cutting down leaning, hollow, large trees over targets.

[SemperFiSawguy]

Just felled this massive willow tree today, thing was completly hollow, leaning out over a septic tank and the homeowners house. I used a 200' 3/4" samson stable braid rope choked up as high as i could throw with my throw ball, and tied it off to my 10,000lbs tracked skidloader a good distance away, had my groundsmen set the tension on the rope and then i did a shallow face cut. A generous bore cut leaving about 8 inches of hinge, prepped it with wedges closest to the outside as to not shatter the small amount of wood i had and then quickly cut the back strap and it fell over acrossed its lean without incident!! Couldve gone badly but im glad it didnt!! I have some questions from you more experienced gents out there. Short of getting a crane, did i make the right call? And also, how do you guys tie a rope off to a skidloader knot wise?? I useually do a bunch of wraps on a clevis and then set it with 3 or 4 half hitches and that seams to hold, but i recently had a rope break doing that and it seemed like it was cut!! Any tips would be apprecieted!! I love learning!!

 

[NeSurfcaster]

Can you weld a shackle or something similar to the skid steer? That's what my neighbor did with his kabota. A endless loop strap/false crotch with some chafe gaurd is probably the easiest way. Choke the strap around the bucket.
My neighbor added gussets to reinforce his weld job on his bucket. Don't know exactly how strong it is but it's pretty darn strong.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

I mean what kind of knot to terminate a 200' rope to a shackle welded to the bucket, i didnt know if there was a knot anyone liked particularly well for hard pulling that also comes undone nicely that wont cut the rope. I thought maybe a bowline in a bite but that doesnt always untie nicely.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

I'm not gonna say if you did the right thing or not. Seems risky, but I assume you have insurance and it was your call.

I will add one tip for pulling over a big tree like that. In general, making your back cut at the SAME level as the apex of the face cut is the best way to make sure you don't cut through your hinge. For felling trees that might slide the log backwards off the stump, making your back cut HIGHER than the face cut is a good technique. I believe this is called a stump shot, and seems to be what's going on in your picture. But, when pulling over a tree, especially with a rope not at the highest possible point, making your back cut BELOW the face is the correct method. This will help prevent the log from pulling forward off the stump and allowing the tree to fall backwards from the intended direction.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Interesting principle ryan ill have to try that, i have always made a "classical" notch set up with my back cuts insuring my back cut is higher then my face. But maybe going level will help, i always thought going lower then the apex of the face cut weakened the hinge? Which would in fact be detrimental applying un -natural force to it IE pulling it. I have never tried it so it may he something to practice on a field edge or something. ‍

 

[old CB]

When pulling trees I use a cow hitch to the hardware at my anchor. My anchor is usually a come-along strapped to a tree, but sometimes I attach to a pickup (others might have a tractor or skid steer or whatever). Regardless, I find the cow hitch sufficient. It doesn't look like enough, but it'll lock up tight. (for demo of the cow hitch, go to "Animated knots," as there are some youtube demonstrations of cow hitch that make my head spin with extra complication.) If heavily loaded it can be tough to undo, but I put a boot against the bight and push it loose. The beauty of this thing is its simplicity. Quick to make, quick to unmake.

Also, if your bowline gets heavily loaded it can be a bear to undo. A way to avoid that is: the bight where the rabbit runs around the tree--leave that kind of loose rather than drawing it up tight. The rabbit hole bight is the one that locks everything tight, so the run around the tree can be left a bit loose (be sure to leave a sufficient tag end for insurance). Then, when you're ready to unmake your bowline, you push on that less-than-tight bight and you'll gain slack to allow opening the rest. Hopefully I've described it clearly.

Like everything, try a practice run on any of this stuff so nothing's at stake in case of a problem. For instance, with the cow hitch, tie a cow hitch to the ball on your pickup, then tie off the other end of your rope to a tree. Gently roll your pickup forward and see how far you get. That thing will stop you cold.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Thabk you so much old cb i appreciete that!! Sounds like a solid knot ill give it a try!!

 

[tree MDS]

Double bowline. If tied properly you should end up with three loops to put a clevis through (or around a pintle, or whatever).

 

[derwoodii]

i did similar a few weeks back and as you used my throw line to get bull rope up as high possible then hitched to 85 hp 4x4 tractor.. I use a knot called a running 8.. This knot i have tested at rope factory and found it stronger than bowline and even after pulled to breaking it will untie,, oh may need a screw driver to nip open cooked snitch..




sorry this link to 2009 thread has lost all pictured when site got hacked few years back and i lost bits & some pictures of the rope testing report but it so simple knot its just great
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/whats-this-knot.110861/

running 8 knot



this was test bed at rope factory 2009 its strains rope till break dynamic bang !



12kv power line was just behind 100 year old rotten dead pine canopy full of hangers that balanced & was not going to over by itself


gee for n old bloke i can run

 

[mikewhite85]

We often use the grcs to pull trees or a farmi winch on a tractor- usually tied with a clove hitch on a clevis shackle

I almost always use a redirect when possible to double my pulling power.

 

[lone wolf]

I mean what kind of knot to terminate a 200' rope to a shackle welded to the bucket, i didnt know if there was a knot anyone liked particularly well for hard pulling that also comes undone nicely that wont cut the rope. I thought maybe a bowline in a bite but that doesnt always untie nicely.

Bowline on a bight is what i have always used.

 

[arathol]

I mean what kind of knot to terminate a 200' rope to a shackle welded to the bucket, i didnt know if there was a knot anyone liked particularly well for hard pulling that also comes undone nicely that wont cut the rope. I thought maybe a bowline in a bite but that doesnt always untie nicely.

If the bowline on a bight is tied and used properly its should come apart easily, that is why this knot is used for pulling. If you don't work the knot in right and get it set, it can turn on itself. Try to untie it wrong and it can get messy.
When you are pulling with a bucket, you need to remember to never have any part of the bucket, especially the cutting edge, in contact with the rope. Some guys will try to get a bit more out of the rope by rolling the bucket back. If the edge makes contact with the bucket, you get a stress riser and the rope can break. In addition, make sure the rope comes off the attachment point cleanly, in a straight line from the middle. If the rope comes off the knot at an angle or comes off the side of the hook and makes a turn, that also can create a point where the rope can break. The way you tie the rope off is as important as the knot you use to do it.

 

[Wow]

When pulling with a rope with my tractor, where its attached to the bucket the thing I mostly consider how a rope fits around a big round object where several wraps can work together similar to a Capstan.
Making sure the bucket blade or sharp corners are clear the rope is wrapped 5 or 6 times around a big round metal pipe part of the front end loaded. Then a chain knot to secure the wraps and another chain knot then a half hitch.
In the tree I use a running Bolen with a small pull down rope on it just in case we end up aborting before cutting. Sudden rain and lightening storms etc. I've only had to abort once but leaveing a 300 dollar rope in a tree overnight makes me nervous. Also I like a guide line attached so when the tree goes over and the pull rope gets slack (sometimes it does) a couple men can run and pull the slack out. Hollow trees are uncomfortable to me and standing dead trees too. However I normally accept the knowledge that around here I trust myself more than anyone else I know so I study the tree including wind conditions. Once a scary tree needed to fall East but a strong East wind came up just when I was about to cut which would mean falling against a strong wind. I moved safely away from the tree and waited. The lady noticed me lounging and ask me what I'm doing. I said I'm waiting for a west wind before I cut. I also had whispered a quiet private prayer (certainly can't hurt nothing) and patiently waited. Within about 30 minutes the wind shifted Straight from the West. Quickly I went to work. Tree fell where I wanted. The lady seemed surprised. Bravery and Fool hard mixed with Ego is like Dynamite. Good luck.

 

[The Lorax]

Alpine Butterfly is a good strong knot that will retain a lot of strength.

 

[tree MDS]

I used one of my dogs chew toys to try and show you people what I have used for thirty years or so. I always called it a double bowline, but it appears different from what the internet says a double is (lol). Anyway, like I said, three loops and two pieces of rope in the “bow”. I can tell you from experience this will never fail and will always come untied easily (many, many tractor winch pulls). Old school stuff (like before the internet).

 

[BC WetCoast]

If you put a stick into your knot before tightening, removing the stick ususlly gives the slack necessary to untie the knot.
Im not a fan of using machinery to pull over a tree. Just one more layer of things that can go wrong.

 

[Jessalba]

I'm not gonna say if you did the right thing or not. Seems risky, but I assume you have insurance and it was your call.

I will add one tip for pulling over a big tree like that. In general, making your back cut at the SAME level as the apex of the face cut is the best way to make sure you don't cut through your hinge. For felling trees that might slide the log backwards off the stump, making your back cut HIGHER than the face cut is a good technique. I believe this is called a stump shot, and seems to be what's going on in your picture. But, when pulling over a tree, especially with a rope not at the highest possible point, making your back cut BELOW the face is the correct method. This will help prevent the log from pulling forward off the stump and allowing the tree to fall backwards from the intended direction.

Agree with you

 

[NeSurfcaster]

Yup the old hillbilly overhand knot filled with a handfull of sticks works well. Never seen one come undone and always comes undone once sticks are busted out of knot when done. I use a bowline and never had a problem getting it undone. Backfeeding the rope into the bowline always loosens it up. I've pulled trees over w/ a dump truck and it maybe took 30 secoinds to undo bowline. My dad said in the navy they used the bowline to tie up the ships at times. If a 300' ship can't tighten up the bowline past untying it's ok for the few tons I'm gonna put on it.

 

[Jessalba]

Just felled this massive willow tree today, thing was completly hollow, leaning out over a septic tank and the homeowners house. I used a 200' 3/4" samson stable braid rope choked up as high as i could throw with my throw ball, and tied it off to my 10,000lbs tracked skidloader a good distance away, had my groundsmen set the tension on the rope and then i did a shallow face cut. A generous bore cut leaving about 8 inches of hinge, prepped it with wedges closest to the outside as to not shatter the small amount of wood i had and then quickly cut the back strap and it fell over acrossed its lean without incident!! Couldve gone badly but im glad it didnt!! I have some questions from you more experienced gents out there. Short of getting a crane, did i make the right call? And also, how do you guys tie a rope off to a skidloader knot wise?? I useually do a bunch of wraps on a clevis and then set it with 3 or 4 half hitches and that seams to hold, but i recently had a rope break doing that and it seemed like it was cut!! Any tips would be apprecieted!! I love learning!!

Great work dude!!!

 

[Wyrdman]

I usually use a clove hitch when attaching a rope to a come a long hook. I have a hook hitch for my pickup that I use either a clove hitch or a "pile hitch" with a couple extra wraps around the standing end before dropping the loop onto the hook. Its usually a midline attachable method needed, rather than end tie method. never pulled a rope with a skid loader, but with a truck or come a long I find generally its better to avoid any kind of actual knot because they'll all be hard to untie, better to use the friction of multiple wraps. When I have a ball hitch on and I need to tie a rope to it I'll use a shackle and a carabiner like this.