My TS400 concrete saw rebuild

[alexcagle]

The one piece hose will work, or is that your old one on the right?
The elbow connector is part # 4224 122 3900, and the hose is # 0000 100 0526 which is Stihl 3.1x5.7 fuel hose, cut to 87mm long.
I keep a bunch of 90° Elbows, and I just cut the old hose above the tank and stick the 90°ell in it with a new straight hose on the other barb to take it to the carb. The part inside the tank hardly ever fail.

 

[MattG]

Yes Alex, the old one is on the right. When it bends arounds from the tank under the carb, small surface cracks are visible. Whilst not being completely shagged - it could still do with replacement at some stage.

 

[MattG]

Anyway it's 5.25 on Christmas morning on my side of the planet, so I'm just checking AS before I drive everyone to the in-laws house. I currently have the filter cover in a sink soaking it's last congealed dust off. I might (time permitting) put what I can back together on Boxing Day and give it a test fire.

 

[MattG]

Well it's Boxing Day over here in Sunny England and this is the TS400 after the carb service (diaphragms, gaskets, spring, needle, and good clean up) and after the kill switch mechanism was fixed up.

The cool thing being that the kill switch function just works after bunging the shroud back down without any level of finesse....and now the saw restarts without the need for WOT. Here it is with no carb adjustments (I just set the H and L screws both at 1 turn - I fine tuned later):



Result!

 

[alexcagle]

Looks good.
I've never actually seen one of the earliest TS400 oem carbs with a High speed needle adjustment. Most only have the low speed needle adjustment, and a fixed jet with no adjustment on the High side.

I don't recommend starting one without the fan cover on. Dangerous.

Don't forget the tab inside the muffler hole. If you rock it back and forth it will break off. If it's not done so already.
Also its a good idea to shake the muffler and listen for debris inside.

 

[MattG]

Looks good.
I've never actually seen one of the earliest TS400 oem carbs with a High speed needle adjustment. Most only have the low speed needle adjustment, and a fixed jet with no adjustment on the High side.

I don't recommend starting one without the fan cover on. Dangerous.

Don't forget the tab inside the muffler hole. If you rock it back and forth it will break off. If it's not done so already.
Also its a good idea to shake the muffler and listen for debris inside.

Hi Alex,
Yup, it certainly has H side adj. as you can see in one of my pics right here: #24 I may have to take some advise from you some time about how to adjust this since the manual (I think) reports the presence of a rev limiter.

Yeah, my bad starting w/o the fan cover on. I only noticed/remembered midway through that clip.... I was in a hurry to throw parts back on before we lost the sun for the day. It will go back on very soon!

I must admit that the saw already feels much nicer, that carb/filter service has really helped. Later in that I fine tuned the L+idle screw (in much the same way as I do my ms341) and it now seems lovely, nice idle, restarts and response.

re. your comment on the muffler, well I'll probably pull that off next and then we can decide whether to change out the piston etc. Better get on to ordering that elbow too, and see if my parts peeps have woken up again after Xmas.

 

[MattG]

Ok, played a bit with the TS this savvy. First started to get the muffler off:

The piston looked ok to be fair....I could still see very slight machining marks and some very very slight vertical wearlines. My photography was even lamer than usual but here goes anyway:



So for me, even with my scary levels of OCD, I really don't think that I should be changing out this piston for now....
And now a shot inside the muffler, I assume that this is the tab which Alex mentioned a while back:

Alex suggested I rip this bad boy out, as it can cause trouble if it breaks off. From what I can see of it, it looks fairly well fixed, but anyway I'll try to give it a wiggle tomorrow perhaps.
Another piccy, this time with the machine number, and the numerals "1996", which if they really are the year of manufacture, then this saw has not done a great deal of miles....or a had a recent rebuild....but given the state of the carb internals, I'm not so sure about that. Alex may be able to comment more on their wear patterns.

And finally a close up of the tank vent, which looks a bit different from the schematic in the manual:

I can't see any evidence of pipe (25) connected to the vent nozzle, or (23) the circular grommet (instead I see an oval shaped seal type thing). I can only assume that the vent mechanism is built into that white thing....perhaps a grub screw is screwed into that nozzle. @alexcagle - you see anything like this before....since I certainly have no schematic for it.

 

[alexcagle]

This is your tank. This is the best illustration I could find.



1 4223 351 0510 Tank housing, left 1 53.1999
2 4223 353 9200 Grommet 1 53.1999
3 4223 350 5800 Tank vent 1 4 - 10 53.1999
4 0000 I00 0627 Hose 3.1x5.7x65 mm, R3 1 (D) 53.1999
0000 930 2803 Hose 3.1x5.7 mm x 1 m, R3 1 (A,B)
5 9517 003 5000 Cylindrical roller 3x5 1 53.1999
6 1120 358 8105 Vent insert 1 53.1999
7 4114 353 1600 Valve 1 53.1999
8 0000 358 1810 Filter 1 53.1999
9 4223 353 2300 Cap 1 53.1999
10 0000 358 1811 Filter 1 53.1999

 

[alexcagle]

That's the earliest TS400 I've ever seen.
I saw one starting 141xxxxxx once.

 

[MattG]

That's the earliest TS400 I've ever seen.

Well you Americans may have the BIGGEST of everything....but it did all happen over in England FIRST!

Well humour aside, thanks a million for the details of the tank. You wouldn't happen to have that piccy in a PDF would you? What about you @HarleyT or @big t double - I know you work in parts ?

I did look up a couple of those part numbers....and surprisingly they are on my parts peeps DB.

 

[alexcagle]

I have several of those old type vent assemblies, just in case I need one.
I'll see about the hose and grub screw on them and get a pic for you.
Those type vents were an old design, and prone to leaking.
Although they had a crude plastic media filter, the intake air was not piped from the clean side of the air filter box like the later design is. It took in air from the fuel filler cap area, which as you know, is nasty.
Even the newer design vents have to be replaced every now and then because they get grit inside the rubber "duck bill" check valve and can't seal.
The present TS420 model places the fuel vent right next to the air filter, which is a real problem here in the hot summer time conditions in the US.
The fuel can seep out of the vent, soaking the air filter and creating a flooded condition.

 

[MattG]

I have several of those old type vent assemblies, just in case I need one.
I'll see about the hose and grub screw on them and get a pic for you.
Those type vents were an old design, and prone to leaking.
Although they had a crude plastic media filter, the intake air was not piped from the clean side of the air filter box like the later design is. It took in air from the fuel filler cap area, which as you know, is nasty.
Even the newer design vents have to be replaced every now and then because they get grit inside the rubber "duck bill" check valve and can't seal.
The present TS420 model places the fuel vent right next to the air filter, which is a real problem here in the hot summer time conditions in the US.
The fuel can seep out of the vent, soaking the air filter and creating a flooded condition.

Thanks Alex, for looking for tank piccies... appreciate it.

Well, I've not even press/vac tested the tank yet.... I'm currently "busy" outside sawing wood.... (translation playing with my 064) My parts peeps haven't sent the fuel pipe elbow yet so not much to do on the TS right now.....

So I'm guessing that you're in agreement that there aint no point me changing out that piston what with the look of it + 160psi ???

Re. the fuel vent: perhaps I could improvise - my 064 just has a simple pipe + grub screw, maybe I could just arrange something like this if I ever need to?

 

[HarleyT]

 

[MattG]

View attachment 547025

Thanks HarleyT you're a dude.....

If you were round my place right now I'd probably give you a beer:


and a glass of the Chocolate Liquor that me and the wife and kids have just tried:

thanks again!

 

[MattG]

@alexcagle
I know you said that you don't tend to see the earlier TS400s....but if you ever do...I've just been sent some early PDFs from the Manual Threads guys...so if you want a PDF you can always PM me.

 

[alexcagle]

Happy New Year!

 

[MattG]

View attachment 547172
Happy New Year!

And back to you Alex!

 

[MattG]

Hi @alexcagle

Yup I'm still alive and working on the TS - in fact I've got get it off my workbench pretty damn soon . I bent off that muffler tab last night (the steel was in good nick and it took ages!) In the next night or 2 I'll sort the fuel pipe out, as I have the new elbow joint now. The tedium will be getting the correct length of straight regular hose cut without too much trail and error. Any ideas?

I'll take your advice my friend and not press/vac test the engine.... so hopefully once I've done the fuel pipe it should just be a case of testing the tank/vent etc. before I throw it all back together ready for another 20 years of perfect service to humankind!

later dude
Matt

 

[alexcagle]

The hose is # 0000 100 0526 -which is Stihl 3.1x5.7 R3 fuel hose, cut to 87mm long.
However, I find it's less likely to kink once it gets heated up, if you cut it a little shorter than 87mm (to minimize the radius).
Remember to put the straight hose on the elbow first, then poke it in the fuel hose bung-holio.
....sorry..... Had to..... too much Beavis and Butthead.

 

[MattG]

Hey Man,

Yeah I had that hose already....and I guessed the length by comparing it to the old 1 piece one. May have too much radius there, who knows, but certainly a big improvement. I got impatient last night and throw all except the cutting end back together. I forgot the vent tests - but seeing as it never had a "I can't get enough fuel" venting issue I'm not to bothering (yet ).

Thanks for all your advice so far.... and yeah I used to love Beavis and Butthead. They used to show them on Brit TV, oh must be near 25 years back straight after an insane late night music show we had called "The Word". Watching them rounded off many a drunken friday evening with the rest of the "posse"!

Matt