getting by with an even smaller and cheaper model, that's all.

Basically, as you describe it, your house has no insulation at all, none to speak of. Probably quite pretty, but a serious energy user, no matter which new big heater or furnace you get.

 

[ELEVOFF]

I like the set up. Have you tried an open cup or pot of water sitting on top of the stove to add a little density to the air starting upward through your ducting. I think it might help accelerate the air/heat movement when the fire is really hot.

 

[dave_376]

+1 for the Blaze King KING

 

[stihly dan]

I know you don't want ductwork, but you would save tons of heat pushing it all upstairs. Those concrete walls, and floor are a huge heat sink. I bet you have a 2 ft wide snowless ring around your house in winter. Since I put in the furnace, no ring for me anymore.

 

[EXCALIBER]

What I mean is it looks like you are going to have a draft problem with any stove you put in there that is efficient. First it looks like you might have 2 ft of rise straight from the stove then you have almost a 90 degree elbow followed by a slow gradual rise to I am assuming the wall with probably another 90ish degree elbow and then up?

The Blaze Kings are so efficient you have very little heat rising up the flue so you need a specific amount of rise before any elbow's. You also need to run double wall pipe with them inside and triple or double wall insulated pipe with them outside. Due to the very small amount of heat going up the chimney you have to shield it from the cold so it will actually rise out the stack. I would suggest going straight up if possible with the chimney, and if not I would use two 45 degree elbow's instead of the 90's to give it a longer more gradual turn.

 

[arrow]

What I mean is it looks like you are going to have a draft problem with any stove you put in there that is efficient. First it looks like you might have 2 ft of rise straight from the stove then you have almost a 90 degree elbow followed by a slow gradual rise to I am assuming the wall with probably another 90ish degree elbow and then up?

The Blaze Kings are so efficient you have very little heat rising up the flue so you need a specific amount of rise before any elbow's. You also need to run double wall pipe with them inside and triple or double wall insulated pipe with them outside. Due to the very small amount of heat going up the chimney you have to shield it from the cold so it will actually rise out the stack. I would suggest going straight up if possible with the chimney, and if not I would use two 45 degree elbow's instead of the 90's to give it a longer more gradual turn.

Ok thanks. If this is the case, i may not be able to use a Blaze King because my regular furnace is in the way of a straight shot. I had no draft problem with the old unit (Quad 5700). This is an epa type stove going into a 7x11 flue. The Blaze King King has a different flue size than the Princess if I'm not mistaken. I'm having my outside the house 25' chimney rebuilt and this is just as important as the wood burning unit itself. I was thinking with going with a rigid liner (which was going to be 7" as I was first considering the Blaze King Apex furnace) and then pouring loose vermiculite between it and the masonry. Whatever, I need to decide on a unit rather quickly as the mason is coming in a week to knock down the old chimney and put up the new one. Perhaps I should tell him not to put in a liner in the flue if I cannot decide and once I do, put a liner in of the appropriate size with insulation. I suppose this will preclude a triple wall type flue but should achieve the same insulative properties with a proper wrap I'm thinking. Without knowing my thinking is a bunch of crap however so I need to get educated right quickly.

 

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I know you don't want ductwork, but you would save tons of heat pushing it all upstairs. Those concrete walls, and floor are a huge heat sink. I bet you have a 2 ft wide snowless ring around your house in winter. Since I put in the furnace, no ring for me anymore.

The duct work would be minimal ; like two runs from the trunk so I do not knowhow much a difference it would make. If it made a huge difference I'd be game but i think if my home was designed with hot air in the first place, then it would be more effective. A simple retrofit of ducting I'm not so sure of.

 

[EXCALIBER]

Yes the princess is a 6 inch and the king is an 8 inch stack. I am not sure if you would need triple wall or double insulated outside since you were planning on running it in an existing chimney. I would call Blaze King or your dealer and have them look things over and they should be able to tell you what is available and right to use. I would never even think about a princess model with the half sized firebox and only about 300 difference in price between it and the king.

 

[arrow]

Yes the princess is a 6 inch and the king is an 8 inch stack. I am not sure if you would need triple wall or double insulated outside since you were planning on running it in an existing chimney. I would call Blaze King or your dealer and have them look things over and they should be able to tell you what is available and right to use. I would never even think about a princess model with the half sized firebox and only about 300 difference in price between it and the king.

I spoke with a Chuck at Blaze King yesterday. He stated what you said in that I have too many turns for a Blaze King. The flue temps coming from the stove are too low to negotiate all the turns I have. Too bad as that is the most efficient stove around. Cannot use the Apex furnace for the same reason. As the oil burner is in the way, I cannot negotiate placement for any current Blaze King product.

 

[EXCALIBER]

Well that's simple remove the oil burner as you will no longer need it after putting in a new stove! I only use mine about twice in 4 years just because I was to dam lazy to start a fire. I refill my 100lb propane bottle once every year or so for my cookstove.

 

[shelbythedog]

arrow,

Where did your Quad crack? I have nothing but great things to say about my 4300, it was new in 2010 and throws off a ton of heat. No older model to compare mine to, so I guess I can't comment on the old vs. new Quad differences.

 

[stihly dan]

I spoke with a Chuck at Blaze King yesterday. He stated what you said in that I have too many turns for a Blaze King. The flue temps coming from the stove are too low to negotiate all the turns I have. Too bad as that is the most efficient stove around. Cannot use the Apex furnace for the same reason. As the oil burner is in the way, I cannot negotiate placement for any current Blaze King product.

All of the "real" efficient stoves or furnaces will say the same. If they don't, there not really that efficient.

 

[arrow]

arrow,

Where did your Quad crack? I have nothing but great things to say about my 4300, it was new in 2010 and throws off a ton of heat. No older model to compare mine to, so I guess I can't comment on the old vs. new Quad differences.

In 5 places. If you take off the shield, the first two cracks were on either side of the stove toward the front. Next there is a crack right in the middle of the rear air manifold. Two more cracks appear at the corners of the rear air manifold. They changed out the design and it may have been in 2009. If your stove has the ACC or automatic combustion control, then it is of the new design. My stove was made in 2004. I believe the company sold out in 1999 to Home Heating Technologies (or something to that effect) and it was then they purchased steel from China to keep costs low. I have had not one thing made with China steel hold up.