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How often do you plung cut when felling?

Discussion in 'Forestry and Logging Forum' started by Squatch, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    As a rule of thumb how much lean does a tree have before you decide to use the plung cut/blackstrap method. Specifically fir trees?
     
  2. 2dogs

    2dogs Addicted to ArboristSite

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    About the only time I use the backstrap method is when the footing isn't good, like too many roots or rocks. During those times and occasional others it is a good method. Most of the time cutting leaners I use a Coos Bay back cut, either tee or wedge.

    I don't like the risk of the backstrap breaking and grabbing my saw. I have had a few tanoaks grab the bar when I thought the strap cut was far enough below the backcut. Big tanoaks are unpredictable during the best of times.

    Bore cutting is a great tool to have in the toolbox, I just don't use it much. For me the least amount of time spent at the stump the better. Bore cutting can take awhile.
     
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  3. Westboastfaller

    Westboastfaller Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Lol... You changed the question.
    Not a rule of thumb biz.
    and its not about just lean. Age..how quick it grows anualy. Fast growing younger fir on the hill with good top sag will need a quick ring on the sap wood and hit them fast with the dogs...err I mean that's what I do with a sharp fast saw. (California they should be stronger than BC/WA at a younger age. Are you production falling? Turn then off the lean 45° to 60 ish is an option. If its junk I may just treat it like a buck and two cut it if its a few feet dial and under leaning hard BUT always ring out the sapwood ..AND as a rule with older timber incase there is something unseen. Lots of snow press arches over access roads small dia I always two cut or turn them hard off lean for less clean up.
    Lots of ways that are safe.
     
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  4. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    They are all dead. It’s a dozen trees I’m clearing. Only one is a leaner. I’m thinking I’ll coos bay the leaner after having done a bit more research.
     
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  5. Philbert

    Philbert Chainsaw Enthusiast

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    Interesting.

    Philbert
     
  6. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    You mean plunge cut? or is plung cut something else?
     
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  7. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    Thanks for the spelling correction
     
  8. Westboastfaller

    Westboastfaller Addicted to ArboristSite

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    A lot less weight and split potential if its drying out. Cut your sap wood and be in the habit of taking it off the lean when possible. Kind of like using gears and brakes.
    Why not have two things in your favor.
    Since you are inexpirenced.
     
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  9. scheffa

    scheffa ArboristSite Operative

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    What do you mean by 2 cut west!?
     
  10. northmanlogging

    northmanlogging The gyppo's gyppo

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    To the OP, rarely use plunge cut, even on hard leaners, coos bay mostly.

    The bore and strap only if I feel the need to vacate in a hurry, sketchy tips, widowmakers etc
     
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  11. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    Seems like Coos bay will be the right approach on this one. Thanks for the feedback
     
  12. 2dogs

    2dogs Addicted to ArboristSite

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    All the trees are dead? That makes a huge difference, and are they really dead or just mostly dead. Is the bark sloughing off, are there still needles on the tree, is the sap wood rotten? What is the diameter?

    Watch out for widow makers, don't pound wedges hard enough to shake the tree and break off a limb. Shave off the bark at least on the backcut and palm the wedges in snug. I like a deep face cut, like 1/3 the diameter. You need a foolproof escape route or two. Watch the top. Remember the center of gravity will shift down the tree as gravity takes over for the tree's natural circulation, hence the deep face. If the trees are small, say less that 24" dbh consider an open face notch to make sure the face doesn't close and hold the tree. Never fully trust the hinge wood on a dead tree but don't stop cutting just because the tree wiggles and shifts a couple inches. Oh and have a well thought out escape routes and be ready to drop and run.
     
  13. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    The bark is not falling off, but there is no needles left. One has a clear widow maker I need to be mindful of. From what I can tell there is no rot. I live in big tree country (Coastal redwood Forest) so these firs actually seem some what small to me (biggest I estimate to be 35” diameter, 30’ tall), and yes a good escape path is definitely on my mind, as I will likely have to use a trimmer to get the brush out of my way. Also to have space to work once they are on the ground.
     
  14. 2dogs

    2dogs Addicted to ArboristSite

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    35" dbh but only 30' tall? Are these trees broken off, aka stobs? You will probably spend more time clearing an escape route than actually falling a tree. Such is like, eh?
     
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  15. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    Actually I was thinking circumference. I just measured a similar size tree in my yard. 4.5 up its 56” round so gives a dbh of just under 18?

    You are right though I will spend more time clearing than falling.
     
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  16. catbuster

    catbuster Catskinner. And buster.

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    Go to method for dead wood, especially dead leaners.

    Anything alive I usually will use another method.
     
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  17. madhatte

    madhatte It's The Water Staff Member

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    I plunge cut some bucking, but seldom falling. There's a whole lot of methods, mostly outlined above, that are faster and safer. It's a thing I know how to do but I want to spend as little time at the stump as possible so I don't fart around with unnecessary fiddling.
     
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  18. 2dogs

    2dogs Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I can not match Nate's eloquence.
     
  19. Squatch

    Squatch ArboristSite Operative

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    Highly appreciated.
     
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  20. Westboastfaller

    Westboastfaller Addicted to ArboristSite

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    sorry I missed your post.
    I wasn't very clear a all.
    I was talking about a couple different methods of 'two cutting'. one was about using a single cut undercut on the small trees under 6" than have been arched permenitly and snow load spruce conifers of same size. It still has to be done fast. They snap with a great deal more force with an undercut as soon as you hit the back cut and it can kick the saw out of your hands. Doesn't feel so good on the hands. Anyway the saw cerf undercut helps this in that Region. Site specific anyway.
    Not really relevant for advice here in those terms.

    The other is a modified triangle or Diamond cut or what they call Coos Bay
    kind of like the hand saw days.
    Now your cuts are 90° off the lean with a strip of holding wood from top to bottom. If its got secondary lean to the side then I may try with the side undercut with various degrees to the side. If I know its going to break and I don't have a pusher tree to keep it sidehill then I'll go with the two cut and let it peel off down the hill. i always cut into the back of the stump close to the cut so it can't rip the back of the stump out and club me or snag me. The problem with going with the primary lean is it is usually hard to reach and it likely won't take an undercut there in many cases with big trees that often can have rot and they have contorted already not to mention the barber chair

    problem which has now been mitigated anyway.
     
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