New Safety chain isn't safe

[DOL51CUTIT]

Maybe a new to chainsaws person might get some benefit from this.

As some know I bought 3 left over new 5105s, and an extra chain with each.

The safety chain that came with the 3/8 18--17" bars, was taken off of all 3, to be used as back up.

Yesterday, I decided to put the safety chain back on my saw, and sharpen it with the stihl 2 in 1. I was shocked at how much the rakers came down below factory depth. I thought I would't even touch them. My buddy had his 5105 at my place too, and we decided to put the safety chain back on his, without sharpening. We did 3 cuts each with each saw. Talk about night, and day. Decent chunks, and much faster VS sawdust, and more work to cut. Then just to make sure we could blame it on the factory ultra high rakers, we filed his rakers down with a gauge, then did it all over again. Mine still cut much better with a pre sharpen, but the difference with his was, more then very significant.

The safety chain isn't safe, when you have too try to force thru the log. What were they thinking. It will give some people a false sense of security, with a new chain. Many are not seasoned veterans. I will put myself in the not category, but learned a few things with many years of using nothing but a 170. Safe? I think not, more like dangerous.

I have an oregon chisel, and am going to buy an rm yellow. which ever one I like better, will stay on the saw and the other 2 will be back up.

Some of the pros might disagree, but for the average hack, I think the 2 in 1 is, the sliced bread of sharpeners.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

I discovered the same thing with a new loop of 3/8LP "green" that I bought at Lowe's -- the rakers were only around 0.010"-0.015". I took them down and boy did it make a difference. I wonder if the light cut is part of what makes it a "safety chain".

 

[scottr]

Hey DOL51 did you by chance measure the raker depth to compare to the manufacturers specs ?

 

[2broke2ride]

I think the shallow depth is more a product of them trying to squeeze every inch of bar they can out of the little throw away homeowner saws. They tack a 20" bar on a 35cc saw and make it take a shallow bite so it will actually pull the chain through wood.
Joe homeowner buys a saw based on bar length hence they are marketed that way.

 

[Marley5]

You cut a wheelbarrow load of wood and put saw up = safe.

 

[DOL51CUTIT]

No Scott, I didn't measure the new depth, but that would have been a good idea, for various reasons. I'll bet these were close to what Bobby found with his. I sent my other buddy a message, to check his. I know he pulled his stock chain off as well. I'll report back with his findings.

One other thing I didn't mention first time around, cuz I know I can get long winded.
It appeared that more meat came off some of the rakers then others when I looked thru a mag glass. Could the new rakers be of various depths was well, from the factory? I think they were, in this case. Also unsafe?

2broke you make another very good point, which is also unsafe IMO. I saw it with my own eyes, big long Tim the tool man 20+" bars on small saws. Even with these 5105s I argued to have 16" .325, bars and chain. The deal was the deal, with the 3/8 bar and chain. I did some reading on the 50cc saws, before I bought, then came here and asked questions as well. I knew ahead of time that these can handle 3/8 but most preferred .325. It was going to be a 261, 550, or 5105. I'm not brand loyal. I buy the best I can get the best price on, from a top brand. That goes for everything.
At $479 Canadian, $370 +- US with heat, and 2 year warranty, these were hard to pass up on, and they handle 3/8 18" which is 17" bar without a hiccup.
The average buyer has very little chainsaw experience I think, and it seemed to me that some manufacturers may be selling some saws, with a bit too much eye candy, hanging off the front.

Long bars on small saws can't be safe, when the saw can't push the chain.

Chains that don't cut, and need to be forced thru logs are not safe.

For those who are inexperienced. (I include myself) Previously a few cords a year hardly makes me any kind of expert.
Sharpen any new chain before use. Sharpen often, and make sure your rakers are at spec.
The 2 in 1 sharpener, is as easy as it comes, and puts a great edge on IMO. (No I don't sell them) I just like mine.
Most important,,,,,,,,,is safety gear, steel boots, (not composite), good chaps, and head, eye, and ear protection, at the least.

I'm guessing there are hundreds if not thousands of newbies like me lurking, and reading in here. Be safe.

 

[JimM]

Gee. I guess I have been thinking about this safety chain thing all wrong. I know it doesn’t cut quite as well, but always figured it was designed to be less grabby at the nose of the bar, should the less cautious or unknowing make contact there. Sure, lowering the depth gauges makes it cut better, but would most likely hinder the effect intended at the bar tip.

 

[concretegrazer]

I'd guess it's a quality control issue. Sharpening specks have them all at .025

 

[DOL51CUTIT]

I detect the sarcasm Jim. lol.
Maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe the extra width beef, and design, of safety chain depth gauges, doesn't have any affect, maybe having very little ability to actually cut without using undo force, when plunge cutting or otherwise is safer. Maybe having next to no depth on the rakers is better, when you want to "try" to cut with the tip, but then I guess it could no longer be called safety chain after the first proper sharpening when it actually does cut. Am I correct?

I might be wrong but I think having next to no raker depth, would be bad for the average non-pro. Maybe not as bad as severely over filing rakers, but not as safe as having a sharp chain with proper raker depth, right out of the box.

 

[DOL51CUTIT]

I can tell you concrete both of these chains were no where near .025. Not even close. I'm also confident that the rakers were not all at the same depth.

 

[JimM]

I detect the sarcasm Jim. lol.
Maybe I have it all wrong. Maybe the extra width beef, and design, of safety chain depth gauges, doesn't have any affect, maybe having very little ability to actually cut without using undo force, when plunge cutting or otherwise is safer. Maybe having next to no depth on the rakers is better, when you want to "try" to cut with the tip, but then I guess it could no longer be called safety chain after the first proper sharpening when it actually does cut. Am I correct?

I might be wrong but I think having next to no raker depth, would be bad for the average non-pro. Maybe not as bad as severely over filing rakers, but not as safe as having a sharp chain with proper raker depth, right out of the box.

I’m just saying you cut a pretty wide swath by saying safety chain isn’t safe. Most new users, may be perfectly happy with what they have. As they gain experience and confidence, by all means move forward and onward. Lol

 

[Urbicide]

I always have hated the term, "Safety Chain". There is no such thing. It gives the illusion that cutting with a chain saw is safe. A better description, in my humble opinion, would have been, "Non bore cutting chain".

 

[JimM]

I always have hated the term, "Safety Chain". There is no such thing. It gives the illusion that cutting with a chain saw is safe. A better description, in my humble opinion, would have been, "Non bore cutting chain".

I agree there. Perhaps ‘a little less likely to bite your face’ chain.

 

[JimM]

Non bore cutting would be jibberish to a new person.

 

[DOL51CUTIT]

I agree too, but for these chains will add, they barely cut at all.

Yes Jim, I was intentionally trying to cut a wide swath. I can't speak for all chain, but this safety chain, was anything but, IMO. If my comments helped anyone out there, think a bit about their new chain, then it was worth it. I'm glad you chimed in.

 

[JimM]

I agree too, but for these chains will add, they barely cut at all.

Yes Jim, I was intentionally trying to cut a wide swath. I can't speak for all chain, but this safety chain, was anything but, IMO. If my comments helped anyone out there, think a bit about their new chain, then it was worth it. I'm glad you chimed in.

It’s all good. Getting folks to think is never a bad thing.

 

[Philbert]

It's not 'safety chain'. It's 'low kickback' or 'reduced kickback' chain. It will still cut your leg off.

Depth gauges need to be set for the type of wood, saw, cutting conditions, etc., for optimal cutting performance. Manufacturers has to 'guess' how a particular chain will be used, so they shoot for a 'general' user

You can always remove material from the depth gauges, but it's a real PIA to put it back on.

Philbert

 

[J.W Younger]

I've changed my opinion on vanguard from...it sux... to I like it a lot. Rakers look different but function the same, set em at .025 or with a file o plate, or other progressive device and it works as good or better than lgx/lpx or rs/rsc.