Ahhhh... now the light bulb is coming on.
Actually, the calculators they have are simplified versions of the spreadsheets I run.
I just wasn't seeing the connection in your comments to the table that was presented...
Log Splitter - How Many Tons is Enough?
- Thread starter leeave96
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Ahhhh... now the light bulb is coming on.
Actually, the calculators they have are simplified versions of the spreadsheets I run.
I just wasn't seeing the connection in your comments to the table that was presented...
AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
well...gotta be careful before judg'n to fast....LOL....
Love you 2FatGuys......be back w u l8er
well...gotta be careful before judg'n to fast....LOL....
Love you 2FatGuys......be back w u l8er
No judging... just need some 'splaining...
Trust me.. I got the hydraulic principles down pat... LOL
AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
Believe ya...wud just be inneresting to hear your inner thots about'em principles.....
AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
Would be cool to hear some of your thoughts on them principles...
BTW...what's your engineering credentials you mentioned earlier....??
I have a construction degree and a forest engineer degree....also a forestry/logging teacher degree...taught logging and forestry for almost 25 years...
Haywire Haywood
Fiscal Conservative Social Retard
Actually, all things being equal, engine RPM is the only thing that will (edit) decrease the cycle time.
A 9 hp engine turning a 16gpm pump at 3600rpm will give a faster cycle time than a 200 hp engine turning the same pump at 2000rpm.
Ian
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Cambium
ArboristSite Guru
It's not the ton that matters, its the cycle time.
27 Ton has proved to me to be the max strength anyone needs. I had rock cement ELM it handled it like a champ! Honda Motor is probably another reason.
And just to give you an idea what each peice of Elm almost looked like...
Pile of Elm.
27 Ton has proved to me to be the max strength anyone needs. I had rock cement ELM it handled it like a champ! Honda Motor is probably another reason.
And just to give you an idea what each peice of Elm almost looked like...
Pile of Elm.
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Cambium
ArboristSite Guru
P.S - And if I had to I would of course get a higher tonnage...Maybe 32 with a faster cycle time... But not less than 27. 27 seems to be "enough"
OK.. busted... in my haste to make the points I was making, I mistyped this sentence. It should have read: "Power (HP) increases speed and DECREASES cycle time, at the expense of fuel efficiency BY ALLOWING A LARGER PUMP TO REACH MAXIMUM PRESSURE WITHOUT BOGGING DOWN."
It would help if I went back and read it before posting. I'll fix it.
But you are making the same point I was attempting to make. In hydraulics, power allows the generation of fluid pressure at a given GPM. Increasing power just to increase speed means using a larger pump. It's impractical to try to use a 22GPM pump with a 2" cylinder so that you can try to approach the speeds necessary to use a Fiskars-like wedge. The smaller cylinder won't impart enough pressure at the wedge to have the same effect as swinging the Fiskars. I don't see how a fluid application of power can simulate a suplemented free fall and impact. The delivery of potential energy is completely different.
Would be cool to hear some of your thoughts on them principles...
BTW...what's your engineering credentials you mentioned earlier....??
I have a construction degree and a forest engineer degree....also a forestry/logging teacher degree...taught logging and forestry for almost 25 years...
You just did... I'm waiting to hear how to make that Fiskars hydraulicly split 32" Hickory.
I'm not getting into a battle of shingles. I just want to hear how you would make it work.
Rate vs. Time
The higher RPM simply drives the pump faster and forces more fluid through the cylinder and the hoses at a faster rate. However, if the resistance force becomes too great, the RPM of the engine drops while trying to maintain the force and the log may win the battle. Big motors can hold that RPM with larger resistance forces and little ones lose it sooner.
In my book, the ultimate effectiveness of a log splitter is how quickly it gets the job done for a given quantity of wood that you need to split. Sometimes the splitters with smaller cylinders and horsepower can get the job done faster than monsters with slow-moving cylinders--provided that they don't bog down.
Technique is also important, so we need to give some credit to the operator. I usually save the snarly crotchwood wood for last after the easier logs are split first. With experience, you can often tell in advance what logs and species are tougher than others. Wood dryness also has a lot to do with it along with dozens of other factors that rarely show up in books. Experience is most of the ball game.
Ian, be careful of termnology. Increasing the cycle time means decreasing the rate (speed) at which the piston moves. When you decrease the cycle time, the rate (speed) increases. I understand what you are trying to say, but others may become confused and this has been a confusion factor in the past when discussed on our forum. Maybe it's a weakness of the English language.
The higher RPM simply drives the pump faster and forces more fluid through the cylinder and the hoses at a faster rate. However, if the resistance force becomes too great, the RPM of the engine drops while trying to maintain the force and the log may win the battle. Big motors can hold that RPM with larger resistance forces and little ones lose it sooner.
In my book, the ultimate effectiveness of a log splitter is how quickly it gets the job done for a given quantity of wood that you need to split. Sometimes the splitters with smaller cylinders and horsepower can get the job done faster than monsters with slow-moving cylinders--provided that they don't bog down.
Technique is also important, so we need to give some credit to the operator. I usually save the snarly crotchwood wood for last after the easier logs are split first. With experience, you can often tell in advance what logs and species are tougher than others. Wood dryness also has a lot to do with it along with dozens of other factors that rarely show up in books. Experience is most of the ball game.
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AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
This is why some small engine manufacturers have stopped using HP to rate engines, because torque is a more relevant number, when it comes to calculating force.....but basically both numbers live together in an eternal marriage...HP=Torque x RPM
Haywire Haywood
Fiscal Conservative Social Retard
Yep, I got the terminology backwards... LOL... But you know what I think I thought I said.
Ian
Ian
Theoretical HP = (TorquexRPM)/5252
with the torque expressed in Ft-Lb...
And the engine manufacturer's didn't drop HP rating voluntarily. It was a result of them over rating engines and being sued over it in multiple cases.
AKKAMAAN
ArboristSite Guru
I think I'll start a new thread about it!!
24" diameter or length?
If diameter, I would say without knowing all the specifics of your machine that it should be no problem. You may have to work around it but you can get it done.
If length, you need at least 24" throw.
I split butt ends that are easily 30" - 36" in diameter all the time. I believe I am putting out around 14 honest tons with my machine.
good luck,
dave
If diameter, I would say without knowing all the specifics of your machine that it should be no problem. You may have to work around it but you can get it done.
If length, you need at least 24" throw.
I split butt ends that are easily 30" - 36" in diameter all the time. I believe I am putting out around 14 honest tons with my machine.
good luck,
dave
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I don't have the answer for you but I can tell you that there are a lot of 12 ton splitters made in the 60's,70's,80's that split a lot of wood. I have a yard machine 27 ton splitter that I am happy with. It splits wood, that is what I need it to do. Before I purchased mine I used its sister splitter MTD 27ton with a Briggs engine (I have a Honda) it split a few cord of shagbark hickory and some really tough Cherry most of the wood was big ~ 36" diameter. It split it all, it wasn't super fast but it all got split. I can say that the only thing I love about my splitter is the Honda, it starts second pull after sitting out in the cold and it is really quite compared to the Briggs.
If I fount the TSC 22 ton on sale I would definitely buy it with out worrying about it not being able to split everything. With a little patience and repositioning the wood you should be able to split it, if not you can noodle it a bit and then split it the rest of the way.
walkerdogman85
ArboristSite Operative
I agree I split some 30+" fresh cut hickory yesterday, it was my trial run on my home built splitter. 4" x30" cylinder with a 28 gpm pump running about 1800 rpm at 2000 psi split it all if it dirt I just repositioned it and it went with speed to! I plan on turning up psi at the valve and possibly running at a higher rpm but the 20 hp kohler is loud!!
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