Roper 3.7 tear down and rebuild

[Opihi59]

Didn't have one when I disassembled (that is a pre-disassembly photo) but it will have one first thing tomorrow once I get back on it. I have a box-O'-washers I can sort thru. Thanks. Then will back out that adjustment screw coming thru the grommit 1/4 to 1/2 a turn. It's beer time now.

Any thoughts on this photo? Is this "original" or has it been modified? There is a sharp edge to it (hidden under the knot) that is eating starter cords and I can't believe it would be factory. Of course if it isn't factory, I'll be looking for a replacement.

 

[67L36Driver]

Didn't have one when I disassembled (that is a pre-disassembly photo) but it will have one first thing tomorrow once I get back on it. I have a box-O'-washers I can sort thru. Thanks. Then will back out that adjustment screw coming thru the grommit 1/4 to 1/2 a turn. It's beer time now.

Any thoughts on this photo? Is this "original" or has it been modified? There is a sharp edge to it (hidden under the knot) that is eating starter cords and I can't believe it would be factory. Of course if it isn't factory, I'll be looking for a replacement.

Let's call the flat washer a post-production fix, weather it had one originally or not.

How wide is the groove on that pulley? The original is about 9/32" which is way too wide.

That pulley may be another post-production fix and they shure needed it! The early Roper and the Homie XL-100 series has a somewhat undersize pulley (about 3/4" on the diameter). The smaller pulley combined with the displacement (60cc) make them a 'hard to pull over' engine. So much so that I've broken pull ropes and sheared knots off the end.

The Roper is especially bad as the groove is too wide for the rope and under tension the rope pulls down against itself and jams in the groove making it harder to pull than it should be.

Like this:

View attachment 202204

If the groove width is 1/8"-5/32" I would leave it as is.

Use your die grinder or Dremmel to chamfer and smoothe the sharp edges of the rope anchor. Cut or grind down the ends of those three screws flush with the nuts.

I have a 'D' handle on mine.

 

[Opihi59]

Without the compression release, it would be a real bear to turn that thing over, especially now with the increased compression from the new rings. It was annoying just to do the compression test adequately. I can see it now--a chainsaw with a kick starter. I am running the thickest rope I could find. Chances are I will polish the edges of the hole that cord runs thru, and will disassemble that component and see how if it looks post production factory mod, or if it was something my Dad did to it. I suppose that will be further down the line after I have it comfortably running again, or as soon as I pull off another knot on the starter cord.

I fashioned a washer for the oil flow plunger. I wanted a very thin washer, with small bearing surface/large center hole for its overall size. Ended up drilling out a small washer, then grinding a flat on one side and honing it down so it would clear the link, but not have too much thickness to cause the plunger to engage much earlier in the travel than originally. I installed that. In addition I looked at the carb as per 67L36Driver and yes, there is a blind hole to the right of the one adjustment screw, it appears that an earlier version of that carb had an adjustment there for the high speed jet. Apparently I can only adjust the low speed jet which is likely a bonus because that way I only have one adjustment I can screw up rather than two......

Roanoker instructed me to change the spark plug which led me to consider what is the correct plug. I looked on Searsparts for the orig PN which was Sears part 9409H which is a CJ6 plug, listed by them in the substitution window as 254/CJ6. I went to Championsparkplugs.com where they list for Craftsman 3.7 equipped chainsaws a CJ6 plug, so at least we're consistent. http://www.championsparkplugs.com/results_appOther.asp?otherMotiveID=60&mfid=2
The plug in the saw at present is a DJ8J, and looking in my other Roper 3.7 Craftsman it has a CJ8Y. I suppose I'll be heading out to find a pair of CJ6 sparkplugs. Interestingly the other Roper I got as a parts saw had been "overhauled" at a shop and had a brand new plug in it--the CJ8Y plug. That's the saw the owner bought but could not start it up again after an initial use so he sold it to me for $45. So if anyone has any special recommendations regarding spark plugs for these Ropers, let me know as I'll be holding off purchase until I hear back from the experts.

 

[Opihi59]

Finding I need more parts

I had today off, Federal Holiday, so I got to mess with the saw some more. I can start it and feather the throttle to keep it going bit it chokes out. I have noticed that it will "pull" the choke wide open by itself for some reason, like it literally sucks the butterfly open. I can keep it running longer if I block the choke at about the half to 3/4 point. So I fiddled with this for about 20 minutes and then pulled the knot off the starter cord again. More on that after spark plug photos.

Here is a side by side between the DJ8J plug that was in the saw, and the CJ8Y that was in the "parts Roper," it appears that the electrode sits further down inside the chamber on the CJ8Y, while the DJ8J has a conical sealing surface, the CJ8Y has the crush washers. I'm not real sure how that one came to be in the current saw (DJ8J) but it sure does not appear to be the right one just by eyeball.

So since I yanked off the cord (again, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr) , I figured it was time to go ahead and tear into the pull-start mechanism. The washer thing and the nuts with the pinched off screw threads had been done by my Dad as a repair. I was suspicious that this had been done as it did look like the way my Dad would have done things, but I couldn't be sure why until I pulled it all apart. The pulley had at some point fractured in half, and this was a repair. The threads had been left pinched as an "anti-come-loose" measure. Back when it had broken, it was very likely that parts were available new from Sears for this, but it was not his way to buy something new if he could spend an hour or 2 fabricating a repair and just drive on.

So at this point, let's just say I am still a black-hole of need. I'm looking now for a new pulley. I don't believe I will need the whole assembly though but that is the way I see them on ebay, and it seems a waste to buy that part and thereby deny someone else a puller cover, etc when all I need is the pulley. If you have one of them rattling around in your parts bin/drawer gathering cat hair, I need it. Send me a PM and we'll work out the details. In the meantime, I'll be lurking around on ebay, and moping about since I can't play with this rebuild project. In the meantime you can be sure I'll be whining about something else, and/or posting up some OT photos, such as how Pearl Harbor and West Oahu looks like off my Lanai.
Sun setting over Makakilo

 

[67L36Driver]

PM me your mailing address and you can have the pulley I got when I was going round and round with my Roper recoil. For nothing, as long as the postage don't get stupid.

That pulley fix exaserbated (sp.?) the rope pinch problem and is likely why it split in the first place.

Project saws very seldom have the correct spark plugs in them. Joe homeowner just picks something up at the local hardware store. I never go by what it has in there.

CJ6 is what you need. Don't use Champion plugs ending in Y (extended tip) unless they call for it. The extended tip can damage your piston or the piston will close up the gap to nothing and you wonder why it won't start.

Carl.

Why don't the spell check in this widow work????

 

[bluesportster02]

thanks for the great thread i am learning a lot a bought these saws. i didnt realize it had a compression release but i haven't done much with it since i bought it. i am going to have to start looking for a manual oiler button for mine so it will be complete. will any .325 chain work or do i need a special one for the power sharp

 

[Opihi59]

PM me your mailing address and you can have the pulley I got when I was going round and round with my Roper recoil. For nothing, as long as the postage don't get stupid.

PM sent, and of course thank you for all your help and support.

 

[Opihi59]

thanks for the great thread i am learning a lot a bought these saws. i didnt realize it had a compression release but i haven't done much with it since i bought it. i am going to have to start looking for a manual oiler button for mine so it will be complete. will any .325 chain work or do i need a special one for the power sharp

I'd go with the bar/chain combo I either put in your thread or PM'd to you. Seems I didn't have my "save sent messages" box clicked so I can't go back and check. I do have the info if you need it on the 18" bar/chain combo though, and sources.
That power sharp thing really just isn't that great of an option. I believe most people found it to be more of a nuisance than a benefit on their saws. A lot of those saws you'll see just has that attachment removed.
Thanks for the friend request, I am still learning how this forum works and am still learning the ropes.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

got one of those sitting in my shop right now. the saw is in pristine condition. was not used that much at all, but it does not have spark. the solid state ignition has gone out in it. do not know if i will sell it as a parts saw or try to find a ignition. mine pulls a 160# on the cylinder.

 

[Opihi59]

got one of those sitting in my shop right now. the saw is in pristine condition. was not used that much at all, but it does not have spark. the solid state ignition has gone out in it. do not know if i will sell it as a parts saw or try to find a ignition. mine pulls a 160# on the cylinder.

It's too good of a saw to leave in languish. You can find a replacement Ignition unit on ebay, there is at least one there currently. If I were you I'd fix it and enjoy it, it's worth it. Pristine?!! How could you think otherwise. Too bad you don't live in Hawaii.

Just noticed you're a Jeeper--that means you are accustomed to fixing things: JEEP--Just Empty Every Pocket/Just Expect Every Problem. I've got a YJ and TJ Rubicon in the driveway, and use the same screen name on Jeepforum.com

 

[Opihi59]

Photo for 67L36Driver. This is the blind hole on the Tilly carb, you can just see the dimple in this photo just below where the links cross.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

It's too good of a saw to leave in languish. You can find a replacement Ignition unit on ebay, there is at least one there currently. If I were you I'd fix it and enjoy it, it's worth it. Pristine?!! How could you think otherwise. Too bad you don't live in Hawaii.

Just noticed you're a Jeeper--that means you are accustomed to fixing things: JEEP--Just Empty Every Pocket/Just Expect Every Problem. I've got a YJ and TJ Rubicon in the driveway, and use the same screen name on Jeepforum.com

have a 03 rubi, maxed out on 36's, tt...etc.....
ya working on too many things....

 

[Opihi59]

Waiting for parts

About 2 wks ago I ordered a bar (180PXBD082) from Mel-co parts off ebay. Since they had it advertised and knowing that it wasn't available thru Oregon for something like the last 10 years, I was happy to buy it. Figured they'd be happy to send it to me as well since they advertised it. Since I found the bar, I went ahead and ordered Two chains from another source ( 20BPX074G ) which actually arrived yesterday. HOWEVER, today I got the email from Mel Co parts that they do not have this bar, and can't get it. Nice. So now I have 2 chains for a bar I do not have. I suppose if I had been unable to find that bar, I would have looked at other combos even a 20", but now being stuck with 2 nice 0.325 pitch 0.050 74 link chains, I am forced to hunt down this bar from a place that 1) actually has it when I buy it, and 2) will ship it here via some other modality than UPS which costs as much or more than any bar. That's why USPS is really the only way to get things to the tortured lump of rock I live on. I called a few places on the mainland today to find this bar, but since I am 6 time zones later than the Eastern US, nothing was open so this is a project for tomorrow. I am guessing I'll be able to find it.

I will also be looking for a bar/chain combo 18" preferably for the Roper Craftsman XXX770 I have, it requires a 180SKBD176 bar and a
20BPX072G chain. This is also 0.325 pitch 0.050 gauge. I am learning about bar mounts D082 vs D176 and honestly feel that with my die grinder and carbide bit I could make one into the other just by cutting the oil holes needed. However, it seems 0.325 pitch isn't as popular as it once was and 3/8 pitch has taken over.
Now I found I can get a bar with a nose I can change over from 3/8 to 0.325 pitch, but then no body seems to know what chain would work on it and I'd just have to hop on over to my specialty chainsaw shop and they'd fix me right up. They just don't seem to feature such a place in my time zone, that's the only problem there. It's not like Waikiki is the happening place for the timber industry.

Anybody know if/how I can change the drive sprocket over to one that would accept 3/8 pitch chain? This is breaking new ground for me.
At any rate, I am awaiting parts, I have a starter spool in the mail now and I'm getting all excited about pulling that outta the mailbox and getting the saw running. And yes, I know, I'm looking for a bar for a saw I have that does not run yet.

 

[Roanoker494]

I hate when that happens. These companies nowadays run their inventories off of outdated electronic catalogs instead of the old tried and true "hands on" approach.

I have one of the 180PXBD176 bars on my newer Craftsman 3.7 and it fits just as well as the original bar. The D176 bar will also bolt right onto the Roper you are rebuilding, I believe the bar studs are around a 1/2mm smaller then the bar slot but it work just fine. You could also consider changing the drive sprocket to 3/8th, my roper branded saw has the 3/8th so I know the sprockets are out there somewhere.

Keep a eye on your mailbox because you have a package coming with a few parts you may find useful.

 

[Opihi59]

I'm sure to be trekking out to the mailbox like a little kid waiting for his Captain Midnight secret decoder ring to show up.....woo hoo!!

I've struck out on the 180PXBD082 bar after calling multiple places that advertise it and even have price listing for it, I suppose I'll be modifying a D176 mount style bar and hoping those 74 link chains I bought will work on it. I understand that D176 mount bar to use 72 link chain. Just annoying. Now if anyone happens to have a reasonably serviceable 180PXBD082 bar they wouldn't mind parting with, please send me a PM so we can work out details.

If there are any part numbers of a 3/8 style sprocket that will slip onto my PTO in place of the 0.325 I presently have, I'd really like to hear from anyone with this information. Source for same would be great as well, or any other tidbits of knowledge I can sponge up from the forum.

 

[Opihi59]

Alrighty then, I put the D176 mount style bar on the Roper that requires the D082 style bar. Of course it fits fine. I put one of my brand squeaky new (20BPX074G) 74 link chains on it, and it is fine for length, even has planny adjustment room if it stretches to keep properly snug. Then I took that same combination and put it on the other Roper (917.353770) and it fits fine. Supposedly the D082 saw needs the 74 link, and the XXX770 saw with the D176 mount and that bar is supposed to take a 72 link chain. I don't see that need. Both saws fit that bar fine, the chain is fine on both saws. I don't get why Oregon tells me otherwise. So I am still game for a 180PXBD082 bar just since it is "original," but also in the market for a 180SKBD176 bar which although I have been told is still available, I cannot find it and Oregon tells me they don't have it.

So, being the typical black hole of need you have all become accustomed to seeing me as, I am in the market for either bar, and if someone does know where to get that 180SKBD176 bar, I'll buy one new and get it sent out here from somewhere.

I did find a gentleman in the MA area with one, and see if I can work out a way to secure that item; we are communicating by email at this point and he likely recognizes me for a lunatic. I suppose, he's not too far off with that impression.

On a more celebratory note, I did get a nice package in the mail today from 67L36driver, a starter sprocket!!!!! I will work on that this weekend and let you all know how it comes out, with pictures as well. There is a subtle difference, the "new" one has three prongs for the starter pawls to hook into, while my orig has 4. Honestly I do not think this matters at all, as that saw was used for a long time with only one starter pawl instead of 2 with out a problem, unless it was one perhaps of balance. More to come later.

Here is what the 917.353750 looks like, (the one I am working on in this thread) followed by its D082 style mount, followed by a modified bar to fit it. You can see the oil holes were drilled and the end clipped off. You can also see the oil hole in the channel so I think this was actually a modified D176 bar made to work on this saw.

Now here is the 917.353770 saw, followed by its D176 style mount, followed by the proper bar for it. You can see the oil hole in the channel.

The difference? Note where the oil holes are. The first saw D082 oils into the thru hole in the bar, which is closer to the mount studs, while on the D176 mount, the oil hole is further away from the studs, and seeps into the weep hole drilled into the channel.

 

[67L36Driver]

I know you're looking for an 18" bar, but I just purchased a Fores-ter 20" b&c (sprocket nose) for my Skilsaw 1645/Power Machinery 340 for 28 USD. The number is M205070-X replaces Oregon 200SLHD176.

Modifying stuff is why they make drill motors and bits.

 

[Opihi59]

So I haven't been able to do much more on the Roper, I kept breaking the starter cord. The current pulley had been repaired in the distant past, but had worked well that way for a long time. However it had a sharp edge that kept shearing the cord. I started working on a fix by putting in a 1/4" brass grommet as below.

Looked like it should work but ended up putting it aside as 67L36Driver mailed me a "new" starter pulley which came in the mail earlier this week. I believe I'll set the grommet fix on the shelf and forge ahead with the new pulley. Only difference I note is that it has 3 engagement parts for the starter pawls, and the orig had four. New one:

Old one:

I am going to work on installing the new pulley, I can't see any reason for it not to work, it appears to engage fine on initial application.

 

[67L36Driver]

What you can do with the 'take apart' pulley is make a shim out of a plastic coffee can lid to narrow it up to fit the rope better.

 

[Opihi59]

So I have the new pulley in from 67L36driver and the saw running. It seems to idle well now, but at WOT there is a "skip" of sorts. I figure it needs a bit more diddling with, but I got distracted by my 2 new 55's in another thread, and teaching son #3 more driving lessons. There is always tomorrow to annoy the neighbors with screaming saws.