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I-beam washers/beam sliders

Discussion in 'Firewood, Heating and Wood Burning Equipment' started by FlyingDutchman, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. FlyingDutchman

    FlyingDutchman Row Seatin'

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    Home built splitter with a 6" I beam. Flat pusher, static wedge.

    Currently using 4 bolts tightened up with flat stock on them, the bolts constantly loosen up and the I beam and cylinders are talking a pounding from flex and abrasion/binding.

    Besides installing beam washers to be able to tighten it up, are there any standard bearing or greasing systems that are used for this method? Installed grease zerks or other while I have it apart?
     
  2. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    I think it's called an H beam that has flat webs?

    I have several big ones I bought at an auction, like 16x16 beam with 1" web.

    Could always tack weld the nuts.

    We had the 4 front axle pivot bolts keep coming loose on our 648D skidder. Dunno why. Loctited them and put the 1" impact and still would back out after a while.

    I welded a bar across 2 bolts and it's been fine since.
     
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  3. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    BTW been brainstorming on preventing pusher wear.

    Have about 2300hrs on my processor and it's getting sloppy.
     
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  4. homemade

    homemade Certified Chainsaw Tester

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    Is that 4 bolts total or 4 per side? You could be stretching the bolts over time and that’s why they loosen up. Try marking the head with a paint pen and see if it is actually rotating or not. Maybe ordering some special grade 8 or higher bolts and red locktite them bitches on.

    And check to see how much slop or gap you have between you sliding pusher an the beam itself. It should be a close gap maybe 1/16 or less. If you have significant play, it will put more force on the rear bolts as the ram puts a rotational force on the slider portion of your pusher. Basically putting all stretch force in the rear bolts.
     
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  5. VirginiaIron

    VirginiaIron ArboristSite Operative

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    I've seen at least one manufacturer indicate they have no metal to metal contact on the slide. I do not remember what material they use. My one slide has a factory zerk fitting on each side of the slide. I built my other slide and it is longer than the wedge that sits on top. This design was intended to reduce stressors and keep the slide as parallel to the beam as possible. The lower flanges extend almost to the center web. No grease fittings, just a dab of grease on the underside of both sides of the T. Most underside flanges I have seen extend for only a portion of the T and in my opinion equates to less surface area and more wear over time. EDIT: There is just enough clearance that I can move my slide by hand when not connected to the ram.
    Capture+_2019-06-03-06-11-20.png
     
  6. muddstopper

    muddstopper Addicted to ArboristSite

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    If the bolts are working loose and not strechting, you can drill a hole thru the corner of the nuts and use tiewire to twist lock the all the nuts together so they cant turn. I suspect strectching. the forces put on those bolts splitting can be pretty huge. Grade8 bolts and proper torque will help. Not to confuse torque with tight. Torque will prestretch the bolts, tight might or might not prestrectch the bolts. It depends on everybodies definition of tight. To put clearance between my pusher slide and hbeam. I use a piece of flatbar the same thickness of the beam as a spacer. Tight, the pusher will lock down on the beam, to get the clearance needed, I cut open a coke can and and made it into a shim to place between the spacer and the pusher bottom. That gives about .014 clearance between the beam and the pusher slide. I just pour a little bar oil on the beam whenever it starts looking dry. The longer the slide, the less it will tilt when pushing under load. One other thing I have been considering if I ever have to build another splitter is making some sort of rubber wiper to keep the dirt and chips from working under the slide. I just havent figured out how to mount it on the slide and not destroying it when I split wood with it.
     
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  7. FlyingDutchman

    FlyingDutchman Row Seatin'

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    I'm dealing with a bevel profile I beam. So tightening the bolts just bends them and they loosen.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/standard-washers look for the beveled I beam washers. Kind of explains the dilemma of the bolts bending loosening.

    I don't know if you put brass or poly sheets in there as soft wear pieces on top and underside of the T or what.
     
  8. VirginiaIron

    VirginiaIron ArboristSite Operative

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    My lower flanges are mating the upper slide so the flat surfaces add strength. If all you have is the bolts holding it, I think your connection is continually moving, increasing stretch, fatigue, and the possibility of breakage. I would not add those shims; I would sand the flange to mate the beam and remain mated to your upper slide.
     
  9. homemade

    homemade Certified Chainsaw Tester

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    Take some good pics of your set up. You shouldn’t need those I beam washers. There should be a plate that will wrap around to the bottom side of the I beam flange. I hope you do have aforementioned plate and are not trying to hold the sliding pusher with just the wedge washers.
     
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  10. sb47

    sb47 Addicted to ArboristSite

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    Use back up nuts or a castle nut with a carter pin to keep things tight. As for lubrication, all the splitters I have used never needed lubrication on the beam. Big John went from rollers to teflon slides on all there tree spades and they lasted a very long time even with dirt getting on the slides.
     
  11. VirginiaIron

    VirginiaIron ArboristSite Operative

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    Yeah, we need a photo or three
     
  12. homemade

    homemade Certified Chainsaw Tester

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    [​IMG]

    Not saying this is the best or worst design, but this describes the plate wrapping around the beam.
     
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  13. VirginiaIron

    VirginiaIron ArboristSite Operative

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  14. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    The issue with using oil or grease though is it trapping dirt and making the issue worse.
     
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  15. ChoppyChoppy

    ChoppyChoppy Addicted to ArboristSite

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    If I HAD to use an I beam (beam with tapered webs) vs an H beam I would probably add a strip of material to the web to make it flat. If a person wanted to get fancy they could machine a wedged piece, but just using flat stock and welding up the gap would probably work just as well too.

    I'm guessing your issue with the bolts coming loose is from the pusher "wrap" running on an angle to the top plate.


    Do you have any photos?
     
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  16. FlyingDutchman

    FlyingDutchman Row Seatin'

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    Looking like Virginiairon and homeade are using H beams, I have an I beam, correct.

    It was pouring rain this morning and didn't get back home before dark. Will grab pics tonight.
     
  17. VirginiaIron

    VirginiaIron ArboristSite Operative

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    Yeah, mine is an H with no tapered flange. Now my previous slide, built ca. '82 used bent and welded stock and lasted all this time. You could weld your flanges at the angle you need and cut them off, if ever needed.
     
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  18. FlyingDutchman

    FlyingDutchman Row Seatin'

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  19. VirginiaIron

    VirginiaIron ArboristSite Operative

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    It looks like you are missing your flat stock (spacer). Just use a piece of flat stock the thickness of the beam drilled to match the holes. (Edit: or whatever thickness it requires to bring the flanges close to/parallel to the flange.) Tighten it up so the flat surfaces are tight and you are done.
     
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  20. FlyingDutchman

    FlyingDutchman Row Seatin'

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    That flat stock is there, in the middle between the bottom plate and the pusher at beam height. Rear two bolts bent, bolts loose after a bunch of splitting, retainer plate (bottom) drooping a bit.

    The beveled washers can rbe put on the face of the lower plate to follow the beam contour to allow torque from the bolt to be spread flat across the bolt head or nut and reduce bending force on one side of the bolt.

    I'm thinking of also padding the bottom of the pusher and the faces of the bottom plates with bearing grade moly impregnated nylon plastic.

    Eventually, this splitter will have a lot of upgrades so it will rip, and right now the pusher binds a occasionally and walks over the place unless you tighten the bolts every hour.
     

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