Backup heating source is Propane, school me, please

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shelbythedog

shelbythedog

ArboristSite Operative
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Background: Bought house in 4/2009, no wood heat, propane tank from company A in yard and almost empty, call company A, setup account, and buy gas for remainder of '08/09 season and all of '09/10. For '10/11, still no wood heat, company A says they will raise my rate +/-$.40/gallon, and add service charges. I decline company A's service, and hire company B. Company B has a great rate/gallon and sets a new 500 gallon tank for free. Wood heat installed 3 months later (12/2010), burn 25% of originally anticipated propane during '10/11 heating season. Now, company B is threatening a rental fee on their tank due to low usage.

My question is, am I better off paying the rental fee, or should I let them have the tank back (and buy the gas back)? If I let the tank go back I would likely buy a 100# tank and have it filled at the RV/party rental place. My annual propane usage is is only a couple hundred gallons at this point, enough to keep me in hot water and nothing else.
 
We are in the exact same position, but our water and cook stove is propane. We just pay the fee on our 500 gallon tank which is $50 a year.
 
If I had a rental fee, I'd probably go the 100 gal tank route, but that's because I hate crap like that.

But that's probably because we don't have anything that runs off of propane but the furnace and that only gets kicked on if we leave town in the winter.

We've only used (no lie here) 60 gallons in the last two years out of our 500 gal tank. And that includes about a month of using it as primary heat source while our stove was being installed.
 
Same boat here, 75 dollar fee on the 500 gal tank, but they can install a 250 gallon tank and there is no fee. So maybe the company has something like that.

I know the "propane man" is not a popular person on this forum, but they are a business that need to make money just like anybody else, just like all the guys here selling wood.
Those 500 gal tanks are not cheap to buy or cheap to maintain, so I can't really fault them for the service fee.

If you are getting a good price and are other wise happy with the company i would stay put and pay the service fee. I would rather pay it have the full tank for a year rather than lugging the the 100 cylinder to the RV place to fill it up.
:)

Besides the gas is prob just going to go up so you fill up the 500 (or 250) and it lasts you a year or so, whose to say that the next time you fill up the 100 pound cylinder you don't end up paying the service fee in more expensive gas, and you had to take it to be filled to boot. :)
 
Keep the opinions coming, everyone. I'm not one to fault a company for making money, but I have to look out for number one, and currently he isn't the owner of any propane companies.

upsnake you make some valid points, but to a guy who c/s/s 12+ cord of wood for himself, and c/s another 8 cord for his parents this year, driving a 100# tank into town maybe 3-4 times a year on the weekly errand trip doesn't seem like a lot of work.

If I burn 200 gallons of propane a year and have a $50 rental fee, thats like paying $.25 a gallon use fee.

Currently, I'm leaning toward the small, self-owned cylinder, unless I can find someone to plant a tank in the yard just to have the pleasure of selling me gas.
 
With more than 40 years of propane buying experience I'll say with absolute certainty the only way to survive is OWN YOUR OWN TANK!

1, you can bid vendors against each other, and they will bid hard

2, There are now fuel brokers who will underbid any supplier/ gallon, and one of the suppliers who gave you a bid will deliver the propane.

3, In the propane industry there is what is considered acceptable loss in stored gas. EVERY tank leaks. That explains why you buy propane metered INTO the tank.

4, It's generally a serious DOT offense to transport larger than 40# cylinders unless the vehicle is DOT compliant and the driver has HazMat certification. Believe me, YOU will get busted!

5, The camper place charges at least $1.00 per gallon for filling your tank
The Propane company can and will fill your 100# tank at lower cost, and many of the bastards will call DOT as you leave.

6, IF you want to drift fill your own 10, 20, 30 and 40# tanks you need at least a 500 to fill from, smaller tanks do not have liquid ports.

7, Most States have energy supply websites showing both historic pricing and seasonal trends. Use it to buy propane at the low point in your area.
READ the contract! Look for "anticipated usage charge" That translates to you pay if you don't use as much propane as the vendor thought you might.

8, Propane companies don't give a damn about customers..
Only talk to Amerigas if you own the tank and you're taking bids.

I SURVIVED the Level Propane War, and came away a winner.
 
Propane

Buy your own tank and shop around for the best price per gallon and fill your tank and use what ever you need for the season:smile2: I recommend a 500 gallon buried tank. Buy you fuel in the summer when prices are lower. Any time your low and need a few gallons you can call around and get a few gallons delivered at the cheaper price for the little amount you need.
 
fdoberman said:
With more than 40 years of propane buying experience I'll say with absolute certainty the only way to survive is OWN YOUR OWN TANK!

1, you can bid vendors against each other, and they will bid hard

2, There are now fuel brokers who will underbid any supplier/ gallon, and one of the suppliers who gave you a bid will deliver the propane.

3, In the propane industry there is what is considered acceptable loss in stored gas. EVERY tank leaks. That explains why you buy propane metered INTO the tank.

4, It's generally a serious DOT offense to transport larger than 40# cylinders unless the vehicle is DOT compliant and the driver has HazMat certification. Believe me, YOU will get busted!

5, The camper place charges at least $1.00 per gallon for filling your tank
The Propane company can and will fill your 100# tank at lower cost, and many of the bastards will call DOT as you leave.

6, IF you want to drift fill your own 10, 20, 30 and 40# tanks you need at least a 500 to fill from, smaller tanks do not have liquid ports.

7, Most States have energy supply websites showing both historic pricing and seasonal trends. Use it to buy propane at the low point in your area.
READ the contract! Look for "anticipated usage charge" That translates to you pay if you don't use as much propane as the vendor thought you might.

8, Propane companies don't give a damn about customers..
Only talk to Amerigas if you own the tank and you're taking bids.

I SURVIVED the Level Propane War, and came away a winner.
Click to expand...

amerigas in this area,,will eat you alive. so will agvantage,which used to be FS. we have another supplier in a town 20 miles away,,that gives the absolute best prices,and they are quality people...
 
shelbythedog said:
Keep the opinions coming, everyone. I'm not one to fault a company for making money, but I have to look out for number one, and currently he isn't the owner of any propane companies.

upsnake you make some valid points, but to a guy who c/s/s 12+ cord of wood for himself, and c/s another 8 cord for his parents this year, driving a 100# tank into town maybe 3-4 times a year on the weekly errand trip doesn't seem like a lot of work.

If I burn 200 gallons of propane a year and have a $50 rental fee, thats like paying $.25 a gallon use fee.

Currently, I'm leaning toward the small, self-owned cylinder, unless I can find someone to plant a tank in the yard just to have the pleasure of selling me gas.
Click to expand...

get your own tank.. check a salvage yard,if they have one of the tanks, on of the back of a pickup, that used to have propane for fuel. they will near give those away. and most of them were 80 gal wet fill,which would be approx 65 gal of propane...may or may not take care of your needs. these are filled by the tanker truck..100 lb propane,is approx 23 gallon...
 
Find your own tank

Just shop around you can find them. A big tank you own means you are free to look for the best fill up prices, plus, you can get spiffy emergency generators you can hook to one as well. They also make dual fuel fridges and freezers, so even if you don't have a generator, you can switch to propane and keep your food fresh in times of extended power outage.

I have a big one in the yard that is my boss's, but I also have four five gallon tanks and two of the hundred lbers that I own, got them when I was living in our RV.
 
At 300 gal per year I was getting hit with all kind of fees, and paying winter rate. We ended up buying our tanks (2x 250s) that were sitting on our property. A little cheeper than new tanks and I did not have to pay a install fee or buy new line or reg. Our tanks and reg. were only a few years old so that was not an issue for me. I pre buy 300 gals in the summer (at the pre-buy rate) and call them when I need a fill. Like others typed, a 100 lb tank does not hold many gals. of LP, most places will not fill them and the hardware store is super expensive per gal.

I don't feal Im takeing it to the "LP Man" but in another year I will be saving $300 to $600 a year depending on the market price. I don't see it comming down any time soon.

Ted
 
Understand that if you rent the tank from a supplier and there comes a time when you have an LP shortage (actually one or a made up one take your pick) the suppliers will fill all of their tanks first and if there is any left in the truck maybe you will get some. What normally happens in my neck of the woods is you have a real cold snap along with the farmers using a ton to dry corn and the supply chain gets thin and there you have it. With that said I have owed my tank for 30 years and having never burned wood have always contracted my LP so I do not have to put up with market swings or the stupid speculation crap. I do summer fill as I did this year for $1.82 a gallon (Local Coop Elevator). With my new ODW this year I was in a bind how to handle this year as to weather to book any at all or hedge and do a little. The local supplier was really helpful and let me contract half my amount that I normally do and if I did not use any or all of it I would not have to pay the $.10 over book charge. (You have to book with in 10% of the amount that you use or pay the penalty) As for you question I would buy a 200 gallon tank and summer fill it and judging by what you are say you will use in a year you would at most have to fill it one more time during the heating season. Good luck on which ever way you decide to go.
 
I have a 1K gallon underground tank that takes 800 gallons to fill. I typically use 4 to 600 gallons a year for secondary heat, my grill (never ran out of propane in a middle of a cook), cook stove and my garage heater when I got work to do there. Everything was installed by a licensed professional. All the gas appliances I have right now will run without electricity.

Eventually I will get a tankless hotwater heater, gas clothes dryer, freezer and a LP standby generator.
It is a bit more expensive however like many mentioned above, with that kind of reserve, I wait and shop for the best prices.

I am willing to pay for the 'convenience' factor as I survived a couple of ice storms and swore to myself I will never be dependent on electricity alone.

That is priceless.
 
Anyone in central MI have the name/number for a place to purchase a +/-200 gallon tank? The only prices I have gotten thus far are $599 for a 120 gallon and $799 for a 330 gallon tank+regulator.
 
suck it up and buy a tank. 500 gallon for around $600, They can be found about everywhere. you will have to watch running a furnace on a small tank...like a 100lb tank, if you get low on propane it can soot up and not heat properly, i try not to let mine get below 15% on a 500 gallon tank. (whick isnt a problem since i put in an add-on furnace) my old propane company wanted $125 a year rent if i didnt use two full tanks a year. i didnt take me long to buy a tank and have them come and get theirs. imo
 
shelbythedog said:
Anyone in central MI have the name/number for a place to purchase a +/-200 gallon tank? The only prices I have gotten thus far are $599 for a 120 gallon and $799 for a 330 gallon tank+regulator.
Click to expand...

check out the Auto-Rv ads, if not in michigan i know in the Indiana ones they advertise 500 gal- $600 and 1000 gal-$1200

AutoRV.com - Buy and sell used vehicles and more

you can get both regualtors at a welders supply shop. about $30 each
 
Your supplier will probably sell you the current tank. I got tired of paying whatever my
supplier chose to charge. The supplier was happy to sell me the installed tank at a good
discount. They didn't have to move it and still had a shot at my business. Just be sure get
a bill of sale and hang on to it. Any new supplier will require proof of ownership.

The bidding wars have worked well for me. I later installed a 1000 gal. underground tank to
take advantage of off season pricing and quantity discounts. I only buy fuel every 2-3 years.
The savings paid for the tanks long ago. Propane will store for years, but I rotate tanks
because the rotten egg smell goes away if stored too long.

Nothing makes you sleep well on a windy cold night like a full propane tank and a good woodpile.
 
I bought my own tank, 500 gallon bran new, the guy brought it out, installed it with the regulators and line for $1000.00.
Don't have to worry about it if I don't buy any gas.
I usually have it filled every two years.
 
Lots of good comments...in my case...been there done that...they can kiss my... money away..yup almost said something else.
Bought 2 100# cylinders and have never had that issue since.Having wood as my primary heat source is great.

Some of the games those gas companies play are just nuts.
I had a customer once up in the mountains. She lost her hubby a few years back and didn't have a bunch of cash to pay for propane or for the tank rent. I advised her to go to the 100# tanks...when she told that propane co. to come get their tank...they said it would cost too much to go up on her mountain and that when she needed some gas to just call....sometimes it's all a bluff!
 
I bought a 1000 gl. used tank for $300. If you tell the propane supplier that you own your own tank they will usually give you a discount.
I usually get the best price on propane in the last two weeks of June. The price really spikes December through February. With the larger tanks you can fill up once a year.
 

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