CWME
ArboristSite Guru
With a Pie shaped wedge I can definately see that being true. With a 1" wide wedge that is sharp nothing will stop the splitter. Let it dull up and all bets are off though.
Log Splitter - How Many Tons is Enough?
- Thread starter leeave96
- Start date
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With a Pie shaped wedge I can definately see that being true. With a 1" wide wedge that is sharp nothing will stop the splitter. Let it dull up and all bets are off though.
That TSC 35 ton logsplitter has a 5" cylinder and 16 gpm pump - so it's not a real 35 ton push. More like 25 ton.
BlueRidgeMark
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yep.
But I think they all lie pretty much the same, so it's still valid for comparison.
There might be some exceptions, but the more common brands all seem to use the same fudge recipe.
I'd like to see them publish the operating pressure and piston area. Then there's no fudge room.
IllinoisJim
ArboristSite Member
splitter and speed...
I have also been contemplating how the ratings can be so high and figured they must be fudged somehow. Seems like every industry does that with their numbers. Have been trying to decide on 4 or 5" cylinder. Probably will go for 4" for better speed and to keep from bending anything. I did want to make a slip on T knife for the big stuff.
For speed the prince "rapid extend" valve looks like an easy upgrade path. It has an extra position that feeds pressure to both sides of the piston so it extends like a piston the size of the rod - very fast. When it hits the block and stops you go to the regular position and get full power. Doesn't speed up retract but for one man operation it doesn't matter as much. Anyone used this valve that can tell us how well they like it?
My system is 8 GPM and if the valve works well I may go with less than PTO speed on the tractor which will be even less flow.
I have also been contemplating how the ratings can be so high and figured they must be fudged somehow. Seems like every industry does that with their numbers. Have been trying to decide on 4 or 5" cylinder. Probably will go for 4" for better speed and to keep from bending anything. I did want to make a slip on T knife for the big stuff.
For speed the prince "rapid extend" valve looks like an easy upgrade path. It has an extra position that feeds pressure to both sides of the piston so it extends like a piston the size of the rod - very fast. When it hits the block and stops you go to the regular position and get full power. Doesn't speed up retract but for one man operation it doesn't matter as much. Anyone used this valve that can tell us how well they like it?
My system is 8 GPM and if the valve works well I may go with less than PTO speed on the tractor which will be even less flow.
The Prince data specifies a maximum of 4gpm inlet flow.
i agree wholeheartedly. my homebuilt has 30 ton of force--and the one thing that stopped it cold?????? a 48 dia chunk of fresh cut sap oozing cottonwood!!!!!!! surprised me, as nothings stopped it before,including a 52 in dia ash that was green!!!! some knarly stringy wood will surprise yah!!!
i got a modified 16ton ramsplitter. its only not been able to split a handful of logs in the 4 or 5 years ive owned it.
I agree any splitter can be stopped. I have the 22ton Huskee and only very occasionally come across a piece it wont split. Usually can split the round that stops the splitter by repositioning the round. For the money I'd buy the same splitter again. Just wish it had a lager gas tank 
Oldtimer
Addicted to ArboristSite
How many tons?
More. Just plain MORE. No such thing as "too much" where wood splitter tonnage is concerned.
More. Just plain MORE. No such thing as "too much" where wood splitter tonnage is concerned.
Do you know what their pressure relief was set at?
Some mfg. set it at 3400 psi which is well above the 2500 previously stated.
burdens surplus center has a tech help page with all sorts of plug in formulas and information. So instead of using pi x r x r x psi. I used their plug in formula in calculators - force and speed.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/techhelp.asp?catname=
https://www.surpluscenter.com/techhelp.asp?catname=
Even a 3" cylinder with a 2-stage pump will seldom stall out with a 6.5 Hp engine driving it. Take a look at this table:
Note that the bigger the cylinder, the larger the pump and motor required--and that usually means more fuel. You will also increase cycle time with behemoth machines and that will slow you down with the smaller logs that are easy to split. So, it's give and take.
Note that the bigger the cylinder, the larger the pump and motor required--and that usually means more fuel. You will also increase cycle time with behemoth machines and that will slow you down with the smaller logs that are easy to split. So, it's give and take.
AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
Every body is talking about "how many tons" on a splitter...and no one talks about how to reduce "wedge friction".....
Most std splitters I have seen do not have very well designed splitting wedges....
They are to wide/tall...see a comparison of axes...
There is a reason why the Fiskars Super Splitter Axe perform better than other axes.....DESIGN.....
This design technology should be applied on splitters too....that way, power could be used for increasing speed and cycle time instead of tonnage...
You do not need a 8-12" tall wedge to split a log....A 2-4" razor sharp wedge will crack a log more easily than a dull 10" one....
Another thing is that a splitter wedge need to be as sharp as possible.....if you can cut your self on a splitter wedge...it is definitely subject to sharpening
Log splitter designers have to start thinking "outside the box".....
EDIT:
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AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
Even a 3" cylinder with a 2-stage pump will seldom stall out with a 6.5 Hp engine driving it. Take a look at this table:
Note that the bigger the cylinder, the larger the pump and motor required--and that usually means more fuel. You will also increase cycle time with behemoth machines and that will slow you down with the smaller logs that are easy to split. So, it's give and take.
I am glad you are utilizing my tables Wood Doctor!
Here is another one on the same subject...
OK... let's say I'm listening... tel us how force and speed are related.
There is only ONE formula for "Tonnage" of splitting: Area of piston x PSI / 2000. You can achieve 30 tons with a 5" cylinder at 3000PSI or a 6" cylinder at 2100PSI. Cylinder size alone doesn't determine it. PSI alone doesn't either. And GPM has ZERO bearing on tonnage!
Cycle speed is determine by cylinder extension volume, cylinder retraction volume, pump speed and engine RPM. Cylinder volumes are a product of diameter and stroke length. The cycle time has ZERO to do with tonnage.
But... I am willing to learn. Clue me in...
Friction is a VERY minor consideration in the operation of a hydraulic splitter. The friction caused by the wedge is immeasurable compared to the TONNAGE we create. What you REALLY mean is that on most splitters, "the rate of separation of wood fibers caused by the angle of attack on the wedge exceeds the yield point of the wood". This is not friction. And this varies based on wood species, condition, temperature, moisture content, and many other variables.
Comparing a splitter to an axe is like comparing a Corvette to my F-350. Yes, the Corvette will get you there faster, but to accomplish the same amount of work (hauling 15,000# of firewood, for example), you will have to make MANY more trips (maybe a 30:1 ratio?)!
Power (HP) increases speed and cycle time, at the expense of fuel efficiency. Fluid pressure and increase in cylinder size increases tonnage. There is a reason we opt for a certain tonnage with hydraulic splitters... to separate wood fibers efficiently. There is NO reasonable way to transfer rotational inertia of an engine into linear speed of a wedge that anywhere near resembles the way an axe is used. The Fiskars works well because the potential energy of the axe head (mass x accelration) is applied instantaneously to a small area, creating a shock effect that the wood must respond to. There are splitters that use this concept (flywheel splitters like the Super Split) and they work GREAT! But hydraulics are designed to push the wedge through the wood, not shock it.
Statistically insignificant in the case of the wide wedges. Slightly significant for thinner ones. The wide wedges use the "inclined plane" concept to force the wood fibers apart. The thinner ones sometimes rely on a sheering process rather than a splitting process.
Super Split... Screw Split... multi-wedge... etc?
Not trying to pick a fight, but the OP's question was how much tonnage is enough...
There are some of us here with engineering backgrounds that have studied splitter designs for years. Does that mean there's no room for improvement? Nope... But if you are wanting to use hydraulics to do the splitting, then use them in a manner for whiuch their strengths can best be seen. The Fiskars idea is better suited to some sort of launch mechanism like the Super Split. I'll stick with "slowly" sheering the fibers, creating 6-8 pieces of firewood with each stroke, rather than repeatedly beating on the wood, hoping it will submit at some point.
Hey, I think you got it. That Burdens tech page is pretty nice.
No... I'm still clueless to how you think you could calculate splitting force using cylinder size and pump speed...
Teach me Master Yoda...
Burdens webpage - Tech Help has on the left side of the page Hydraulics, sub category Calculators, sub category Force & Speed. On that page are calculators for force and speed. Two separate calculators not one. Guess I wasn't clear. They also have a lot of other interesting info.
https://www.surpluscenter.com/techhelp.asp?catname=hydraulic
https://www.surpluscenter.com/techhelp.asp?catname=hydraulic
