While Shutting off Your Chain Saw

[Bruce Hopf]

A number of years ago, probably over 30, I can remember my Great Uncle, who was a General Mechanic, and could fix just about anything built, tell my Dad to pull out the starter rope out about 6", and hold it lightly between two fingers before turning off his saw. So my Dad tried it. He couldn't believe how much recoil, and torque there was, when he turned off his saw.
My Great Uncle said to my Dad after he shut off his saw, "Now you know how much force is put on your starter, with the handle not being pulled out, and how much extra ware and tear your starter has to go through when shutting off your Chain Saw".
Ever since then, when my Dad shut off his saw, He'd pull out the starter rope, held it lightly between two fingers, and turned off his saw. When my Dad taught me how to use a chain saw at the age of 15, he instructed me to do the same.
7 years ago I worked part time in a dealership for Stihl, and a customer came in with a chain saw, with his plastic starter mechanism in pieces. It was an old Pioneer Partner. My boss was able to find another starter for his saw, and I told him to pull out his starter rope, before he shut off his saw.
There was another customer there getting his chain sharpened, and I was almost finished with his chain saw, ask me what was the difference. I told nicely, to wait until I Finnish his saw, I'd show him. When I was finished, I started up his chain saw and had him shut off his saw, like I instructed him to. When he shut off his saw he he was impressed, and was going to shut it off this way from now on, because his starter was made of plastic as well.
So I thought I'd share this with all you guys and gals out there. If you already do, that good, and if you don't, give it a try. How knows. Maybe you will like to try and save your starter. After all, it's a cheap repair. Bruce.

 

[pioneerguy600]

A number of years ago, probably over 30, I can remember my Great Uncle, who was a General Mechanic, and could fix just about anything built, tell my Dad to pull out the starter rope out about 6", and hold it lightly between two fingers before turning off his saw. So my Dad tried it. He couldn't believe how much recoil, and torque there was, when he turned off his saw.
My Great Uncle said to my Dad after he shut off his saw, "Now you know how much force is put on your starter, with the handle not being pulled out, and how much extra ware and tear your starter has to go through when shutting off your Chain Saw".
Ever since then, when my Dad shut off his saw, He'd pull out the starter rope, held it lightly between two fingers, and turned off his saw. When my Dad taught me how to use a chain saw at the age of 15, he instructed me to do the same.
7 years ago I worked part time in a dealership for Stihl, and a customer came in with a chain saw, with his plastic starter mechanism in pieces. It was an old Pioneer Partner. My boss was able to find another starter for his saw, and I told him to pull out his starter rope, before he shut off his saw.
There was another customer there getting his chain sharpened, and I was almost finished with his chain saw, ask me what was the difference. I told nicely, to wait until I Finnish his saw, I'd show him. When I was finished, I started up his chain saw and had him shut off his saw, like I instructed him to. When he shut off his saw he he was impressed, and was going to shut it off this way from now on, because his starter was made of plastic as well.
So I thought I'd share this with all you guys and gals out there. If you already do, that good, and if you don't, give it a try. How knows. Maybe you will like to try and save your starter. After all, it's a cheap repair. Bruce.

Well Bruce that is a new procedure that I have never heard of. How does that work in general as the starter is not engaged at any time unless the pullcord is pulled out,so when the saw is shut off and the pullcord is left in its place it is not contacting the flywheel in any way.Can you elaborate on how this would save your starter? I work on all types of chainsaw starters from the old Fairbanks Morse types to all the factory mechanisms used on chainsaws and can`t get my head around what you have said in your post. Its intriguing but I can`t visualize or figure it out so can you give more info. Man I really like a mystery and problem solving as the everyday stuff I come across is getting a little boring. Pioneerguy600

 

[Ole Farmerbuck]

A number of years ago, probably over 30, I can remember my Great Uncle, who was a General Mechanic, and could fix just about anything built, tell my Dad to pull out the starter rope out about 6", and hold it lightly between two fingers before turning off his saw. So my Dad tried it. He couldn't believe how much recoil, and torque there was, when he turned off his saw.
My Great Uncle said to my Dad after he shut off his saw, "Now you know how much force is put on your starter, with the handle not being pulled out, and how much extra ware and tear your starter has to go through when shutting off your Chain Saw".
Ever since then, when my Dad shut off his saw, He'd pull out the starter rope, held it lightly between two fingers, and turned off his saw. When my Dad taught me how to use a chain saw at the age of 15, he instructed me to do the same.
7 years ago I worked part time in a dealership for Stihl, and a customer came in with a chain saw, with his plastic starter mechanism in pieces. It was an old Pioneer Partner. My boss was able to find another starter for his saw, and I told him to pull out his starter rope, before he shut off his saw.
There was another customer there getting his chain sharpened, and I was almost finished with his chain saw, ask me what was the difference. I told nicely, to wait until I Finnish his saw, I'd show him. When I was finished, I started up his chain saw and had him shut off his saw, like I instructed him to. When he shut off his saw he he was impressed, and was going to shut it off this way from now on, because his starter was made of plastic as well.
So I thought I'd share this with all you guys and gals out there. If you already do, that good, and if you don't, give it a try. How knows. Maybe you will like to try and save your starter. After all, it's a cheap repair. Bruce.

I even read in a manual to do this. Good idea.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

I even read in a manual to do this. Good idea.

scan it to pdf, like to see it

 

[heimannm]

I think the idea is...

When the saw shuts down and the last bit of interia is spent, there is a possibility the compression will cause the saw to spin backwards part of a revolution; spin the flywheel by hand sometime and "bounce" against the compression and you will see what I mean. At that speed, the pawls will have dropped back into the starting position and catch on the starter and try to pull it backwards.

Not a problem with many types of starters where the pawls engage from the starter movement, but definitely a possible problem on the ones where the pawls are disengaged from the starter by centrifugal force.

Mark

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Well Bruce that is a new procedure that I have never heard of. How does that work in general as the starter is not engaged at any time unless the pull cord is pulled out,so when the saw is shut off and the pull cord is left in its place it is not contacting the flywheel in any way.Can you elaborate on how this would save your starter? I work on all types of chainsaw starters from the old Fairbanks Morse types to all the factory mechanisms used on chainsaws and can`t get my head around what you have said in your post. Its intriguing but I can`t visualize or figure it out so can you give more info. Man I really like a mystery and problem solving as the everyday stuff I come across is getting a little boring. Pioneerguy600

That I could never figure out my self Jerry. Mabey the saws engine kicks back if the engine is in mid compression, and pushes backwards against the started dogs. I do know, when you pull out the starter rope before you shut your saw off, you can feel the kick. If you pull out the starter a little bit, prior to shutting off your saw, I think that you will be impressed, or even shocked. Please give it a try, and maybe you can help me explain this. 30+ years is a long time for me to remember exactly what my Great Uncle was talking about, I was 10 or 12 at the time. Bruce.

 

[Fish]

If you pull on the rope of a running saw with a moving starter pawl on the
rewind pulley instead of the pawls on the flywheel, the pawl will be sticking
out with the flywheel turning.......................................

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE WANT TO DO THAT????????????

 

[Fish]

Don't try it with a Pioneer either, easy arc starter parts are getting real
hard to come by....................

 

[Bruce Hopf]

If you pull on the rope of a running saw with a moving starter pawl on the
rewind pulley instead of the pawls on the flywheel, the pawl will be sticking
out with the flywheel turning.......................................

WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE WANT TO DO THAT????????????

You are not pulling your rope out far enough for you to engage the starter dogs. Just enough to release the tension off the end of your starter rope. With your engine shut off, pull out your starter rope, until it engages the starter dogs, and see how far you have pulled out your rope, to do so. Then you will know how far you can pull out your rope, prior to the dogs engaging, when the saw is running, to shut it off. Give it a try, and let me know if it works or not. Bruce.

 

[stihl sawing]

It may help, I don't know. i have never had a problem just leaving the rope in.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

It may help, I don't know. i have never had a problem just leaving the rope in.

Give it a whirl. It might change your mind.
I wish I had your Cat here with his gun last fall. I got a Possem in the barn, and that thing killed all my cats. I had 12.
Damb thing got upstairs in the straw mows, and hid. I even set traps for it after the cats were all dead. Still havent caught the thing. Bruce.

 

[Fish]

So how would the flywheel engage the starter dog then? Sloppy bearings?

Magic???

 

[lesorubcheek]

This is interesting. Ya know, there are several different types of starter mechanisms that are used, and I'm trying to understand how this can work.

I think its safe to say that almost all modern saws use dogs that are spring loaded mounted on the flywheel. When the flywheel isn't turning, the springs pull the dogs so they will contact the starter pulley. When the saw's running, centrifigul force is pushing the dogs away so they won't touch the pulley. If the springs are a bit weak, I could see where maybe as the flywheel is stopping, a dog may catch the pully and still be moving and therefore cause some damage. The real fix here though is to put new springs on the dogs and make sure the dogs are free moving on their mounting posts.

I also think its safe to say that most (not all but most) older saws used the Fairbanks-Morse mechanism. The flywheel has a cup mounted on it. The starter has dogs that push outward and bite the cup as you pull the recoil. As the recoil is release, the dogs retract. I can's see how as the flywheel stops there would be any contact between the cup and dogs, unless something is loose and chattering.

Homelite 330s and Pioneer P40s use a ratcheting plastic gear mechanism on their starter. As you pull the starter, a slider is forced down to contact the flywheel. As it retrachs, the slider pulls up away from the flywheel. With this type starter, there's more chance that yo'll cause unwanted contact with the slider if you pull out the recoil. I can't see how this trick could help here at all.

Homelite 150s use a an overrunning bearing. The bearing is mounted on the flywheel and the pully rides inside the bearing. The bearing spins freely in one direction, but bites in the other direction. I can't see how pulling out the starter rope would make any difference here either.

Homelite used a few other types of ball drive starter mechanisms, and I'm sure other manufacturers have used all types of unique mechanisms. Of the ones I know of, about the only case I can think of where it may help to pull out the starter would be a case of weak dog springs on the conventional "starter dogs on the flywheel" type mechanism. Maybe I'm wrong, and again this is just me thinking out this scenario. It'll be nice to hear other's thoughts on this topic.

Dan

 

[Dieseldriver]

LMAO!

 

[stihl sawing]

I gotta go with fish on this one, I can't see the dogs engaging untill you pull on the rope.

 

[OilHead]

I can see no benifit doing it . If anything it will cause unnessary wear to the pawls & may actually crack or completly blow out the area. As far as the saw turning backwords 180 degrees after it has reached 0 rpm on shut down doesnt matter there isnt enough inerita left to bend the connecting rod.

 

[Taxmantoo]

Easy enough to test.

Next time I've got a clutch cover off, I'll rotate the crank backwards via the clutch nut. If the starter doesn't bind, I'll know that the OP is just telling me to #### up my starter by engaging it with the engine running.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

I gotta go with fish on this one, I can't see the dogs engaging untill you pull on the rope.

Explain this then, In some of the new saws operators manuals, it instructs this procedure. It's very obvious that you and fish are Buddy, Buddy, and are a real pair of INSTINES.

 

[Taxmantoo]

I wish I had your Cat here with his gun last fall. I got a Possem in the barn, and that thing killed all my cats. I had 12.

Bruce, the local coons and 'possums come up on the deck and raid my cat food. The cats will sit there, sometimes not 4' away, and watch. Are you sure Pogo killed the cats?
Anyway, if there's nothing alive in the barn that you want to keep alive, do a google search for fly bait coke. I'm not sure if Pogo would drink it, but it's worth a try.

 

[stihl sawing]

Explain this then, In some of the new saws operators manuals, it instructs this procedure. It's very obvious that you and fish are Buddy, Buddy, and are a real pair of INSTINES.

Don't know what instines means,LOL Don't sound good. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, Just i don't see how it can help, I'm no expert so i could be wrong. But i have never done it and have never had any trouble with a starter rope other than getting old and rotton.